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View Full Version : What is Tricaster's video/delay?



radams
03-31-2005, 02:19 AM
What is Network In's delay thru the Tricaster?

Can we also use audio over Network IN?

Are all outputs in sync?

Cheers,

PeteF
03-31-2005, 09:03 AM
I'd like to know this too. I just paid a visit to my dealer, and says it can pull a screen from any pc on the network, (although, from what I saw, I think you have to install something on that pc to complete the communication).

Unfortunately, this thing is still in beta, and he was unable to establish a connection - more likely due to a recent and buggy driver upgrade. But swears it was working before hand.

I plan on paying another visit when he get's that feature fixed, (hopefully tommorrow). I'll check for any lags or delays and post my findings if you like.

However, this thing is cool. FYI, I was told that a full sized VT card is in the unit, but that the vga ports on the back were capped off. Hmmmmm.

Pete

jcupp
04-02-2005, 07:53 AM
TriCaster uses, what appears to be, the same hardware as the VT4 so the delay is probably still the same. I haven't noticed any difference but I haven't really checked either.

The network-in works very well on my machine, you run a little app on the computer(s) you want to grab from and they automagicly show up on a list on the Tricaster. The stream doesn't include any audio which would be cool. Oh and the network-in client app even has a mode that lets you grab Media Player windows playing DRM'ed content.

And the TriCaster looks to be the most reliable NewTek product ever, which for it's intended target customer is, as they say, A Good Thing :)

PeteF
04-04-2005, 07:01 AM
My vendor told me that a full sized VT card exists in the unit, with plastic caps over the VGA ports.

So it would seem feasible that all this majic is no more than a stripped down version of the VT software at it's core. The program runs within an XP environment, but boots directly to the GUI -giving the feeling of a dedicated appliance. But you can switch over to XP and use it as a PC.

Work has kept me from going over and checking on the lag time, however if the hardware is the same, it's reasonable to agree the delay will be the same as well.

Of course, a delay or any small nuance is hardley worth complaining about when one considers it's supposed to a prosumer product :)

Pete

radams
04-04-2005, 11:37 AM
But what is the lag time of a network IN source??

As well as is the VGA and Video outputs at the same time in sync?

Cheers,

memphis raynes
04-06-2005, 06:31 AM
If it is the same card as the VT4 and it has the same latency then that sucks..

A 2-3 frame video delay is hardly going to be useful in a LIVE enviroment.
I wish Newtek would stop selling these products as LIVE solutions. They are not.
"TriCaster offers simplified live switching and audio mixing, with real-time output to video, projector" (minus 3 frames) lol

I wish they would solve this video delay problem.

PeteF
04-06-2005, 10:58 AM
Compound that with radams question about network-in lag time. Mileage would definitely vary on that depending on network congestion, hardware involved, etc.

I'm still waiting to revisit this with my vendor to see if it's an issue. Last he was having some problems with the latest beta -so will have to wait.

Has anyone else out been able to check for this?

Pete

jcupp
04-07-2005, 11:56 AM
If it is the same card as the VT4 and it has the same latency then that sucks..

A 2-3 frame video delay is hardly going to be useful in a LIVE enviroment.
I wish Newtek would stop selling these products as LIVE solutions. They are not.
"TriCaster offers simplified live switching and audio mixing, with real-time output to video, projector" (minus 3 frames) lol

I wish they would solve this video delay problem.

Is there anything that can do DVEs with less than a 2 frame delay? I can't see how it would even be possible to have less than a one frame delay and only that if you could do any processing needed during the vertical blanking period which lasts, what, three one thousandths of a second! You can't, for example, scale a frame of video until it has been digitized so there will be one frame of delay in ANY digital switcher/SEG that can scale and probably two frames in anything remotely affordable. The third frame (of the 2-3 frame delay) is caused by having to sync ungenlocked sources. Again this is true of any system no matter what the cost.

So I think that NewTek thinks that 2-3 frames delay is not only useful in a live environment but inevitable.

JReble
04-07-2005, 01:23 PM
The question this generates in my head is: If the Tricaster is primarily a VT4 hardware card with different software, what do I have to do to get 3 composite inputs on my regular VT3 or 4 card with the full shootin match VT software? I've got 3 systems, one with a BOB, but it would totally rock to be able to connect three composite cameras into the card only units via the cables only. The BOB is great, but lugging that around for small field shoots is a pain.

jcupp
04-07-2005, 03:04 PM
Convince NewTek to sell the SX-3 as a seperate SKU along with a patch so the VT4 software would recognize it. It might also be possible to do this using breakout cables on the external 15 pin connectors.

I think this would be a great idea.

PeteF
04-08-2005, 09:28 AM
Why doesn't newtek just sell the VT in a small appliance and provide a mini-bob like panel on the front end?

