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durexlw
03-23-2005, 02:27 PM
To be honest, I stopped using Lightwave because of the new interface look and feel. The clear and comfortable look of LW 7.5 and before got lost in the what looks to me like depressing colors.

There's been hundreds of studies concerning colors and the effect it has on people. There are a few universal guidelines, however, everyone seems to have it's own set of moods linked to colors.
From a coding point of view, it's pretty simple to make a customizable interface, even programs like winamp that run in a background have them. And lightwave, a program that we have to look on constantly, didn't seem to bother in the past making it easily customizable.
Just imagine your operating system in lousy colors, it's like a pretty lady wearing sloppy clothes, a bad haircut and ugly make-up... it's just not very benefitial.

A simple sollution would be to include a few color schemes, leaving the user with a variety of choice, a more advanced sollution would be an interface builder, leaving even the creativity to build visually the look of Lightwave.

There's ways now to change the colors of the interface, however handy is something else. If you think about it: what makes Modo so popular... everybody has the feeling it can be modified to create the look that fits their needs/feelings. Some things are just worth copying...

Matt
03-23-2005, 04:41 PM
Full interface customisation requires heavy re-working of the LightWave core, that's takes time. What I've never understood (because it should be reasonably simple to implement) is why we can't customise all the colours of the exisitng interface, we can modify some but not all.

For an interim stop gap that would be a start.

Captain Obvious
03-23-2005, 05:26 PM
Trust me when I say there are bigger user interface issues with Lightwave than the colours. Hell, there are even bigger issues with the user interface's look than the colour.

Panikos
03-23-2005, 09:10 PM
I prefer the developers work on more serious aspects than colors.

Matt
03-24-2005, 05:04 AM
Oh I realise that, but it does have a place, and being able to modify colours would satisfy the more aesthetic types among us, shouldn't take long too do at all and would make a world of difference.

Although I still maintain the change from LW7 to LW8 should have been:

- Keep the 'look' as it was

- change the colour scheme

- allow users to edit more colours for screen elements

- supply us with a few sample schemes to start off


Wouldn't have taken up too much precious development time to help make the interface we work with every day slightly more easy on the eye!!!

lunarcamel
03-24-2005, 06:38 AM
At this point color is the last thing on my mind ;)

After playing with the Modo demo the last few days I'd really like to see a major overhaul of LW's UI all together - it's long overdue.

Matt your VX project looks interesting - are you a UI/Information designer or did you do all that to satisfy your own frustration? ;)

Matt
03-24-2005, 11:33 AM
Kinda both really! :)

parm
03-24-2005, 11:48 AM
For all the "interior decorators" out there, why not try this out:

http://www.lwg3d.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14365

It's a pretty cool interactive colour scheme previewer for the LW interface.

For my part, I'm very happy with the muted colour scheme of Lightwave, it's very understated and unintrusive.

Also, the absence of icons, (that are only comprehensible, once you roll over them to reveal an explanatory text box anyway), is really refreshing.

Absolutely, improvements could be made. But surely the priority lies in workflow enhancements, and streamlining the tool set.

Parm

Sande
03-24-2005, 11:49 AM
Vue d' esprit has (or at least had, I tried it some time ago) a pretty GUI, but because my renders look prettier when done with Lightwave my choice was easy.... ;)

I care about visuals and like to customize my desktop, but I also think Newtek has more important things to do than make LW skinnable. If you are running Windows you can find some help with ugly GUI from Windowblinds or StyleXP - if you're running MacOS(X) you already have a pretty GUI :)

More options with layout of the tools, docks and such are welcome though...

PS. My WindowsXP desktop (http://koti.mbnet.fi/manaatti/desktoppi4.jpg) - and of course Lightwave matches the OS with it's colours...

mattclary
03-24-2005, 11:50 AM
After playing with the Modo demo the last few days I'd really like to see a major overhaul of LW's UI all together

You just did see it. :mad:

lunarcamel
03-24-2005, 12:25 PM
Hehe - ya I hear ya on that :rolleyes:

durexlw
03-25-2005, 11:05 AM
Colors, interface, scripting you get the idea... look at the big fishes out there. The ability to allow customization is marketing. Those who dare saying otherwise should just take a glimps at Modo. They purely did their marketing around the interface and a little bit around their selection tools. That's it... the rest is just LW modeler.

I don't care for skins, just the idea behind it: make things customizable. Reading it now, I was indeed unclear about that in the initial post.

I love your idea's Matt... I recall you posted these interfaces after a question of newtek on how users would have liked the interface to look. Comparing your interface to what they finally made of it, leaves me only with one conclusion: the dude who evaluated that thread at newtek must have been blind, stupid or he must have had a very good reason wich I don't see at all.

By the way... for some of these guys saying colors don't matter, wear pink clothes, paint your house black let me design you a fluo interface for your lightwave and we'll talk again then to see how 'bright' your life will be after having made these changes.
Sure tools are a priority, however software ain't a black or white matter. It's 'and' the interface 'and' the tools that matter. That's why they call this the 'feature request' part, to let Newtek know it matters to some. Weither this idea is good or bad is useless discussion, in the end it boils down to the question, does Newtek matter or not.

And to be honest if they don't review their core, they will be off the market (procentwise) in a few years.
Modo has the same tools as LW Modeler and better selection tools and a more fluent interface. If they managed to make it at least as good as modeler, they will manage also making an animation packet that will be at least as good as LW Layout. The native LW has nearly nothing that modo doesn't have and modo additionally comes with better selection tools, and great interface. Say you had the choice, how long would it take to make the switch? Now afterall, licenses expire at some point, don't they?

Kuzey
03-25-2005, 03:29 PM
Isn't Modo an STD??

