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homeboy0358
04-07-2005, 07:16 AM
I think that Lightwave 9 will have atleast two solutions. There would be a Lightwave complete for like $1,399.98 then there would be a Lightwave Unlimited for like $1,999.98. The complete will do everying that the current Lightwave does. The unlimited version would have something like character studio for better animation abilities, IK solvers, fluid dynamics. It would also come with Sas hair not sas light. Well this is what I think do you guys have any ideas? I think in the future Lightwave will be the leader. It is already thought of as one of the best modeling packages. All it needs is a faster render that can handle radiosity better. With better 3rd party support and a better animation solution, their would be nothing that could touch it.

ravantra
04-07-2005, 07:50 AM
Why not also have LW "mini me" for $199.00. Modeler and renderer without particle and such....... :eek:

MrWyatt
04-07-2005, 07:53 AM
hear hear. the expert is talking. no offense but these kinds of threads tend to turn ugly and speculations never are more that pure waste of time.
just my 2 cents.

JohnMarchant
04-07-2005, 09:17 AM
To be honest this is the last thing i would like Newtek to do. I really like the idea that we are talking about 1 package. Everyone has the same, a solution to a particular problem will work for everyone (PC or Mac) not withstanding. If you read the forums for other packages all you get is " Well you can do it in unlimited but not complete" or "Foundation wont do this". Even Cinema 4D went that way and look at the price of that now.

Im happy the way things are, i think alot of the popularity of LightWave is because of this. Everyone can learn it, its uncomplicated and no silly little icons that you dont know what they do until you press them.

I would be more in favour of a small/medium increase in cost to offset more tools and the wizzkids who program them than have 3 or 4 versions. Let the other developers do that. I like LightWave just the way it is, yes it has problems but who does not. Bang for your buck there is no greater package out there in my opinion.

Thats My 2 Cents Anyway,

Regards John :):)

evenflcw
04-07-2005, 10:22 AM
I'm with John on this. I wouldn't like to see LW sold in different priceclasses either. The different versions would be geared at different audiences, each having a different size budget. Naturally, the company (NT) would let those with bigger budgets pay more. As I would aspire to own the full package, I think I would end up having to pay more than today. I would also have a tough time making the call of what version to get.

Karmacop
04-07-2005, 11:13 AM
One version to rule them all ;)

coremi
04-07-2005, 11:17 AM
i also think is a bad ideea to split the offer, but i would really like to see this special offers, include Lightwave plugins, instead os some external software, not very important for Lightwave. I think if there is a special offer with Maestro, Fprime, Surpasses, Smartmorph etc.. in any combination, people will be more interested than an another application.

This way Lightwave get some holes filled with this plugins and 3rd party developers sell more of their plugins, make more money and work harder to get better or new plugins to be included again in the special offer.
just my 2c

Just think u get a specisl offer to include Tree Designer, Grass Designer, Leaf Designer and random cloner, force the developer to creat some good quality videos to explain in depth how this plugins work, and make them availeble on an extra cd that comes with Lightwave, people will love it, at least i think so. I have no connection what so ever with Polas, this is just an example.

Zafar Iqbal
04-07-2005, 11:22 AM
speculations never are more that pure waste of time.
just my 2 cents.

Agree... now where did my F9 go? :confused:

mrunion
04-07-2005, 11:25 AM
Even though you're only speculating here, I vote "No". One package, one price. That's what I hope for. I don't even want to see Modeller and Layout combined! :)

retinajoy
04-07-2005, 11:32 AM
i also think is a bad ideea to split the offer, but i would really like to see this special offers, include Lightwave plugins, instead os some external software, not very important for Lightwave. I think if there is a special offer with Maestro, Fprime, Surpasses, Smartmorph etc.. in any combination, people will be more interested than an another application.
I think Lightwave bundles with thirdparty software would be a great idea. Get LW for a little more and you get X plugins, a big saving than if you had to buy all of them separately.

They could time it right. So just before Worley releases FPrime and Sasquatch 2, they could release a bundle. So the customer saves money and the 3rd party developers win, as they have product updates to upgrade to released soon after.

Dickigeeza
04-07-2005, 11:52 AM
I sit firmly in the one package one price camp.

NT if your reading this thread take note!!!

If you want modular functionality with modular pricing you'll always pay more for the full product. There is, imo a market for this - and can certainly be argued that by offering modular compents at reduced price of core package will attract wider market appeal.

As far as I know knowone offers a truly component solution, but rather core product with bolt ons.

But then who a'm I to say whats right & wrong I'm sure the NT people have researched their market to know what their customers & potential new customers want from Lightwave.

Rich

Intuition
04-07-2005, 12:43 PM
Ok, where to start?

Lightwave is great package already.

