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View Full Version : decide it's fate....vote now...



cresshead
04-17-2005, 09:40 AM
well i'm having such a terrible time with xsi that i've decided it "must go"...
this app just winds me up!...waste of money!....created by lab coated robots wanting humans to turn to drink!

so, what to do?....

have a vote!

nemac4
04-17-2005, 10:30 AM
:p

I know how you feel. I ordered it some time ago and and have yet to make a dent in the learning curve.

Para
04-17-2005, 10:33 AM
Here's my suggestion: Give it to me :)

EDIT: And in any case anyone got scared, I'm not switching over, I just want the actual software as in something I can hold in my hands. Don't ask me why, you don't want to know :eek: ;)

GruvSyco
04-17-2005, 10:46 AM
I voted give it away. I would legitimately love to have it. I've been fascinated by XSI for quite some time and once I have the money, I will probably buy it anyway. Having said that though....

I think you should keep it and learn it. There are no rules in life that say you have to use just one app and, you may be able to do some stuff in it that you cannot in LW.

ericsmith
04-17-2005, 10:51 AM
Many years ago I was a Strata Studio Pro fanatic. I bought a copy of Lightwave primarily for a junior partner in my business that liked it better than strata. But I just couldn't get into its way of doing things. For a while, I would tinker with it, but I never really got anywhere. Then I decided to start a project that required some real character animation--something that Strata just couldn't even come close to pulling off. I realized I had to commit to Lightwave. So I took the manual with me on a weekend gettaway and read it cover to cover. The paradigm finally started to sink in. I'm now a Lightwave fanatic (Not a fanboy, I'm not that unobjective), and I haven't touched Strata in years.

The moral is, If you own XSI, don't just tinker. Read the manual cover to cover. Figure out where they were coming from when they designed the workflow. It's true that most software companies are not actively involved in working in the industry, but they're not that unconnected either. Their goal was to make things easier for you, not frustrate you.

This is true for just about every software company. So this is not an endorsement for XSI (I've barely looked at the program). But if you already paid for the tool, it seems a shame to just toss it.

I'd also like to clarify that while my story left Strata in the dust, with the bigger packages like Lightwave, Maya, XSI etc., there's more room to use several packages for their strengths.

Eric

mouse_art
04-17-2005, 10:53 AM
XSI Foundation license is not transferable.

Stick with it, learn it, and have fun with it, maybe buy PointOven (when 1.4 is available).

mgreenway
04-17-2005, 10:55 AM
Ask them for you money back! Tell them why.

Klowno
04-17-2005, 10:56 AM
What kind of problems are you having with it? Imo it was the best program I have ever bought. If you are having difficulty with the animation tools i cannot say anything cause I do mostly modeling with xsi(though everyone says the animation side is excellent). But modeling is great in xsi, so maybe it's that you haven't really given it a chance and just got bored when evertything didn't work the Lightwave way?

I would say stick with it, maybe some day you wan't use mental ray for rendering
or something else from xsi. You cannot transfer the license anyways so actually
there's no other alternatives than to keep it. Maybe if you delete the serial key
info from your computer and mail xsi to unregister you as a user so you wouldn't be
able to get the serial anymore might do it to really get rid of it :)

cresshead
04-17-2005, 11:23 AM
well got a few votes in.... :p



overall it's just too slow and the workflow is all over the place... try the tutorial books...i have..they make a simple task really loathsome and longwinded...

if i could see some sort of "point" to keep it installed i will but right now i'd feel better if i took the books, dvd's and box and set them on fire!

i've had this for 9 months and have nothing to show for it as output...doing anything in this app is...well..not happening...maybe if it were my only app i would get with it..but in truth if that was my only 3d app i'd drop 3d...and go stack shelves in a supermarket........ :rolleyes:

i really can't express how poorly i think about this app....and yet i have seen some good stuff done with it..so it's capable for sure but "not for me" i prefer something i look at as a logical application....

such as...

lightwave
3dsmax
corel draw
photoshop
premiere
iwork
i dvd
i movie
garageband
trackman [atari]

maybe i'm just too old! [42] to get this "new kid on the block".... :confused:

anyway...i feel better writing this out and love to see what is most popular
if newtek don't delete the thread!....

i may just film the most poular vote and sell the dvd's to recover my cost!
...hope it's burying it on top of a mountain! [peat bog] then someone can go dig it up s a prize! :)

hrgiger
04-17-2005, 11:26 AM
Nevermind. Nothing to see here.

drew_waylander
04-17-2005, 11:39 AM
well they have sold thousands of these Ģ300 XSI apps but i am yet to see the xsi forum flooded with newbbies work... I played with the app and faild to be impressed .... i find there is tomuch of it hidden here and there with no listing where things are ... but it is a capable app and has had some real nice work done in it ... but to learn it - it is a steeeeep curve as most of the tutorials are starting at an advanced level or asume you have come from softimarge an know where half the tools are hidden ...

result not impressed didn't buy it ...

if you can do what you need to do in the apps you know then pass this one on to someone who wants it or can make use of it.... but not me ;)

juice
04-17-2005, 11:43 AM
...learn it!!

Spend some time and read the tutorials, you will see later what you have...
The workflow XSI/Lightwave is also pretty. You will see, modelling in Lightwave is more fun and artistic, you can continue to work modeling in lightwave, importing in xsi and using really great caracter-setup, rigging and animation tools. Rendering is also really great with MR.

Klowno
04-17-2005, 11:48 AM
Maybe the reason is that you are using other 3d apps at the same time.
I bought xsi 6 months ago and it really was hard to stay away from Lightwave
when things got tough, but eventually I didn't go back to Lightwave for help
and stuff got easier pretty fast.

But anyways, do as you like ofcourse :) Too bad the license is not transferable,
maybe you should contact softimage and ask if you can give it away to someone
who want's to learn it?

juice
04-17-2005, 11:48 AM
... but to learn it - it is a steeeeep curve as most of the tutorials are starting at an advanced level or asume you have come from softimarge an know where half the tools are hidden ...


... the included tutorials are verry easy, I dont know if you have read them!

mouse_art
04-17-2005, 11:52 AM
Hmm i find XSI much more logical than max , ok thats just me. ;)

I use XSI often(RT Preview ect, or the really nice Texture Editor)) but not for rendering, for me it's LWs way more fast and intuitive (yes without nodal system).

Someday i play in LW just for fun and create quickies(surfacing/render), that is IMHO in XSI/Maya/ect not possible.


Yes, maybe fits XSI not everyones way of thinking, but it is every [your currency] worth.


For me is XSI FND. a great addition to LW (trough PointOven), i know, a big plugin ;)

Wonderpup
04-17-2005, 12:09 PM
Hi cresshead,

My first app was the old softimage, which I used for about 3 years. Then I took a job that needed Max, and for the first six months I hated it. But gradualy you get into the mindset of the thing and it starts to feel comfortable.

Then I made the move from Max to Lightwave over the last two years and I can still remember how clunky and alien Lightwave seemed to me in the begining- yet now i can't imagine going back to Max.

I think the problem really is that because all 3d apps are fundementaly doing the same thing, we subconsciously expect the workflow to be similar, and when we come across a different approach it's like smacking into a brick wall.

So I would say stick with it, and the day will come that you find youself doing something, and it will feel comfortable.

richdj
04-17-2005, 01:58 PM
Cress,

I wish i'd voted for you to eat it, at least you could have put some chilli sauce on it.. On a serious note, have you really put any time into it yourself? I know you won't let it replace your LW... But, youv'e got it, so at least spend some time in it to see if there is anything you could use it for....

Rich

prospector
04-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Streetbegger.
At least they can use the CDs for fake headlights on thier shopping carts. ;)

Tho I wanted you to use it for target practice and video how many shots ya get thru hole.
I'd buy that DVD

pauland
04-17-2005, 05:20 PM
Offer to burn it on stage at NAB..

KillMe
04-17-2005, 06:31 PM
ina similar situation myself got it tried to elarn it beyond some pretty basic modeling i found it cumbersome what i can do in 5 mins in lightwave takes me about 20mins in xsi

annaleah
04-17-2005, 06:41 PM
XSI is excellent application!!!!!SHEEEZ!!!
Keep it and someday when you feel more adventurous you may see its astounding capabilites...........or maybe not. :rolleyes:

wacom
04-17-2005, 07:13 PM
I guess if you have MR in Max already and know how to animate with LW and Max then you've got most of your bases covered. You might like to find out how well MR is intergrated into XSI vs. Max though just for kicks.

I think you just might not need XSI since you've already got two other apps running well for you- maybe if you didn't have Max I'd say stick with XSI...

Just tell me when you need my address...

NanoGator
04-17-2005, 10:27 PM
I'd consider buying it for $100.

cresshead
04-18-2005, 04:30 AM
well rich d j [a student of mine] i have given over quite a bit of time to xsi over the last 8 months....i would love to have gotten on with it but xsi just wants to raise my blood pressure...i think to really get it i need to not use lightwave and max for a solid month and only use xsi...though i have a feeling i'd be counting down the days to the end of the month to get back to a decent 3d app.

unfortinatly that's not possible due to my work commitments at SAQ international where i use max and lightwave.

i just feel closed in by it..it constrains you to a certain way of working...where as max and lightwave give you feedom to do a task anyway and ususally you can guess a method and it works..xsi is not logical in that regard and places too many hurdels in the way to a good scene/image.

the only thing i find good in xsi are the biped guides and the nurbs tools...

not exactly a long list eh? :D

MrWyatt
04-18-2005, 04:40 AM
send it to me. I will learn it in no time.

zecryan
04-18-2005, 05:19 AM
Hey i will pay 150 dollars for it, atleast it will not be a total waste, tried to send you a PM buy you are full.

mattclary
04-18-2005, 06:05 AM
I downloaded the evaluation copy and started working through tutorials when they first came out with the $495 price. I came to the same conclusion you did, Cresshead. The workflow and/or interface is just too... complicated.

I originally used Inspire before LightWave. I started working through tutorials in Dave Jerrard's "LightWave Applied 5.6" and was hooked within an hour. I had to have the missing functionality so forked out the cash for LW 6. It was even better. I just knew within an hour of using Inspire/LightWave that it worked for me.

People's brains are different, some things that work for one will not work for another. Everything in me said, "This is a great deal. XSI is industrial strength. Learn it", but after struggling for a few hours and not enjoying myself, I re-evaluated the situation. I'm not that great with LightWave, but I definitely have a good base understanding of it. I know that LightWave can do pretty much anything XSI can, and it's not like I need the diversity to get a better job (I'm a hobbiest), so why the hell should I waste time learning something that doesn't immediately give me the same satisfaction that I had when I first used LightWave?

Thus the story of the title under my avatar... :cool:

Para
04-18-2005, 06:44 AM
Just to point out, XSI Foundation license is non-transferrable so you can't sell it.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-18-2005, 09:43 AM
The render region is sweet but soooo slow relative to FPrime 1.5. An interactive Render Region using Fprime would be welcome. XSI's render passes are pretty cool too. Hopefully, 8.3 will gives us direct and indirect lighting passes.

juice
04-18-2005, 09:55 AM
The render region is sweet but soooo slow relative to FPrime 1.5. An interactive Render Region using Fprime would be welcome. XSI's render passes are pretty cool too. Hopefully, 8.3 will gives us direct and indirect lighting passes.


...fprime you have to pay extra($399), I hope lightwave make something to improve the speed of rendering in 8.3, also I hope to become a featre like the render passes from xsi...

cresshead
04-18-2005, 02:28 PM
yeah i know it's not transferable [xsi]..i'd most probably uninstall it and put the box in the loft just to keep my sanity....well some of it!..mind you we have new wheely bins for the trash so i might find a new home there!....seeing as there's a huge % saying stick with it i went thru the street scene lighting tutorial today and whilst it worked out okay in the end the trip was complicated/longwinded and somewhat painful...so after i exported the xsi scene to lightwave and rendered out a test animation [camera spin round] in lightwave just to see how different the workflow was..

xsi has you dashing all over the interface in that tutorial and they call several areas the same name so you have to look in three places to find which one is the right one..maybe that's a fault of the written tutorial book [from softimage] but it's sure confusing and many a time i counted to 10 to stop me f rom control+alt+deleting the app in mid session....

this is the scene btw...

one imported to lightwave and one in xsi

cresshead
04-18-2005, 02:34 PM
xsi scene imported to lightwave

cresshead
04-18-2005, 02:38 PM
quick render from lw..not surfaces remember!...just 3 lights..using the same prjector map though.

lardbros
04-19-2005, 07:41 AM
I'm with you too cresshead... i HAD to use XSI for my degree in my second year, i almost cried. I asked why they only had lightwave 6, and their reply was "Isn't lightwave old software?" which really got my back up. In the end i modelled the scenes i had to do in lightwave and imported them into XSI during the lessons. The tutors were well impressed with the speed of my learning :D . Trouble is when i noticed that a couple of points weren't welded together i couldn't find a weld point tool ANYWHERE. Even making a polygon was the most arduous task i have ever tried to undertake. It may have all changed by now, i haven't touched it for 3 yrs, and it wouldn't be used so much by the big studios if it wasn't up to the job.

