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Chuck
03-24-2005, 05:04 PM
NewTek is pleased to announce the launch of a qualified beta program for the forthcoming LightWave® 64-bit port. Registered owners of LightWave [8] are eligible to participate in the open beta program, if they have access to a 64-bit platform running Windows 64-bit beta OS. The requirements, application and confidentiality agreement are available to owners registered with the US Office who log in to the registration system at http://register.newtek.com/ and click on the LightWave 64-bit Beta Banner. Owners registered through overseas distributors may email [email protected] for information. Owners of earlier versions of LightWave may become eligible by upgrading to LightWave [8], and users of selected other 3D applications may also become eligible by purchasing LightWave [8] via NewTek's current competitive upgrade offer. http://www.newtek.com/buynow/lw_products.html

LightWave's 64-bit version leverages the increased memory capacity and faster access available with 64-bit systems plus the improved power of the new processors to provide digital artists with a streamlined workflow that allows them greater flexibility and creative freedom. Content creators will be able to complete their work in less time, or to do more complex work than could previously have been done within a given time and budget. The ability to utilize much more RAM allows the artist to create more complex and realistic scenes as well as to produce images at higher resolutions for film, high-definition television, and print.

mattclary
03-24-2005, 06:42 PM
[email protected]! The things you see when you don't have a 64bit platform to use! :eek:

harlan
03-24-2005, 07:26 PM
Wow, and to think that all of us Mac users who are currently using 64bit hardware and a 64bit optimized OS & who will have a shipping next-gen 64bit OS nearly a year before the Windows "Longhorn" platform are being left in the dark. Go figure. :(

MikeMD
03-24-2005, 08:12 PM
Wow, and to think that all of us Mac users who are currently using 64bit hardware & will have a shipping 64bit OS nearly a year before the Windows platform are being left in the dark. Go figure

What do you mean?? Windows 64 bit is coming out in about 4 -12 weeks and it's a free upgrade. At least that was the announcement a CeBIT. Official word is: April release.

Whatever the case, there's no way Mac will have 64bit OS before Windows64 bit comes out.

harlan
03-24-2005, 09:07 PM
You're right, so to speak, I was referring to Longhorn rather than the "64-bit" version of WinXP.

Rather than edit my initial post, which was improperly conceived, I'll clarify by saying that I was referring to the next gen OSes (Tiger & Longhorn) rather than the current OSes (Panther & WinXP):

In regards to your "there's no way Apple...blah blah blah..." nosense comment: Mac users already have a 64bit Mac OS. OSX Panther currently is and has been optimized for 64bit since the 64bit G5 processors first came out. The MS 64bit optimized OS has yet to ship however.


Baaaaah...screw it, I edited it anyways. ;)

parm
03-24-2005, 10:29 PM
I'm totally with you there Harlen. Just seen this and to say that I am envious would be understating things just a little.

Still, it looks like LW will be first on this one.


Parm

Architook
03-24-2005, 10:56 PM
inXP):

In regards to your "there's no way Apple...blah blah blah..." nosense comment: Mac users already have a 64bit Mac OS. OSX Panther currently is and has been optimized for 64bit since the 64bit G5 processors first came out.

No, OSX 10.3 Panther isn't 64 bit. OSX 10.4 Tiger should be.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/64bit.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/28/apple_confirms_panther_os/

MikeMD
03-24-2005, 10:57 PM
Mac users already have a 64bit Mac OS. OSX Panther

Panther is not a 64 bit OS. It is a 32bit OS with a few optimizations for the G5 chip.

Windows XP 64 bit version is a full 64 bit OS which can also use 32 bit apps because both Intel and AMD chips are backward compatible.

I'm guessing that is why there is no 64 bit Lightwave being tested for Macs. You don't have an OS which can run it.

harlan
03-24-2005, 11:06 PM
Okay... since there is obviously a plethora of completely inept people here, let me reiterate the fact that Panther IS a 64 bit optimized OS. It's not entirely 64bit, but it most assuredly IS a 64bit optimized OS, and HAS BEEN since the G5.

harlan
03-24-2005, 11:15 PM
Panther is not a 64 bit OS. It is a 32bit OS with a few optimizations for the G5 chip.

Just as I said, it is a 64bit optimized OS.


Windows XP 64 bit version is a full 64 bit OS which can also use 32 bit apps because both Intel and AMD chips are backward compatible.

So is Tiger.


I'm guessing that is why there is no 64 bit Lightwave being tested for Macs. You don't have an OS which can run it.

Wrong! We have a beta 64bit OS called Tiger just as you do of WinXP64. The LW64 beta is being run on WinXP64 BETA, so why not do the same thing for Mac OSX Tiger BETA???

That was simply my point. Apparently I still have to "baby" my posts due to the masses of asses who immediately percieve everything as a threat. My post was simply a comment as to how the Mac LW users are being left in the cold in the LW64 beta - and it was mostly tongue in cheek.


God I hate stupidity!!

harlan
03-24-2005, 11:19 PM
What do you mean?? Windows 64 bit is coming out in about 4 -12 weeks and it's a free upgrade. At least that was the announcement a CeBIT. Official word is: April release.

Whatever the case, there's no way Mac will have 64bit OS before Windows64 bit comes out.


By the way. Just for the record, Tiger is due to be released in April as well. Tiger is to Mac what Longhorn will be to the PC when its released. The difference being about a year! ;)

If you want to get technical, it's HIGHLY possible if the rumors hold true that Mac will have a shipping 64bit OS prior to Win64 based on the 4-12 week release for Win64.

ciao,

harlan
03-24-2005, 11:38 PM
So lets try this again.

Panther is a 64 bit Optimized OS readily available for the Mac platform

Tiger is a 64-bit OS (Tiger is comparable to what Windows' Longhorn will be).

Tiger is in Beta

Win64 is a 64 bit version of the WinXP OS

Win64 is presently in Beta

Win64 is due to be released in 4-12 weeks

Tiger is due to be released in April

Taking the above into account, my original comment was simply pointing out the fact that even though Mac's 64bit OS is due to be released before or around the same time that Win64 there isn't a LW64 beta taking place for it. So while Mac users already have a 64-bit optimized OS with a full 64-bit OS coming out the same time as the Windows 64-bit OS, it sucks that we don't get to have a LW64 Beta at the same time as the Windows users.

Does that make sense now? Do I need to dumb it down even further???

mav3rick
03-25-2005, 12:59 AM
i just recently bough my new amd 64 p[latform 3500+ but no win xp 64 to download still.. hope to see it soon final win xp 64

Gui Lo
03-25-2005, 01:08 AM
I agree Harlan.

It seems a shame that PowerMac and iMac G5 users do not have the chance to help NewTeK. Tyey could test the beta on a solid fully working OS within a live situation.

Unfortunately they test the LW64 beta on top of another beta(Win64). But my experiance of Windows is that you cannot call it finished until SP2.

At least NewTek can say they are the first.

Gui Lo

toma
03-25-2005, 01:10 AM
NewTek is pleased to announce the launch of a qualified beta program for the forthcoming LightWave® 64-bit port..

Hi chuck, what's the difference between this LW64 beta and the LW open beta program ?

thomas.

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 03:47 AM
Does that make sense now? Do I need to dumb it down even further???

I think you may want to try going in the opposite direction for a change and smart it up.

I was simply replying to your statement that Mac will have a 64 bit OS one year before Windows. That is a false statement since 64 bit Windows is coming out next month.

Other innacuracies: Panther is not a true 64 bit OS ( even Apple admits that much )

Panther is in no way a Mac version of Longhorn. Windows XP 64 is its equivalent on PC ( a first 64 bit OS for the platform ). Nobody, not even Microsoft knows yet what Longhorn is and no PC user really cares. XP is just fine and even that is unnecessary ( all our 3D workstations still run on 2k pro sp4 ).

PC side doesn't need another pussycat OS every 3 months. It is stable enough as it is.


But my experiance of Windows is that you cannot call it finished until SP2.

I'm sorry, but since Windows 2000 pro you could call them all finished. We have G5s too and we know it was OSX which couldn't be called more than a beta until panther. And Apple charged us to test their beta OS twice before finally releasing the real thing. Not nice. Why do you think I don't like Apple much?