Pete

JReble
04-08-2005, 11:11 AM
Ya got me. It does seem silly to have a completely new software app targeting a less sophisticated video user. I suspect the tricaster software has a lower system spec by eliminating some of the full VT features. Still it spreads their support & development resources out thinner when they could concentrate on a single product with a few feature limited variations.

An SX-3 daughter card that made use of the existing cables would be great, if an additional card is even needed.

jcupp
04-08-2005, 11:43 AM
As a dealer I really like the TriCaster, we're going to sell a ton of them to people who don't need the whole VT[4] suite (or can't afford it) but who do need Simple To Use. I agree that selling the "SX-3" would be a great idea so that I could build TriCaster Pros for those who don't need tons of inputs but would like the rest of VT[4]'s features. I also want to point out that most of the development of the TriCaster was on the new skin, the new features in the underlying engine (Network In) will surely make their way to the VT line. The network in gives you, in effect, a second DSK!

One interesting thing I noticed today while installing the latest build of the TriCaster software was the message box that opened that said "NewTek SD Video driver will completed next boot. This implies to me there must be an HD Video driver in the works at NewTek

Matt Drabick
04-09-2005, 09:02 AM
Jeff, I saw the SD driver too . . . makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Matt Drabick,
DigiTek Systems
Raleigh, NC

Cineman
04-12-2005, 08:23 AM
Saw this thread some time ago but needed time with TriCaster to setup and test. Have done that now. Tested with a camcorder (Panasonic, AG-DVC30, though any camcorder should be the same) hooked up to TriCaster, Y/C, and output to Sony master monitor the same (Composite, should exactly match.).

Frame checked, the Delay is Three Frames. (I have no suspicion that there is any +/- field issue as this will eventually show in frame testing from falling differently to the vertical interval.

Didnít test, but have no reason to suspect that delay would not be clamped to two frames with genlocked cameras (which can be used with TriCaster).

Conclusion: If the projectors or LCD monitors cache no more than one frame of video (two for genlocked cameras), TriCaster can be used for IMAG since perception usually starts at about five frames.

And please never forget that any concern for this only matters for Image Magnification where the audience can see both the live action before the cameras, and the video from TriCaster or VT. I realize that this is likely to be a major use for TriCaster whether it is needed or not.

Nes Gurley

jcupp
04-12-2005, 08:32 AM
Thanks, Nes for confirming this.

pnelson
04-14-2005, 11:38 PM
With TriCaster's VGA output.. The audience in the IMAG situation will not be seeing the analog vidoe output and the VGA output should help bypass the internal scalers used with most LCD projectors. :->

We're thinking outside the box here. ;-) No pun intended.

radams
04-15-2005, 04:12 AM
I'm still trying to find out what is the delay of Network IN, vs an analog source...and to know if the analog out and the VGA out are in Sync?

So what IS the delay on a Network IN source...with a 50, or 100 meter connection?

Cheers,

ted
04-15-2005, 10:51 PM
I guess memphis hasn't worked with Digital Switchers. As mentioned above, they all have a delay. A 2 frame delay with synced cameras isn't bad. The additional frames are due to the projection gear, which NewTek shouldn't be blamed for.

On a similar note, since this is common with all digital switching units, wouldn't it be cool if NewTek decided to include an adjustable Audio Delay!!!
That way you could fine tune your set-up no matter what other gear you were using.
Now that would put NewTek way ahead of the other systems out there! :)

pfrench
04-18-2005, 03:00 PM
The audio delay is, erm adjustable. It's in the config file. It has been "tuned" to be approx. a two frame delay, to match video through, so the outputs remain synchronized.

jcupp
04-22-2005, 12:29 AM
ON the subject of the network in delay. It looks like it varies quite a bit depending on network traffic, network latency in general and the speed of the computer whose screen is being grabbed. My old 350 MHz 486 class laptop has a huge delay while grabbing from my more sprightly VT[4] machine has less. In even the best case it is a number of frames so probably not a good choice for trying to bring another input in for IMAG! :)

Shoal Creek
05-16-2006, 01:18 PM
We just bought our Tricaster and intend to use it for IMAG. Our delay is perceptable (a word?) It is slight but when we have tested on a center screen with action right behind the screen there is a noticable delay.

Is it our set up, settings, etc?


Shoal Creek

pnelson
05-16-2006, 01:45 PM
WIth any video switcher that uses frame syncs, you will see this delay if your subject stands directly in front of the screen. It's one of the joys of IMAG. The delay soundn't be more than 3 frames 1/10 of a second.

If you are seeing more delay then there may be a scaler turned on somwhere in the system.. Check that the projectors native resolution matches the TriCaster output. If it doesn't, then the projector is adding in additional latency with it's internal scalers.

Do you have the option of moving the screen away from the center of the stage? Unfortunatly, many churces install a motorzied screen infront of the bapistry. It's a convenient place to put it and it's fine for lyrics but not optimal if you are switching cameras.
I hope this helps. Please let me know if you have some questions or if I can help in any way.