I find most other softwares selection tools for modelling pretty basic, whereas lightwave's outshine everything i've used.

Oh yeah, i voted for you to eat it... definitely not a square meal, but with some salad and potatoes it may be okay. Now, lightwave and it's manual would last a family of six for a week or two!! :D

mattclary
04-19-2005, 07:45 AM
seeing as there's a huge % saying stick with it

Cress, the number is bigger than all the rest, but when you do the math, 61.8% are saying (in some form), "Trash it". ;)

juice
04-19-2005, 07:58 AM
Cress, the number is bigger than all the rest, but when you do the math, 61.8% are saying (in some form), "Trash it". ;)


... hehe we are here in an lightwave specific forum, so what they would say in an other forum ??

Gwot
04-19-2005, 08:21 AM
They'd laugh at him and say that anyone who couldn't find at least a few things that set this app above all others in 9 MONTHS time probably shouldn't be doing 3d for a living. But this is a LW forum, and so a retarded poll that only allows for a "trash it" type answer for 90 % of the options is allowed to fly.

Chuck
04-19-2005, 08:38 AM
They'd laugh at him and say that anyone who couldn't find at least a few things that set this app above all others in 9 MONTHS time probably shouldn't be doing 3d for a living. But this is a LW forum, and so a retarded poll that only allows for a "trash it" type answer for 90 % of the options is allowed to fly.

[failed attempt at humor removed :)]

Seriously, if you can't have a sense of humor about the matter, at the least you can refrain from gratuitously insulting someone you disagree with. And that's not a request, James, that's an advisory from the moderation staff.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-19-2005, 09:48 AM
XSI is pretty sweet...for me to poop on.

I kiddd...I kidddd.

Gwot
04-19-2005, 09:56 AM
Sorry, but I don't find it funny anymore. I don't come to this forum for this stuff. I don't appreciate it in any other forums I visit for any other software I use so I'm voicing my opinion on it here.

Since I use XSI and several other apps about as much as I use LW I'll ignore your little dig there too Chuck. I would think that MODERATING this forum to weed out the bad threads and ANTI-LW posts would apply just as much with ANTI-(insert app name) as well. It's unproductive and unprofessional and does nothing to promote community. I have a great sense of humor, but as someone who sees that there's more to life than LW, this is just bottom of the barrel.

Do what you gotta do though... keep the peace, keep this thread - whatever. I'll save you the trouble of having to moderate ME any further by not coming back.

RexVectar
04-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Eat it, Eat it, Eat it.

Not that I wish you ill health, nor am I saying XSI is bad, its just that I've never seen anyone eat a software CD (or any cd for that matter) and accompanying manuals before :D

Oh yeah and if by some slim chance the poll turns and you do decide to consume, please post pics :p

mattclary
04-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Sorry, but I don't find it funny anymore.

I went back and re-read this thread agin to make sure I hadn't missed something. Overall, the conversation has been pretty positive, with a few jokes about burning it at NAB or eating it. Most of us are having a serious conversation about a piece of software, and no one has said it sucks.

XSI is well respected by most people who know anything about 3D, in my opinion, but it's just not for everyone. No need to get angry about that. I would postulate that Newtek would even tolerate threads about m*d* if they could stay civil, which so far this thread has.

Chuck
04-19-2005, 11:53 AM
Sorry, but I don't find it funny anymore. I don't come to this forum for this stuff. I don't appreciate it in any other forums I visit for any other software I use so I'm voicing my opinion on it here.

Since I use XSI and several other apps about as much as I use LW I'll ignore your little dig there too Chuck. I would think that MODERATING this forum to weed out the bad threads and ANTI-LW posts would apply just as much with ANTI-(insert app name) as well. It's unproductive and unprofessional and does nothing to promote community. I have a great sense of humor, but as someone who sees that there's more to life than LW, this is just bottom of the barrel.

Do what you gotta do though... keep the peace, keep this thread - whatever. I'll save you the trouble of having to moderate ME any further by not coming back.


The conversation has had plenty of folks having positive things to say about XSI, and suggesting that he keep the package. None of those messages drew a warning. You specifically directed an insult at a person. If you can't see the difference between expressing a positive or negative opinion on a piece of software and getting personal about the matter by insulting someone for having a different opinion on the matter than you do, then you need to learn to do so, because getting personal about it is what's unproductive and unprofessional.