As for Lightwave 64 not being tested on OSX, you know how it goes. It's always like that. It sucks to be a Mac only shop. The solution should be obvious.

Para
03-25-2005, 03:53 AM
So lets try this again.
...Tiger is a 64-bit OS (Tiger is comparable to what Windows' Longhorn will be)...

Without seeing and using either of those two OS'ses you shouldn't make that kind of statements. Unless of course you're Tiger betatester AND Longhorn alphatester :p

hazmat777
03-25-2005, 04:26 AM
I will be going 64 as soon as possible. I think we need to give a little praise here to NT for being the first to begin the shift to the next platform. :eek:

Nemoid
03-25-2005, 05:31 AM
I have to go 64 sooon !!!!!! :eek: :D

Gui Lo
03-25-2005, 05:55 AM
Quote:
But my experiance of Windows is that you cannot call it finished until SP2.

I'm sorry, but since Windows 2000 pro you could call them all finished. We have G5s too and we know it was OSX which couldn't be called more than a beta until panther. And Apple charged us to test their beta OS twice before finally releasing the real thing. Not nice. Why do you think I don't like Apple much.



Sorry MikeMD,
;)
I was going to leave that off as I thought it may ruffle some feathers, and it did!
I use both; PC desktop and iBook for presentations. Best of both worlds so I look forward to both OS.
Still it is a shame that NewTek cannot enlist the help of professional Mac users too.

Gui Lo

harlan
03-25-2005, 10:41 AM
Wow, "Lord of the Idiots - MikeMD", you're even more incompetent than I had thought.


I was simply replying to your statement that Mac will have a 64 bit OS one year before Windows. That is a false statement since 64 bit Windows is coming out next month.

We've had a 64 bit Optimized OS for nearly a year before Win64 is released. However that wasn't my point. As I have mentioned 7 or 8 times already, I was referring to Tiger and Longhorn rather than Panther & Win64.


Other innacuracies: Panther is not a true 64 bit OS ( even Apple admits that much)

And, ummm, how many times do I have to say that myself? I've said that Panther is a 64 bit optimized OS at least 6 times in the past couple of posts.


Panther is in no way a Mac version of Longhorn. Windows XP 64 is its equivalent on PC ( a first 64 bit OS for the platform ). Nobody, not even Microsoft knows yet what Longhorn is and no PC user really cares. XP is just fine and even that is unnecessary ( all our 3D workstations still run on 2k pro sp4 ).

Oh sweet god... you're dumber than I thought. I never said Panther is a Mac version of Longhorn. I said Tiger was. Tiger is what Longhorn aspires to become. Tiger will be available well before Longhorn. Tiger will be available around the same time Win64 is. Tiger is a 64 bit OS.


PC side doesn't need another pussycat OS every 3 months. It is stable enough as it is.

Ummmm... We don't have new "pussycat" OSes every 3 months. It's becoming apparent that you have no real validity in this thread...you're simply pushing bias and trying to drown out the initial point of my post.


I'm sorry, but since Windows 2000 pro you could call them all finished.

Wrong!!! There's a "False Statement" if I've ever seen one.


Why do you think I don't like Apple much?

Probably because you're a shallow & biased individual incapable of making a logical decision.


As for Lightwave 64 not being tested on OSX, you know how it goes. It's always like that. It sucks to be a Mac only shop. The solution should be obvious.

You're right, the solution should be obvious. They should be developing a 64 bit Mac version along the same timeframe since the infrastructure has been there the same amount of time or longer than the Windows infrastructure (which ironically is the exact same point as my initial post).

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 10:57 AM
Lord of the Idiots - MikeMD, you're a shallow & biased individual incapable of making a logical decision

It's always easy to spot the one who lost the argument. They always resort to name calling. We know who the shallow individual here is.


I said Tiger was. Tiger is what Longhorn aspires to become

That was my mistake. I meant to say Tiger. Tiger is not a Longhorn equivalent, and nobody knows what longhorn will be, especially not you.

Win 64XP coming out next month is the first real 64bitOS on windows platform, so is Tiger on the Mac. therefore Tiger is the mac equivalent of Win 64 XP. Simple logic, difficult to grasp for you , but try.


Tiger will be available around the same time Win64 is. Tiger is a 64 bit OS
Right here you contradict your initial post which said Mac would have a 64 bit OS one year before the windows platform.

Bottom line, I can start playing with Lightwave 64 bit sooner than you.

I don't intend to argue further with children who start calling me names and feel threathened as soon as somebody points out flaws with their favorite machine, so refrain from addressing me from now on. This thread is about Lightwave 64 bit anyway. If you want to contribute you'll either have to get yourself a windows machine or keep quiet.

harlan
03-25-2005, 11:29 AM
It's always easy to spot the one who lost the argument. They always resort to name calling. We know who the shallow individual here is.

Oh, I resort to name calling all the time. Has nothing to do with winning or losing, it's just that I like to call an idiot an idiot. Why beat around the bush?

That being said, there was NO argument, until you felt threatened by my mention of the Mac platform, which quite frankly had nothing to do with you, yet you still felt the need to jump in and start an OS war.


That was my mistake. I meant to say Tiger. Tiger is not a Longhorn equivalent, and nobody knows what longhorn will be, especially not you.

Yep, it was your mistake. Just as it was your mistake to jump on my post - which was a simple comment about the lack of a Mac LW64 beta. In typical "idiot" fashion, you jumped in somewhere you didn't belong.


Win 64XP coming out next month is the first real 64bitOS on windows platform, so is Tiger on the Mac. therefore Tiger is the mac equivalent of Win 64 XP. Simple logic, difficult to grasp for you , but try.

That would be true, save for the fact that Tiger is more closely related to Longhorn than it is to Win64. And "YES", I do KNOW about Tiger and Longhorn from being closely related to the development of both products. Unlike yourself, I don't jump in and post discussions of something I have no experience with. If I didn't have experience/knowledge of both products then I wouldn't have mentioned them.


Right here you contradict your initial post which said Mac would have a 64 bit OS one year before the windows platform.

Nope, no contradiction whatsoever, being that Tiger comes out in a matter of weeks and Longhorn won't come out until 2006. As I've stated time and time again, but you're seemingly incapable of grasping it, I made an error in my initial post which I immediately corrected after your first uneccesary reply.


Bottom line, I can start playing with Lightwave 64 bit sooner than you.

Not true. We have a 64bit Win system set up and ready to go for LW64.

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 12:31 PM
Can't you read?

I asked you not to address me any more. I couldn't care less what you think about me. Simply was correcting your initial statement which you admitted was incorrect. If that makes me an idiot in your eyes, hey there is not much I can do about it.


And "YES", I do KNOW about Tiger and Longhorn from being closely related to the development of both products

And that is another way of spotting of a person who's lost an argument. They start making up stuff to cover for their other mistakes in logic :) .

-NG-
03-25-2005, 12:33 PM
Dam the only thing i lack is a 64 bit OS, i do have SuSe 64 bit, but LW doesn't run on it. :(

wacom
03-25-2005, 12:40 PM
Dam the only thing i lack is a 64 bit OS, i do have SuSe 64 bit, but LW doesn't run on it. :(


Hey you bring up a good point! Will the next sreamernet be 64bit and work on Linux 64bit? That would be Great! Renderfarms would jump for joy...or hop...

So is that in the works Chuck? Or is it already out there?

coremi
03-25-2005, 12:40 PM
why are u fighting, does it really matter wich OS is better or faster or 64 compatible. Who cares, Microsoft owns a lot shares at Apple, no matter what, both OS are under Microsoft eye, more or less directly. I don't understand this fight. Make some good art with lightwave, so many will buy Lightwave, NT get better money, put more money in LW development, we get better tools.

stop fighting, u do no good, to anyone.

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 12:57 PM
stop fighting, u do no good, to anyone.

I agree. All I said was that 64 bit version of Windows was supposed to be out next month after he said we wouldn't see it in more than a year.

Then he admits he was wrong, but that still makes me an idiot ( how dare I question an OSX fan ).

Then to cover himself says he was thinking about Longhorn, completely ignoring the fact that next months Windows IS THE REAL 64 bit OS and whenever Longhorn comes out is completely irrelevant.

prospector
03-25-2005, 01:01 PM
Strange Harlan..I got your very first post and I don't even use Mac (a leftover resentment from when they 'stole' the Amiga GUI) :rolleyes:

Intuition
03-25-2005, 02:18 PM
Ok, we need to get some research going.

I'd like to know what system is optimized for running 64bit Lightwave?

Motherboards?
Vid cards?
Ram Types?
AMD or Intel?

This could become a nightmare quickly because there is alot of supposed 64bit stuff out there ad we don't want to go buying into something that wont work.

Kurtis
03-25-2005, 02:30 PM
Hi chuck, what's the difference between this LW64 beta and the LW open beta program ?

thomas.

Thomas,

LWOpenBeta is an open beta for the 32-bit Windows and Mac ports of LightWave. LW64Beta is an open beta for the 64-bit Windows port of LightWave.

Everyone debating Mac vs PC,

We have addressed the question of a 64-bit port for the Mac a number of times already. For those that may have missed Chuck's response:


The Mac is a viable and serious 3D platform now and has been - well, all along, actually. It has always been a great graphics platform and OS X has really raised the bar.

Among our issues are that we need to migrate our development to Xcode and we've announced that this is indeed our roadmap for Mac development, as is a 64-bit port. On the Windows side we've had a 64-bit OS for development for more than four years and the overwhelming majority of the work holds good for the forthcoming Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition OS, currently in beta. We've not had that kind of a leg up on the Mac 64-bit project, so yes, we do feel that there is a great deal more work to do for Mac 64-bit development than remains in completing the port to Windows 64-bit. We do intend to solve those issues at best possible speed, but there certainly is the possibility that we may not be able to release a Mac 64-bit LightWave concurrently when we release the Windows 64-bit version. That would not be our preference, any more than it would be our Mac users' preference, but it may well be the case given the situation.

Now, please being the arguing and name-calling to a stop immediately, or this thread will be closed.

Thank you.

Alliante
03-25-2005, 02:59 PM
If you want to get into an ego contest, Linux, Sun, Digital and SGI has had 64 bit OS's for many years now.

Austin (incredulous): Your spy car's a mini?
Nigel: It's not the size mate, it's how you use it.

I *might* download it to see if there really is an impovement in 64 bits with Lightwave, but since it's probably going to be debug code, I doubt that anyone's going to see any HUGE improvements (however I'm probably wrong).

I know that I won't be using 64 bits in production until Lightwave is in production, however knowing NewTek I bet the beta will be every bit as stable as the 32 bit version. Also, I'd bet that any troubles anyone has will be with the new 64 bit drivers as well.

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 03:58 PM
I'd like to know what system is optimized for running 64bit Lightwave?

Dual Opteron system would be the best option.

harlan
03-25-2005, 04:30 PM
We have addressed the question of a 64-bit port for the Mac a number of times already. For those that may have missed Chuck's response:

Yes, I'm familiar with Chuck's comments regarding the Mac LW64. My initial comments regarding the Mac beta in this thread was simply, as I previously stated, a tongue in cheek sort of comment. If it weren't for a "windows" user taking offense to a sarcastic/joking comment, it would never have spiraled off into an argumentative thread.

I even posted a similar comment on a thread in the mac forum with a reference to the migration to XCode. No one took offense in that thread, as they knew that I was being a smartass. It's these **** "windows" users that get all bent out of shape. :)

Anyways...

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 04:40 PM
If it weren't for a "windows" user taking offense to a sarcastic/joking comment

You are assuming too much. Nobody took any offense. It was a simple correction of an inaccurate statement.
You obviously did take offense and start the name calling. Then you went in and edited the original post to fix your mistake ( naughty, naughty, somebody's not playing nice ).

harlan
03-25-2005, 05:10 PM
You are assuming too much. Nobody took any offense. It was a simple correction of an inaccurate statement.
You obviously did take offense and start the name calling. Then you went in and edited the original post to fix your mistake ( naughty, naughty, somebody's not playing nice ).

Speaking of assumptions... ;)

The problem started when you chose to "correct" my post which was merely a sarcastic comment in no need of correction. The "mistake" I made was assuming that people wouldn't misinterpret it - which is the ONLY reason I corrected it. Not only did I admit my error & correct it, I clearly stated that I had done so. It was you who took everything out of context - just as you're doing now by implying that I had some devious intent behind the correcting of my mistake.

