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View Full Version : Deformer Bones - A.K.A special muscle/deformer bones



hesido
02-23-2005, 04:43 PM
Deformer Bones - A.K.A special muscle/deformer bones

At least that's what I call them.. ;)

They will be a special type of bones, which affects -after- subdivision by default, and will not adhere to the "skin" like the normal bones. In fact; they will not do anything when moved without scaling, and will only affect when scaled. This way, we can very much easily simulate skin sliding over muscles and bones.

You would be able to couple normal bones with deformer bones for a semi-sliding skin effect.

The scaling will affect the mesh similar to normal bones, only, there will be no adhesion, so this means the mesh will not stick with the movement of the bones.

Say, we can "sculpt" the scapula in layout using a series of deformer bones by first placing them and scaling them, quite easily, and set them to move with the arm, and do less bulging on some angles. There you go.

tudor
02-24-2005, 01:00 AM
I want this..
An other idea I thought of is twisting bones.
Bones that thist like the twist deformer in modeler. The end of the bone is adjusted to match the child bones rotation while the base of the bone stays adjusted to the parent bone.
Came to think about this when I made an arm with muscle bones and it just did not look good when I rotated it too far along the bank axis.
Maybe an undated shift spline transform would do all this. That plug has its quirks atm.

Dodgy
02-24-2005, 04:45 AM
Aren't you using follower to do this?

tudor
02-24-2005, 05:24 AM
several bones in a chain and follower does not play nice.

twist bones.. when rotated on bank, only the tip rotates.. That might be an easier explanation. With an extra option to target and stretch to a goal we have some killer muscle bones.

Dodgy
02-24-2005, 06:21 AM
But can't you just add multiple bones along the arm, and use follower to spread the top rotation along those bones, thus giving the effect you want? I use it all the time.

tudor
02-24-2005, 06:29 AM
I do that aswell, but if I want to use these bones as muscle bones it is a pain. Several bones working as one muscle.
Also, wouldn't it be nice if you only had to place one bone instead of many :)
Give us a good solution and we don't have to worry about a workaround.

edit/
also, I have done some IK/FK switches, and when doing that I run into problems with follower and IK. I end up with 3 arm rigs for one character.
Otherwise I have an orient constraint following a follower, and all with IK.. problem..
/edit

hesido
02-24-2005, 08:35 AM
Guys, I guess you are talking about a totally different subject!

Deformer bones that just bulge or de-bulge the mesh by scaling without sticking to it. To remind the wonderful development team :)

tudor
02-24-2005, 09:00 AM
Have you tried the 'effector' deform plugin?
Imagine if we could set it to any shape we wanted and it didn't freak out as much.. that would be cool.
Kinda works like the deformer bones you want.

hesido
02-24-2005, 10:58 AM
I think I know what it does and what it doesn't:

It doesn't react like bone scaling, which is almost the whole point...
You cannot lay down nulls like you lay down bones, both in modeler and layout, which is another..
You cannot create a shape with nulls the way you would easily with bones.

Effector is good maybe for a single spherical bulge.

So I persist for such a new and good and nice feature.
:=)

tudor
02-24-2005, 12:45 PM
Not trying to hijack your thread, but I have some more ideas of what I would want to see..

In the below picture joint compenstaion etc. can be set on any axis, and there is an auto muscle bone creator!

Just activate and a muscle bone appears. Set start and end object, and then adjust the position offset from the bone.
Now if this bone is a twisting bone we would get some kick *** bones!

CB_3D
02-24-2005, 03:34 PM
Now here´s something cool i´ve wanted to see for a long time!

Ztreem
03-01-2005, 03:10 PM
This is something I do love to see in LW in a not too distant future. :D

hesido
03-01-2005, 03:39 PM
which one, lol :) edit: Tudor, your ideas are nice indeed...

Ztreem
03-01-2005, 03:46 PM
which one, lol

If you mean in which one of the future updates I want to see deformer bones, then I hope it's in 8.5. If you mean which one of the different suggestions in this thread, I vote for everything. :cool: