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fester
04-06-2005, 09:53 AM
I just got my new G5 with the phatty 30 inch monitor - which is great, but I'm getting weird display problems within modeler. All views but the perspective view go white when I set them to wireframe. The other modes seem to work fine, but the wireframe mode doesn't work. Then if I choose just a single layer and switch the mode to something else, then back to wireframe, it displays fine. But as soon as I multi-select another layer (so there are more than one layer active) it goes white again. Any idea what the problem might be?

Captain Obvious
04-07-2005, 05:54 AM
It's not the display that's causing the problems, it's the GeForce 6800 you have that's causing it.

Ge4-ce
04-07-2005, 06:57 AM
yes, it's a known bug.

I have the same problem, but with a 23" monitor. It's indeed the card.

one thing that helps is switching on "simple wireframe points and edges" in the display settings (d) in modeler.

this solves the issue for 99% of the cases in Modeler.

you will also encounter this problem in Layout, but not often. zooming and turning makes it go away 9 out of 10.

it's annoying yes. But I don't know who or what causes te bug. (bad OpenGL from Apple, nvidia or Newtek?)

cheers!

hgoldman
04-08-2005, 10:27 AM
i encounter the same problems with lightwave but not maya so i think its something newtek could fix if they put the effort into it.
'
it appears its easier to blame someone else.

Ge4-ce
04-08-2005, 11:14 AM
i encounter the same problems with lightwave but not maya so i think its something newtek could fix if they put the effort into it.
'
it appears its easier to blame someone else.

It's not that obvious to blame Newtek for this one.

In the past, several OpenGL bugs were fixed by an update from Apple with better ATI or Nvidia drivers.

Maya and LW are both 3D apps, but they do not work the same. They use their own programming and are in such totally different. You cannot compare apps like that.

hgoldman
04-08-2005, 03:05 PM
i am not a programmer and i am naive in these matters so maybe i could be enlightended as to why one group can write code that does not cause these problems why another cannot follow suite.

i am not blameing any one. i just wonder why newtek cant fix the problem.

i sincerely would like to learn what the hurdles are.

are you saying it is impossible for the programmers at new tek to fix the problem.

why does it only happen with lightwave?

is apple going to fix the problem if lightwave is the only program that has the problem.

mrunion
04-08-2005, 05:30 PM
What he's saying is there is more than one way to "skin a cat". Being a programmer myself, I've experienced things similar to this. Using a certain toolset (in this case, OpenGL), there are multiple ways of accomplishing a task. Doing it one way or another achieves the same results. Then something comes along (a new driver) that changes things beyond your control. All of a sudden one way produces undesireable results.

If it was a NewTek bug, it's probably appear on the PC side of things as well. Since it doesn't, it's probably something related to the way Apple did the drivers. Here's thje logic:

NewTek code is the same on Apple and PC
nVidia card is the "same card" (6800) with only enough changes to "fit" Apple or PC
OpenGL drivers are different (does nVidia even release drivers for an Apple card or does Apple?)

So it's not just a "they should make this work 'cause Maya does". It's harder than that.

Ge4-ce
04-08-2005, 05:44 PM
I wish I could answer all those questions.

Believe me, I'm a bit frustraded with all those problems and bugs. But on the other hand, I learned to live with it.

Do you think Maya has no bugs? Every software has bugs. This bug is just very noticable.

I'm not a programmer either. But my logic sense tells me that there are 3 different players in this field. nVidia, Apple and Newtek.

The problem with who causes the bug?

-If a bad openGL causes the bug, Newtek cannot rewrite the OpenGL code!
-If there are bad display drivers, then nVidia should fix this, not Newtek.
-If it was a bug caused by LW, newtek had allready fixed it, believe me.

Then you might ask, why doesn't Maya have the same display problem? Well maybe because Maya uses the drivers in a different way.

Look at it as a car. you can sit down at the steering weel by entering the car via door 1. You can also enter at the passenger door, but still end up at the driving seat. There are multple possibility's to get where you want.

You might say: but taking the driving seat entrance is the easiest one. Yes, but convenience is not an issue here. So let's ignore that for a sec.

Both Alias and Newtek choose a path to get behind the driversseat. their entire software pack is based on that path. You cannot tell Newtek to pick the route that Alias took. That could potentially mean that Newtek has to rewrite the entire LW pack.

These are offcourse more theoretical approaches of the problem.

Then why does it take so long to fix this?

- If Apple or nVidia does have to fix this bug. Many other apps should be retested, to test compatibility. They don't do a good job if they fix LW, but break all other apps.

This is a time consuming trial and error process.

Bottom line: If it was a newtek problem, it would or will be fixed soon. They are also greatly depending on Apple and nVidia.

Captain Obvious
04-09-2005, 09:45 AM
Just for the sake of clarity: Apple make the Nvidia drivers for Mac OS X from source from Nvidia.

Ge4-ce
04-09-2005, 09:51 AM
Really? Oh, I didn't knew that. Always thought nVidia made the drivers in cooporation with Apple.

Well, maybe they should hand over that job to nVidia.

nVidia is more in a position to make sure their product works at maximum speed and maximum functionality.

nVidia get's the most benifit from their products to work at their best.

Apple just want it "to work". Working very good or just working is not really important. At least that's the impression I get. (could be wrong)

Captain Obvious
04-10-2005, 06:04 AM
Well, I'm not entirely sure... But fairly. Anyway, yes, it would probably be better if Nvidia made the drivers for Mac OS X.