Would we like it to do more? Thats like asking someone if they like oxygen or something.

Personally, I.n M.y H.umble O.pinion, I'd like to see Lightwave and modeler add a few features.

Modeler--

I have used Z-Brush alot lately for organic modeling. Could Newtek implement something in modeler so that we can paint geometry/disp maps onto models like z-brush does? Z-Brush is powerful but its import/export usage with Lightwave don't always make for perfect execution where as a native LW funtion like this would make it seamless.

Lightwave--

In Lightwave I'd like to see a few things improved a little.

Hypervoxel usage, especially volumetric voxels, could use a little update/overhaul.

Mainly for sped up previews, something akin to F-Prime's pipeline of previs. An optimization of Viper may speed this up perhaps? I want to be able to do particle/volumetric previs builds quicker so that making an explosion doesn't always turn into comping a 2d element later in fusion or After effects.

I don't care if the final quality render time for these things is faster I'd just like a preview capability that allows this pipeline of my workflow to be more akin to setting up lighting and scenes using F-Prime.

I know this is probably difficult and I wouldn't hold it against LW for not being able to achieve it. But it is a long time wish since 6.5.

Physics seem like a big deal for LW yet, Next Limit and Dynamic realities have had nice solutions for physics for awhile. I must credit Newtek tho, as its engine has come along nicely. Yet, when you want to shatter a glass vial on the floor, third party plugs are often the way to go.

Now, there are a few different ways to look at these problems.

Does Newtek want to kill someone else's great plug in by improving its native capabilities, hence lowering sales of third party software and possibly putting them out of business, OR does Newtek want Lightwave to be more self sufficient?

I dunno.

Currently I use F-Prime, Maxwell Render, soon Kray, as solutions for radiosity lighting since LW radiosity is all but unusable to me. If you let LW calculate its radiosity with the settings turned up you get stunning results. But it takes awhile.

F-Prime has been a great solution for this.

What do I like about Lightwave that no other package does?

Its interface is very intuitive to me.

Some don't like the seperate Modeler and Layout. I do.

Oh, which brings me to another thing they need to fix.

The LW Hub is kind of a memory hack. What Modele and Layout need to do is be able to share image and object memory. If you have an object in Modeler and that same object in Layout it is loaded twice in the RAM. Images and geometry.

Having the two programs share the data would optimize memory usage, especially when I am using millions of polygon objects and hundreds of megabytes of images in a scene.

LW64bit will help me get around these problems soon.

But for now these are my current workflow roadblocks.

evenflcw
04-07-2005, 01:36 PM
Ahem... there is a feature request forum.


Personally, I would not like to see NewTek bundling any 3rd party plugins with Lightwave, as that has the potential to cause badwill amongst those 3rd party plugin developers that did not recieve the same chance - stifling development rather than encouraging it. I feel it's not NTs business to peddle 3rd party plugins. Instead, the 3rd party plugin developers should have the ability to arrange LW sales (all they would really do is forward the customer information to NT) so they could offer these bundles themselves. Didn't Dynamic Realities used to something like this?

WizCraker
04-07-2005, 06:32 PM
Sounds like another Maya user trying to offset the NewTek followers in to believing that NewTek should split Lightwave in to two different versions a cut down low grade version and one that has all the bells and whistles for a more expensive price.

Guess what NewTek is known for having the best bang for the buck, so why would they under cut themselves and screw users out of the dillusional marketing crap the other companies follow to make an extra buck? Or to make it in more clear english Why should NewTek change?

I bought in to the NewTek way around 1996, this was about the time the competition was offering their software for 10k+ per seat. NewTek only raised the price by a hundred or so in the last 9 years and yet Lightwave still packs a punch.

It may be weak in some areas but the New NewTek team has been fixing the issues. The Render is still one of the most powerful in the 3D Graphics Industry if you don't believe me don't get confused by marketing wording do you research and read the white papers, that is of course everybody can read and understand Calculus or higher mathematics in the text so that you understand why something works the way it does. Faster doesn't always mean better quality for render engines. Lightwave Render engine is still a major competetor in the industry and that is one of the reasons why so many studio use it. They know it delevers the results that they expect for the use from TV to Film.

I'm not saying the competion sucks but you can't discredit Lightwave in this area.

Char Studio's way of doing things is patented and the companies that have tried to put a copy in to their versions have either been destroyed by financial death or have lost great amounts of money for trademark and patent infringement.

Lightwaves Char tools are lacking in some areas where the competion focuses there feature set towards char animation. But Lightwave is still pretty powerful in this area as well. Every release gets better for those that do this type of animation.

Sas full is a product of Worley and will most likely never find its way into Lightwave as a native tool.

hrgiger
04-07-2005, 07:31 PM
2 versions of Lightwave is a horrible idea. Just horrible.