Apologies that you didn't like my joke - and it was a joke, not a dig. I'll remove it, however.

cresshead
04-19-2005, 12:09 PM
just to keep this on a positive thread... [i hope to..really i do!]

personally, i don't seem to be having a great time with xsi..lots of others do of course...
my main observation is that with myself and 5 of my student's who purchased xsi
last summer only one seems to be getting on with it to any great degree...the others are either dabbling in it but using another 3d app for college based creation or some have gone quite silent about their results from it...
the person who seems to be doing best, dropped all other apps and only
used xsi..he then made some headway with xsi as he took time out to get to grips with it...having said that good news he's just bought lightwave 8.0 thru the
upgrade promo that newtek is running currently...he's aware of how lightwave can be of great benefit to him in addition to xsi..

still, i've yet to see anything stunning from what any of my student's have created with it in the last 9 months..it is capable and it's been used to create pinichcio 3000 dvd etc a total xsi gig...looked okay to me and was animated as well as bionicle at least [maya film]...

the price is very tempting but i do feel that there's alot of xsi foundation "owners" out there but not so many "users"..if you see what i mean..

i will continue to dabble in it as i have paid out my cash...i just hope they [avid]
use some of the user feedback to make it a more approachable app in the future
versions or they may lose their current "owner base" to other 3d apps overtime.

also note that some of the poll choices are not throw away...ie sell it on ebay, give it away as well as stick with it....so 3 out of ten are sort of positive in that i'm not advocating to destroy the app in a rage but pass it on to someone who may actually give it a good caring home.... :)

Doran
04-19-2005, 12:20 PM
This should be a two choice poll... keep it or get rid of it.

Chris S. (Fez)
04-19-2005, 12:20 PM
"Apologies that you didn't like my joke - and it was a joke, not a dig. I'll remove it, however."

Well, I thought it was funny :).

Signal to Noise
04-19-2005, 12:29 PM
While I personally love XSI and think it's an app anyone should try to stick to I voted "Give it away" in your case. That is if you are absolutely sure you don't want to pursue learning XSI.

Maybe you know a poor kid or someone eager to learn 3D then you can give the software to him/her. That's what I do with any old stuff I have lying around or apps/hardware I have no longer use for. And more often than not, since it's the first thing the recipient ever owned, they tend to master it's useage in no time! Ticks me off... ;)

bobakabob
04-19-2005, 01:46 PM
It takes years to work up the learning curve of a sophisticated 3D program. Like playing guitar, you could spend the rest of your life learning. Which involves a great deal of patience, sweat and frustration.

Then, aside from pushing buttons or fingering chord shapes, there's the small matter of being creative and producing something original.

Yep, we all have our personal tastes - I was a Max user before I discovered the joys of Lightwave.

By all accounts XSI is an excellent prog, highly regarded in the 3D field. Not unlike Lightwave. It's too easy to slag software like XSI - no pain, no gain.

Bob

mattclary
04-19-2005, 01:51 PM
It takes years to work up the learning curve of a sophisticated 3D program

Gee, Cresshead, I bet you hadn't considered that, had you? :rolleyes: What is it you teach again? ;)

Chazz
04-19-2005, 02:01 PM
In the end i modelled the scenes i had to do in lightwave and imported them into XSI during the lessons. The tutors were well impressed with the speed of my learning :D . Trouble is when i noticed that a couple of points weren't welded together i couldn't find a weld point tool ANYWHERE.

God, I remember what that was like. I did exactly the same thing. :D

I'd tend towards sticking with it, I love XSI personally and I never seem to hit the wall with it. It is hard to learn, and you have to spend a lot more than a few hours with it before it starts to make sense. Coming from Lightwave it sometimes seems like things take a really long time to set up, and oftentimes XSI can be overkill for some projects.

Here's what worked for me: take something you've done in Lightwave and reproduce it in XSI. Write down all the questions you have in a notebook and make sure you answer every single one. Stuff like: "how do I put a gradient in the diffuse channel?" When I was done, I had a decent grasp on the software and a million ideas how I could make it better.

Still, if you really aren't getting results, I'd give it to someone else. It's not for everyone.