;)


There never was a choice between Matt's design and Newtek's interface!!


And to be honest if they don't review their core, they will be off the market (procentwise) in a few years.


Maybe you should go around and read the threads that Newtek staff have taken part in ??

Kuzey

vee
03-26-2005, 12:37 AM
Honestly Folks,

What is it about the color scheme that has everyone in an uproar, specifically when it comes to 3d apps?

Think about it, the program that you use the most you surely never even thought once about the color scheme or interface. PHOTOSHOP or how about quark or word or any of the others thousand or so apps that allow little to no customization?

I do use modo and its nice to diddle with the interface in my spare time, but honestly, in the heat of the creative battle the last thing i'm thinking about is the color of my gun.

Vee

Matt
03-29-2005, 10:27 AM
Don't get me wrong, there are without doubt bigger improvements that need attention before the aesthetics are addressed. It's always been more about the workflow with me, not simply the colours, but to say they are un-important shows lack of understanding of WHY they are important.

That's all, nothing less, nothing more! :)

- - -

I think users of 3D apps have come to expect this because there are so many more ways to work than say, Microsoft Word, and we're all a bit geeky at heart and love to tweak!

:D

jeremyhardin
03-31-2005, 11:03 AM
Honestly Folks,

What is it about the color scheme that has everyone in an uproar, specifically when it comes to 3d apps?

Think about it, the program that you use the most you surely never even thought once about the color scheme or interface. PHOTOSHOP or how about quark or word or any of the others thousand or so apps that allow little to no customization?

I do use modo and its nice to diddle with the interface in my spare time, but honestly, in the heat of the creative battle the last thing i'm thinking about is the color of my gun.

Vee

Interesting point. But look at computer hardware. Boxes specifically. People used to think, "Who cares what color the box and monitor are? Beige is fine! As long as it get's the job done." And rightly so. Then a few companies decided to depart from this, because there's money in aesthetics.

And that's the bottom line of any feature request. That's in essence what any request is saying. "I spent money on your product. I would be more likely to do that again if {insert feature request here}. I also think others would share my opinion, which is why I post this request here."

Like others have said. Aesthetics aren't everything. They are a hell of a lot more than nothing though.

Ztreem
03-31-2005, 11:41 AM
It's not only about the colours or the GUI, it's about workflow. And a good workflow will come from a smart use of colours and a smart GUI with lots of customization abilities.
We are all human but we are all different and we do different things, so why shouldn't we all want different interfaces?

durexlw
04-01-2005, 11:24 AM
True, Jeremy... to be honest I didn't expect any oppinions here to my initial post. This whole blown up discussion belongs in some other thread. This is a request for a feature, not for comments if this feature is usefull or not.
Think about it... one person is saying: this is important to me, and some other dude is saying: "it matters to no-one"... now call me stupid or something, but this doesn't seem to be all that right to say that it matters to no-one if someone just asked...

The only question left then is for Newtek: will the effort we put in, pay off some bill in the end?

This whole thing, is just making me believe this whole feature request thing is just a way of Newtek to keep it's users busy or something. Good marketing for Newtek would be a serious surveil about what matters today and what will matter tomorrow.
Along with a new release, show what the surveil has showed to be important, and mark off all those features that were developped, point out the features beeing developped and show what's new, what they invented themselfs... there's always two parts on listening to people: first you listen and second you give them the feeling you listened. If either one is missing, it will be as if they didn't get heard at all.

How many of you here have the feeling Newtek listens? I don't say they don't... all I say is that their marketing seems to work poorly in that direction if you ask me.

There's two parts on a software: making better of what you have and developping new stuff. Let's be honest, From LW5.5, the interface has changed little or non... except for the new scheme (what I experience as a) crappy thing they loaded LW8 with. And sure some dudes won't mind driving a lada when they can have a ferarri... I want the full range, and the tools and the interface. Certainly when other apps have prooven it possible.

Is the interface the most important top priority? Hell no, but just as a feature request is for, the only thing that I hoped to get acros: it matters to some degree.

Anyway, I care little. I switched to other software I feel comfortable in. Newtek just gives me the impression of beeing a sinking boat. I just hope for them their market will look at them differently. I really enjoyed their product, but their milking old cows if you ask me.

And as Newtek is probably hoping for: start discussing about this now, so we can stay busy and all...

Cheers

Kuzey
04-01-2005, 01:17 PM
Anyway, I care little. I switched to other software I feel comfortable in. Newtek just gives me the impression of beeing a sinking boat.


So why make the post in the first place and why are you still here for that matter?

Kuzey

Nemoid
04-01-2005, 01:30 PM
well, during lw 8 development we saw alot of good imput for UI's colors and organization, from Matt, but also from many users wich made elegant UI's mockups and more :
I remember as a good UI that of Dark Lotus...

UI is important, indeed, not like the toolset, but it is so, because the eye wants to be pleased in some way.especially that of an artist.

A good UI i like as an appearence to the eye (not workfow) is Maya one. even if i hate icons , i love colors here and there.. and i remember the first times i worked with lw that the UI was something descouraging me, because all was grey or quite so.

however, i like the colors in the new UI. maybe its a bit heavy on the eyes because of the black lines between buttons and so on, but it's highly better than the previous military one.

what i'd like more for UI is a lot of organization in panels, and workflow issues... possibility to save layouts of the Ui and maybe change colors on the fly, and font size for buttons as well...drag and drop everywhere, and for buttons too (maybe a lock UI culd be required in that case...LOL ) i'd like to have magnetic , dockable and nestable panels, especially in modeler,and much more. :)

Rory_L
04-01-2005, 11:09 PM
To be honest, I stopped using Lightwave because of the new interface look and feel
To be honest: :eek: