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View Full Version : Fundamental LW character animation flaw



Emmanuel
03-04-2005, 10:36 AM
Hi folks,

the bone tools are great, no doubt, but isn't it a serious and fundamental flaw that NT decided to shift character skeleton setup to Layout without giving the users the possibility to create their weightmaps in Layout, too :confused: ???
I mean, You can set up a skeleton, but You can't setup weightmaps, so You have to go to modeler, "guess" the bone positions from Layout, "guess" the weightmaps and be forced to tweak unnecessarily, right ?
I guess that puts a big question mark behind the BoneTools :(

Axis3d
03-04-2005, 11:10 AM
I use Vertex Paint to add weight maps to characters. It allows you to quickly paint them, copy them, and paste them on the -X axis to mirror it for the other limbs. Also, it allows you to rotate the bone to see the effect of the weight, and while rotated, you can paint on the vertices and see them snap into place instantly. This is probably what you're looking for. I do wish they could add some 3d painting tools for creating image texture maps.

I've often felt that Vertex Paint was one of those hidden gems in Modeler which should be developed more.

Mdust
03-04-2005, 12:03 PM
the bone tools are great, no doubt, but isn't it a serious and fundamental flaw that NT decided to shift character skeleton setup to Layout without giving the users the possibility to create their weightmaps in Layout, too :(

Actually it was the other way around if I remember correctly. Bones were introduced around say version 4, I believe. Then, all you could do was set them up in Layout - for what it's worth, not that that helps.

But just remember:

"Mastery Grasshooper. Mastery. When you can snatch the pebbles from my hand, you will know you have mastered bones..."

M

nemac4
03-04-2005, 12:32 PM
... I do wish they could add some 3d painting tools for creating image texture maps...
UV Chalk works well for basic texture painting.
http://f23.aaa.livedoor.jp/~fisjunk/plugin/plugin.php?id=40&p=7&c=3&t=Modeler&v=7#f

nemac4
03-04-2005, 12:42 PM
Hi folks,

the bone tools are great, no doubt, but isn't it a serious and fundamental flaw that NT decided to shift character skeleton setup to Layout without giving the users the possibility to create their weightmaps in Layout, too :confused: ???
I mean, You can set up a skeleton, but You can't setup weightmaps, so You have to go to modeler, "guess" the bone positions from Layout, "guess" the weightmaps and be forced to tweak unnecessarily, right ?
I guess that puts a big question mark behind the BoneTools :(

Besides Vertex Paint you could also use corrective morphing.
There are a few smart skinning tutorials in the newtek website tutorial section.

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/animation/smartskinning8/index.html

I also like to use SmartMorph for corrective morphing. It's a little more intuitive than vertex paint IMHO and has more options than the joint morph plugs.

http://www.polas.net/smorph/index.php

Dodgy
03-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Wellll that all depends... If you're coming from a different package where all they had was weight painting, then you might think that. On the other hand, in LW you can have every bone have it's own weight map, or just one weight map for the whole arm, say, or even not use weight maps altogether. That says choice to me. You can also use corrective morphs, which are fairly easy to set up. Vertex paint is very good and I like it a lot. You can also cut your object into separate pieces, and weight those, then paste and merge them back together, and that makes it very easy, as opposed to some packages where the mesh has to be completely finished before weight painting.

Celshader
03-05-2005, 04:37 AM
the bone tools are great, no doubt, but isn't it a serious and fundamental flaw that NT decided to shift character skeleton setup to Layout without giving the users the possibility to create their weightmaps in Layout, too :confused: ???

I take advantage of the Hub and leave Modeler open in case I need to add weight maps.

With bone falloffs that can reach Inverse Distance^128, though, I don't use many weight maps for characters. Weight maps are great for restricting a stray bone's influence -- especially for limited-region bones -- but I don't need many of 'em.

I did once weight-map every bone's influence in my character setups, but that was back in the 6.5 days, when bone falloff only went up to Inverse Distance^32. :o

SplineGod
03-08-2005, 08:36 PM
Im with you Jen.
I tried it once and never did it again. If youre not doing video games theres no reason to weight map every skelegon.

Adding bones in layout makes more sense generally than in modeler since thats where the actual animation takes place. Lightwave bones are also deformers in their own right which means it makes a lot more sense to test deformations FIRST before determining where weight maps MAY be needed and in what degree.
Its also very easy to assign bones to weight map in the scene editor as well.
As Jen pointed out once greater bone falloffs were introduced into later versions of LW weight maps were needed less and less. This is something even Newtek agreed with after the new bone falloffs. :)