Nemoid
04-19-2005, 02:49 PM
keep it.
maybe Nt will make an offer like a cross upgrade or something!! :D

BTW you could try harder to learn it. i always think I will try it when i'll have some time. well, actually i don't find the time to start !!

something doesn't convince me totally. even if XSI is surely a good app.

however no app gives you the same feeling of Lw. especially in modelling.

if you keep XSI do your modelling in lw, and then import models into XSI for animating. you will loose no time into a slow modelling process.

cresshead
04-19-2005, 03:02 PM
re constructiveness of the poll...

it'sa nice to see some feedback from other's on this app...sometimes it feels like the emporer's new clothes story...no one will admit he's wearing "nothing" as it might cast the person saying it in a bad light...personally i'm big enough to take a few knocks from people commenting that i'm somewhat stupid and should not try "hi end" software...

to re state..xsi is quite capable..even VERY capable.

short history lesson of me!

beta tester for win 95.......go figure!

bought inspire 3d in 1998-1999....added bryce 3d, poser etc...
was a beta tester on poser 4

bought 3dsmax 2.5 and character studio 2.2 in 1999...

added a bunch of plugins for max....

upgraded to max 3.1
added character studio 3.0
upgraded to max 4.26
added BOV and was a beta tester..
added final render and was a beta tester..

turbosquid...i'm a moderator on the 3dsmax forum there...just keeping an eye on things...and uploading a few models to turbosquid and some free/cheap video tutorials on 3dsmax, lightwave etc

added lightwave7.0
then 7.5 then lightwave 8.0

was a beta tester on mimic for lightwave.

added lightscape 3.2 [ace renderer!]

got a job as a multimedia designer for 3 yrs using 3dsmax and 2d software...
went freelance for a few months
in 2002 and did some character rigging and animating for several canadian adverts....and some us dvd menu work....

started 3d graphic illustration work in 2002 for print.......

if you look in the character studio tutorials and try the first rigging tutorial you'll be using my cartoon character "wilson"...discreet contacted me to give a lo poly but difficult to rig character...rush job but it's still being used in version 7!
oh BTW i made the character in lightwave!!! ha ha!

2003...started to teach 3d at a college in nottingham along with combustion...
took on more work for printed graphic illustraions usnig 3d...3ds max and lightwave...

currently teach at a college in nottingham and another college in melton mowbray..
continue to do 3d graphic work for print and i'm on my 8th book..

by my own admission i'm no "guru" on 3d but what i'm good at is teaching this stuff to people...so i know when a app will be difficult to teach and so do not teach xsi to new users as this could put them off 3d...

i currently use lightwave as my prefered teaching app but i'm happy to also use 3ds max, bryce 3d, silo3d, wings3d, poser, combustion etc...
i do tell them about xsi and ask them to try the free version [mod tool] first if they are really interested in xsi.....

i'm about to give over some time to maya [ordered the latest ple version and dvd's]

am i best teacher out there?
...no...i'll leave that to splinegod!....and proton!

chow!

SplineGod
04-20-2005, 01:58 AM
Thanks Steve :)
Learning LW to its fullest is headache enough. XSI is powerful but there is that learning curve. Myself, I only have a finite amount of time and it seems a better use of my time to master what I have rather then sort of knowing several apps. New applications are like that new girlfriend. Shes hot until the honeymoon wears off. I constantly see those who leave for 'greener pastures' still wandering back to the old one. Ive used LW for years and theres still so much to learn about it :)

cresshead
04-20-2005, 02:24 AM
well said larry!

If i were not a lecturer in 3d i'd just stick to lightwave and max...i have to look at other 3d apps for students as they may not be able to save up for such things as maya or 3dsmax or the complete version of xsi [xsi advanced]

just last week a student wentout and bought lightwave and poser 6 and another student also bought poser 6...

i may try just teaching lightwave only for the summer period..see how that goes..if i have any complaints form students!

later!...off out to do some book 3d graphics!

Nemoid
04-20-2005, 05:39 AM
i once read a good book about XSI approach, and its XSI illuminated : character by Mesmer.
the book is freely downloadable from the web. i found it was quite helpful to understand alot of things and not only about XSI.that's why i liked it.
now maybe there are other books online at mesmer too. maybe for teaching purposes the book could be good for you? :cool:

ftp://ftp.mesmer.com/books/xsicharacter/

pauland
04-20-2005, 06:01 AM
Provided you don't get rid of it, it'll always be usefull as part of a crossgrade deal - perhaps for another LW seat..