Ultimately, if someone was making a comment to someone else in a bar, you wouldn't interrupt them to explain how you feel they erred in their comment.

robewil
03-25-2005, 05:28 PM
Enough guys. Please use private messaging and settle it there.

prospector
03-25-2005, 05:34 PM
FOOD FIGHT!!!!

oops

VERTEX FIGHT!!!!! :D :D

harlan
03-25-2005, 05:50 PM
LOL!!!!

Come on guys, it's not like it was hurting anyone. It's the most entertaining thread to have come along in a while. After all, it's not like there's been a plethora of useful conversations around here lately. :)

It's all in good fun...

toma
03-25-2005, 05:50 PM
( naughty, naughty, somebody's not playing nice ).

shall I play please ? I use lightwave many hours a day, nearly every day, each years since five years. I started on the mac platform because I was familiar to this platform and liked it better. recently, maybe two or three years ago I bought a basic PC to read autocad files (nothings beats autotocad when it comes to displaying dwg files than autocad itself ; autocad runs only on the x86 platform)… when I uptated lightwave to LW 8 I took the opportunity to trade my mac only license for the duo mac-pc license. so I tried LW on a "PC"…

three years later I use three "PCs" and one "mac" plus a G4 do do print jobs and tasks that are not related to production (though the G4 (a dual one) can manage to help when all the machines are too busy))…

BUT, I am sad, because now that I've seen both sides, I want the better of the two platforms today and in one box !

I believe that the "PC" world is like … don't know how to say it in english … [marmite chaotique, bouillonnante et inventive] … chaotic creativity for the crazy and the brave. while the macintosh world is more like : "say hello to working computers !"

maybe one day… :) but everyone can understand that one can't have the most "stable beta OS"…

thomas.

monovich
03-25-2005, 05:55 PM
wether or not it's mac (and I wish it were), it's still cool to see them heading in this direction, even if it's just my geek side thinking so.

Wish our solitary PC were 64bit...

toma
03-25-2005, 06:18 PM
I wish too that it would be more a mac type of feeling, tho sometime I'd like apple to let some of it's user take risks like in PC-Land : "you want a 3.75Ghz G5 and you won't complain if it burns ? OK ! but it will cost you more for that power !" :p

thomas.

hrgiger
03-25-2005, 06:19 PM
What I'm constantly surprised by is that Mac users get all bent out of shape everytime something isn't avaiable as readily as the pc version. As if they were being singled out and persecuted or something. Where is the puh-leeze smiley? You make your bed, lie in it. It's no different then people complaining about Lightwave in general, you decided to buy it and continue to use it, you have to expect a certain amount of shortcomings.

It's reason #13 I use a pc.

hrgiger
03-25-2005, 06:21 PM
I would like an opinion though about the new 64 bit platform. I'm going to be in the market for a new computer soon and now I'm wondering if I should look into 64 bit computing yet. I'm just wondering how much different performance will be (just talking about Lightwave, not general computing). I mean, other then being able to address more memory, how different will it be?

toma
03-25-2005, 06:26 PM
maybe the simple one frame scene that just need high res and high polycount will work…

sometimes we don't need more…

t.

harlan
03-25-2005, 06:36 PM
What I'm constantly surprised by is that Mac users get all bent out of shape everytime something isn't avaiable as readily as the pc version. As if they were being singled out and persecuted or something. Where is the puh-leeze smiley? You make your bed, lie in it. It's no different then people complaining about Lightwave in general, you decided to buy it and continue to use it, you have to expect a certain amount of shortcomings.

It's reason #13 I use a pc.

If a vendor is going to provide a product for two platforms, then both platforms should be equally supported. Expecting something different is where the "puh-leeze" smiley should come into effect. I for one understand the "shortcomings" associated with using the platform that best serves my needs, but it won't stop me from making sarcastic comments about those "shortcomings" - especially when those "shortcomings" are completely unnecessary.

It does however, amaze me that PC users always seem to find a need to criticize Mac users for choosing a platform that best suits their work environments.