StevenDS
04-07-2005, 08:04 PM
I vote just ONE Lightwave.

Silkrooster
04-07-2005, 08:49 PM
I agree with WizCraker on his reply. I looked at some of the others, thinking wow a great deal, then I start looking at all the things it can not do and you need to get an upgraded package. hmmm, now its not looking as good price wise. Then you look more, and finally you decide you need the whole package, WOW it cost that much more. No thanks.
Actually I think multiple price packages are more for promotional gimmiks more than anything. I understand there are those who wish they could get LW for a couple hundred. But I don't see that happening any time soon either. LW is a professional program. If you want to make money, you need to spend it.
Silk

Mister NO
04-08-2005, 01:11 AM
There is meny things to improve, i would like to see in LW9 complete Dynamics
and improved modeler for arhitectural use with great presission.

zarti
04-08-2005, 02:15 AM
If there will be 2 LW products, then there will be also 2 different LW communities. :cool:

Matt
04-08-2005, 02:29 AM
I'm afraid I reside with the majority with this one too, a top, middle and bottom priced LW would be nightmare to manage.

The appeal of LightWave has always been high-end effects-out-of-the-box, the day they change that is the day they lose their edge.

They just need to revamp the weaker areas, speed the whole lot up - working OGL speed as well as radiosity etc.

Ideally, writing the whole lot from ground up would be the best way, but the time / cost / resources involved in doing that, it may never happen in one whole go.

Still, things are moving quicker than they ever have, so something is good!

parm
04-08-2005, 03:42 AM
Posted twice can't find delete

Parm

parm
04-08-2005, 03:50 AM
The main attraction of Lightwave for me is; it's functionality to cost ratio straight out of the box. Whatever anyone says about the relative merits of Lightwaves' tool set, workflow, etc.
On functionality to cost, Lightwave beats everything else.

Why would anyone, (customer), want a two or more tier structure?
Of course, you would get an entry level, less expensive version. But you would quickly outgrow it, thus have to spend more money on the next level of the same product.
It is very easy to see, though. Why some companies, are very attracted by the guaranteed spending path offered by this approach.

I'm sure Newtek did have a cut down version of Lightwave, ('Inspire', I think). But who would want that, when the full version of the product is so keenly priced.

No. Just one first class all round package, at one very competative price point please!


Parm

Celshader
04-08-2005, 04:07 AM
Yes, NewTek did once offer a stripped-down version of LightWave many years ago called "Inspire." It was such a roaring success that LightWave continues to be offered as one package at one price today.

Count my vote in for one good package at one good price.

Kuzey
04-08-2005, 04:09 AM
We already have two versions or did, the other one is Inspire 3D ;)

I hope Newtek updates Inspire 3D, because it has the potential to be the best consumer level product out there :)

Kuzey

Kuzey
04-08-2005, 04:12 AM
Looks like Celshader got in first :p

:D
Kuzey

Celshader
04-08-2005, 04:16 AM
Looks like Celshader got in first :p

:D
Kuzey

Nah, parm beat me to it. :D

Kuzey
04-08-2005, 04:32 AM
I just saw it :D

Well, I'm happy to come in third!

Kuzey

JML
04-08-2005, 07:09 AM
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I vote just ONE Lightwave

by the way wizcraker, what does your hexa signature mean ?
(don't have an hexa converter on this computer.. and just bored at work right now..)

jeffb
04-08-2005, 07:17 AM
My vote goes for just one Lightwave.

radams
04-08-2005, 07:47 AM
Well, I think you can hear the masses that LW's edge and community like having just one version of LW...

I agree with this opinion...(thou note there are two versions...stand alone and VT4 bundled)...The stand alone is the only one that is being supported by commercial 3rd party developers that use the external dongle to register...

What I would rather see are extensions to the feature sets as we have with third parties... that way the base core is fully updated and them vertical market solutions can be added plugin purchases if needed... But there is a common communty and functional needs that we all need to have and grow into.

So one LW does make the best marketing sense...but I would still like to see better pre viz and story board solutions and other UI options besides seeing the main core and feature set being advanced...then let the market drive other advances out side of the main core...

Cheers,

nemac4
04-08-2005, 08:19 AM
When considering Lightwave among all of the third party applications out there,.. do we really want LW to have to compete with these other companies... or perhaps improve workflow with these apps and improve lw's tools as they are able. I can't imaging LW getting to the point ( anytime soon at least ) where I will not use MotionBuilder, Zbrush, After Effects and great third party LW plugs in general.
I do think Newtek could stand to charge a bit more for major releases. After all,.. the professionals among us are happy to pay big bucks for plugs like Sas and Fprime,.. let alone cheaper plugs like Maestro or Xdof2.