Yog
04-20-2005, 06:40 AM
Yep, XSI probably isn't for beginners :p

My vote, give it away. You obviously haven't been happy with it since day one (going by older threads), so I guess it will just keep making you miserable if you continue to have it anywhere near you.

In fact, make your life better today by sending it to me. You would have the warm fuzzy feeling inside that comes with knowing that something that caused you so much missery is being put to useful work by someone else, and my life would be easier in that I wouldn't have to carry my dongle around with me :D

MRSWEET
04-20-2005, 08:15 AM
Ok maybe you should forget 3D.... not an attack on you but someone who teaches 3d graphics should see the power of XSI!! I use Lightwave and have produced some very nice work with it *check Newteks gallery* I have used XSI for about 3 months and have picked this software up in no time (the learning materials are very good), how you can say it lacks in all those areas you mention is a joke bud!! Lightwave is great software but for animation XSI blow's it away simple as that really. Lightwave is a great tool and I have much o love for it but you must try the modeling/texture/surface /animation/compostion tools etc very very powerful stuff!!! check this image I created in XSI in only 3 weeks with the software, this is a shot from a full animation (before anyones slags it, it was created at cost and to a time frame) also Soft have deciced to use to in there promotion of XSI which is great :-), my point here is it's the ARTIST not the tools that create nice artwork and if I can run this out in a few weeks give me a year or 2...... so please stick with it!!

Cheers

Andy Sweet
3d Artist

Sil3
04-20-2005, 08:54 AM
Iīve read the entire thread before i opened my mouth...and here it goes:

XSI is an AMAZING tool just like LW is, both of them have their strenghts and weaknessīs, since i use both, though i use more XSI now than LW.

I admit that LW has a more "organic" feel while in Modeler than XSI has, things getīs into our nerves in the begining, whereīs that tool? So many steps to do this in XSI while in LW i would take 2-3 at the most??...i know it all, iīve been there myself and at the time i couldnīt get back to LW to rescue me, my employer told me i needed to learn XSI and use it while in there.

Yah know what? It as a blessing, i focused on learning a new tool instead of constantly comparing workflows or bitching about this and that.

I do everything now in XSI for myself, at work sometimes i dig up modeler to make some Endomorphs to later export to XSI, yes LWīs endos are more funny to use than XSI ones...but itīs not all roses...

XSI complitely obliterates LW regarding animation IMO, everything i always dreamed to be in LW regarding animation, XSI has it and it works perfect just like advertised...

Im not saying with this that LW cant do it, it can, only takes lotīs of more time or tons of plugs (free or not) to be able to use functions that XSI has implemted into itīs core for years, they are production proven and made more powerfull over the years.

XSI is a powerfull beast and like so itīs workflow sometimes can become a bit overkill for some tasks, but since we have control on everything things tend to become a bit more complex, yes i know it, but there are times when that extra control is needed and i prefer to have it a bit more complex, than messing for hours (or days) to come up with solutions in other softwares that wont allow me for such control.

Dont forget that most people use XSI for power and not simply ease of use.

Right now im working on a cartoon tv series where we are reusing animations from characters to characters like we use a Video compositor, simply place those animation clips inside another character Mixer and there ya go, strech them, cut, alter itīs animation, share only the upper torso animation on one character and the other only uses the lower torso, IK and FK all mixed up with Expressions and all of this without having a baked animation with a a key on everyframe.

Not to mention none of this is destructive, pretty much like we use After Effects really.

Now if only XSI would be this powerfull in Endomorphs like LW is...but like i said on the begining of this post, all software have strenghts and weaknessīs regarding morph info and ease of organic modeling LW beats XSI IMO, not by long but still beats it.

Rendering in LW is lot easier than it is in XSI, doesnīt mean itīs better, it means itīs easier to achieve certain results than with MR, but if u need that extra control to tewak things XSI allows it, where LW...sometimes wont.

Just to summ this up, if i were u i would keep XSI and learn it well, take advantage of itīs strenghtīs over LW and do the same for LW strenghtīs over XSI, the only person that will win on this situation itīs u.