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 06:51 PM
Read what Chuck said. ( read it twice please )


--------On the Windows side we've had a 64-bit OS for development for more than four years and the overwhelming majority of the work holds good for the forthcoming Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition OS, currently in beta. We've not had that kind of a leg up on the Mac 64-bit project, so yes, we do feel that there is a great deal more work to do for Mac 64-bit development than remains in completing the port to Windows 64-bit. -----------

Now remember how Lightwave had a hard time working on OSX at all when they released 2 " updates" to the OSX ( these are two betas they charged us for and these are 1/2 assed OS I reffered to as different pussycats every 3 months )

To make a long story short. It's Apple's fault, they have not made a 64 bit OS available on time and they even screwed up Lightwave with a couple of those releases, because they relesed untested beta software ( and charged us to test it for them ).

hrgiger
03-25-2005, 07:32 PM
It wasn't really a criticism Harlan. Just more to the point, people should be aware by now that the mac version isn't always available as readily as the pc. It's not exclusively a lightwave issue.

As far as it being 'unnecessary', well, I don't know about that. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on who you are), it's a pc world right now. Life is cruel for some of us. Where is that sobbing smiley?

harlan
03-25-2005, 07:33 PM
Now remember how Lightwave had a hard time working on OSX at all when they released 2 " updates" to the OSX ( these are two betas they charged us for and these are 1/2 assed OS I reffered to as different pussycats every 3 months )

Oh my god man, don't even get me started about faulty OSes. It's common knowledge that Windows is the worst when it comes to stability, upgrades, and broken features. Contrary to your earlier insinuations, I do happen to be a certified windows tech, and am a certified MS alpha/beta site (look it up) - I don't say that in a bragging manor, I'm saying it to show that I DO know what I'm talking about and am not just blowing smoke.

In answer to your question, no, I don't remember 2 "updates" to OSX that "broke" LW. I do however remember LW having the same problems in OSX that it still has to this day - regardless of the LW or OSX build you're running.



To make a long story short. It's Apple's fault, they have not made a 64 bit OS available on time and they even screwed up Lightwave with a couple of those releases, because they relesed untested beta software ( and charged us to test it for them ).

Oh, you mean like the "untested" yet released "beta" software we had to pay for called LW 6, LW 7, LW 8??? ;) Implying that these LW or OS builds are "untested" pieces of "beta software" is completely assanine. Apple, MS, & NewTek all go through extensive periods of betatesting their applications prior to release, but it doesn't kill off all the bugs nor does it always eliminate any technical issues associated with the co-existance of other programs.

I have no problem paying for software which may contain bugs, there's not a single piece of software released that isn't techincally a "public beta". What I fail to see though is how any of your comments regarding "pussycat" builds or whatever have to do with a Mac LW64.

I for one would much rather use a "pussycat" OS named after the likes of a Jaguar, Panther, or Tiger than an OS named after a large ungainly slow moving cow of an animal called Longhorn. ;)

harlan
03-25-2005, 07:42 PM
It wasn't really a criticism Harlan. Just more to the point, people should be aware by now that the mac version isn't always available as readily as the pc. It's not exclusively a lightwave issue.

I was speaking quite generally there, giger, not just referring to your particular comment. A quick search across numerous messageboards (ie: this one, CGTalk, etc...) and one will see in almost every single thread where the Mac platform is brought up, a PC user will chime in with criticisms & anti-mac sentiments for no reason other than being a dick.


Of course it's not exclusively a Lightwave issue. The majority of this banter however is due to the taking of my original post completely out of context. Again, as it was just a snide/sarcastic comment, it was never meant to result in a full-on diatribe regarding the current state of Mac vs. PC development. I've always understood and accepted the "delayed availability" of Mac applications.

js33
03-25-2005, 08:16 PM
Harlan,

Why don't you save yourself all the hassle and just use LW on the PC until the 64 bit Mac version is ready to go. :D Ducks and runs for cover. Hehehe.

Cheers,
JS

mattclary
03-25-2005, 08:21 PM
Harlan (and all you other Mac guys), here is post made by Chuck a long time ago:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=31412

When we reach a point where we can do that I'm sure we'll plan such an event.