RuiFeliciano
04-20-2005, 09:55 AM
After having used LW for more than 10 years I can say that learning XSi some 1 year ago was the best decision I've done in a long time career wise.
Contrary to you, learning XSI's completely different workflow was a brise (more of a tornado, actually) of fresh air. After feeling frustraded after so many time growing trapped to LW's shortcomings and recent developing habits of aquiring 3rd party plugins with poor integration and developing half-assed features, being exposed to a whole new methodology was like discovering 3D again...in fact it was exactly like I was many years ago when I started doing 3D with Lightwave, thrilled, ectastic, thursty for knowledge.
Unlike you, and because I'm self-employed and thus I choose what application I use on a daily basis, I chose to dive deep inside XSI's way of doing things and forget Lightwave and that helped a LOT on acquiring the new concepts.
I've seen posts from you on other forums and it's obvious that you have had problems since the beginning with XSI and seems you could never detach from the "old" way of doing things and are always comparing both the "new" and "old" methodology.
I'd say, and given that you mention you have dedicated 8 months of your life already to that cause, that you're essentially fighting a loose battle...let it go..it's obvious XSI and you don't match...stick with what you know works for you and you can rely on to make your job.

I just don't know why on earth you had to bring this topic on a Lightwave-centric forum..perhaps posting this on a Softimage forum would be more appropriate since the people there could have a more educated advise for you on this matter ...but bringing it to a Lightwave forum already says a lot about where you're trying to get to...

Better luck with Maya, the XSi community will miss you :rolleyes:

Yog
04-20-2005, 10:08 AM
Uh oh .
People have stopped taking the **** out of the other program and some have actually stated they like the other program :(

I give this thread about another 5 minutes before it disappears :p

T-Light
04-20-2005, 10:31 AM
Well there you have it.

Non transferable license.
Steep learning curve.
Non logical interface
+ In Spline Gods words "Only have a finite amount of time".

Best bet
Shelve it until offers appear on LW9 and look at an extra seat.
That's maybe 8-14 months (just guessing) to decide if you want to have another play with it.

The guys that said wait for an upgrade offer have hit it on the nose. You never know when that job will come along which makes it worthwhile to have an extra license, it wouldn't be too difficult to pull a star student to one side and get them working on a job with you.

That's my penies worth.

OR
If I was that annoyed with the product then I'd be thinking ashtrays made out of genuine XSI disks is a h*ll of a talking point. :cool:

psps Make sure the label's on the underside :D

Sil3
04-20-2005, 10:37 AM
Well there you have it.

Non transferable license.
Steep learning curve.
Non logical interface
+ In Spline Gods words "Only have a finite amount of time".



- Only XSI Foundations is has a non transferable license scheme...but for 500 bucks for an almost FULL PACKAGE (only Rigid Bodies are missing from Foundations, hair doesnīt count as a integrated feature) what were u expecting?

- Steep learning curve is subjective...

- Non logical interface??? Tell me where u found XSI interface Non Logical please

- Yap those finite amounts of time i prefer to spend them doing things than getting workarounds for almost everything ;)

MRSWEET
04-20-2005, 10:44 AM
T-Light

Yours comments mean jack....you even created any char animation in LW? steep learning curve? OK so your saying char animation in LW is not a steep learning curve? it's very tricky to say the least , drawing a few polys and making them look nice in LW is all well and good but for full-on production work XSI makes life a little better for the artist

Andy

- Somone who knows -

T-Light
04-20-2005, 11:01 AM
Sil3: Non logical interface??? Tell me where u found XSI interface Non Logical please
I didn't give an opinion, the remarks regarding this product are from contributers to this thread.


MRSWEET: Yours comments mean jack....you even created any char animation in LW?
Woah there Tex, When exactly did this get personal? I've been animating in various packages since the 80's, I'm no Splinegod when it comes to animating in LW, but I can hold my own.


MRSWEET: steep learning curve? You won't get many arguments on LW's CA learning curve from me, but Newtek is addressing the issue.

Chuck
04-20-2005, 11:08 AM
MRSWeet said:
Ok maybe you should forget 3D.... not an attack on you but someone who teaches 3d graphics should see the power of XSI!!

Well, yes, it is an attack on someone, and therein lies the point. People disagree about things, and need to respect those differences of opinions. Differing about whether a tool suits you or not is particularly an area where there should be a healthy respect for human differences and where things should not be taken to a personal level.

I think we've also seen a very convincing demonstration here that that the same folks who so often malign LightWave users for sometimes defending their application of choice when those who prefer other applications speak negatively about it, in fact respond similarly when their preferred tool is found wanting by someone who has tried it out and decided it doesn't fit.

The thread has certainly served a number of purposes, for those willing to learn from it. We'll close it at this point, but no, it won't be removed.