On the Windows side we've had a 64-bit OS for development for more than four years and the overwhelming majority of the work holds good for the forthcoming Windows® XP Professional x64 Edition OS, currently in beta. We've not had that kind of a leg up on the Mac 64-bit project, so yes, we do feel that there is a great deal more work to do for Mac 64-bit development than remains in completing the port to Windows 64-bit. If I am understanding the situation correctly, there are a number of remaining OS issues to be addressed as well for a Mac 64-bit port, even as of the forthcoming Tiger. While the G5 is a 64-bit CPU, Mac OS X is not fully 64-bit at this time. Tiger will allow non-GUI based programs to be 64-bit – but this excludes Layout and Modeler from becoming 64-bit applications until Apple updates the GUI layer to 64-bit.

We do intend to solve those issues that are on our end at best possible speed, as fast as the needed OS changes allow, but there certainly is the possibility that we may not be able to release a Mac 64-bit LightWave concurrently when we release the Windows 64-bit version. That would not be our preference, any more than it would be our Mac users' preference, but it may well be the case given the situation.

harlan
03-25-2005, 08:25 PM
OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!! Do you people READ??? :)


I know, I know, I know, the whole deal regarding the Mac LW64 - I've stated that I do numerous times! I read it when Chuck first posted!!


One more time for those of yall who are obviously a little slow: I WAS JUST MAKING A SNIDE/SARCASTIC COMMENT!!!!! :)


Sheeeeeesh people... I'm quickly losing what little faith I still had in humanity.

hrgiger
03-25-2005, 08:27 PM
Sheeeeeesh people... I'm quickly losing what little faith I still had in humanity.

OS's aside, this is one area you have one up on me.

mattclary
03-25-2005, 08:29 PM
Wow, and to think that all of us Mac users who are currently using 64bit hardware and a 64bit optimized OS & who will have a shipping next-gen 64bit OS nearly a year before the Windows "Longhorn" platform are being left in the dark. Go figure. :(

Yeah, this really sounded toungue-in-cheek to me. ;)

Note how one uses a "wink" to denote humor or sarcasm, rather than a "frown".

MikeMD
03-25-2005, 09:46 PM
I WAS JUST MAKING A SNIDE/SARCASTIC COMMENT!!!!!

So was I and you got all excited, namecalling and all the works.

Cheer up dude.


It's common knowledge that Windows is the worst when it comes to stability

Is that why we have 3 Windows machines running 2k pro that haven't crashed once this year, and that G5 in the corner crashes every week even though it runs nothing besides Avid and photoshop?


I do happen to be a certified windows tech

I'm not a certified technician, yet I have no problem putting together a PC which has no stability issues whatsoever.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: <-------------official proof of sarcasm ( even though everything I said was true, sarcasm or not )

DiscreetFX
03-26-2005, 01:35 AM
it sucks that we don't get to have a LW64 Beta at the same time as the Windows users. Does that make sense now? Do I need to dumb it down even further???

And it would be nice to have a 64bit VT[4] on Mac OS X as well. I am getting sick of running VT[4] on Windows. I know I am just dreaming though.

:)

retinajoy
03-26-2005, 02:00 AM
...and no Lightwave 8.2 available for my Acorn BBC mirco B in the attic either. What's wrong with Newtek? Can't they get LW running on a 32k ram machine. :)

prospector
03-26-2005, 08:09 AM
you are sooo up there...dang rich people...
here I am with my Sinclair 1000 and only 1 color to play with. :o

Kurtis
03-26-2005, 08:34 AM
I've tried asking nicely, but to no effect.

The discussions/arguments in this thread have gone far enough on both sides. If you would like to discuss the merits of a 64-bit OS on the Mac vs the PC, please take it to another forum that is devoted to Operating Systems. The debate between platforms is obviously a heated subject that will not (or cannot) be settled here. Good-natured ribbing between the platforms is welcome, but this thread has gone well beyond that. As the old saying goes, "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt."

The 64-bit port of LightWave for the PC is going into open beta now. If you would like to participate, please email [email protected]

The 64-bit port of LightWave for the Mac is in progress. It is not ready for an open beta yet, but we will announce it here when it is.

This thread is now closed.

Thank you.