View Full Version : Tip: Modeling in Layout

02-23-2005, 12:01 PM
Sounds odd? Agreed...but check this quick demo out and I'm sure you will agree that it's quite useful.

Tip: Modeling in Layout
Use this technique when you need to adjust your models geometry right inside of Layout. This technique is perfect for matching geometry to a background plate.

Size: 6.77 mb
Running time: 2:16
Model in Layout (ftp://ftp.newtek.com/pub/LightWave/Tutorials/Vidz/MatchBackground_web.mov)

02-23-2005, 01:37 PM
Pretty cool.

But it reminds me of how powerful LW could be with Modeler and Layout combined - one wouldn't need any special tricks to do what this vid describes.

02-23-2005, 02:03 PM
I'm inclined to agree with Cman. I haven't watched the vid yet but I know there are ways to model in Layout and it would be nice to use some of the modeling tools in Layout. Not sure the best solution :)

02-23-2005, 02:13 PM
agreed....but until then....this will help ease the pain :)

I have tasks that this will work for right now...when we get future tools and workflow improvements ....I will use those as well :)

02-23-2005, 02:32 PM
Ten out of ten for lateral thinking.
Unfortunately it is this type of covoluted work-around (I had another phrase in mind ;) ) for industry standard tools that is so prevalent all through LW that has me pulling my hair out.

For cripes sake, just merge the two halves of the program and weed out the bodge's. :)

02-23-2005, 02:41 PM
Seriously - Im tired of 3rd party plug ins and work arounds - just seeing that gives me hope - well kind of lol ;)

02-23-2005, 02:44 PM
a one click button solution :P

02-23-2005, 02:58 PM
A quick solution that could work (short term) is a camera view in modeler running thru the hub......That would work for me right now if I had it.

02-23-2005, 02:59 PM
one more thing about the technique......you can edit the geometry with the edit tool on a frame by frame basis....that means you could animate the gemotry and then save an mdd file of the changes....could be handy

02-23-2005, 03:23 PM
thanks for the video proton! :D

as soon as you hit the property page and headed off to the dynamics tab i guessed what you were about to do...not that i thought of it before you did the video though!...

nice one and great idea of using tools designed for other things in i different and refreshing way...well done

i look forward to having a camera in modeler one day!


02-24-2005, 02:40 AM
Funny enough... this technique is finally covered by NT's staff... great work Proton... as always! :cool:

There was a Thread about Edit Tool in Feature Requests Forum:
FX edittool handles and multiselection (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=25000).

We proposed some enhancements and the possibility to "export" it to a generic Displacement plugin (same discussion on CGTalk too).

02-24-2005, 03:58 AM
I think it's a nice workaround, but it's not that good. For example editFX can't handle multiselections, so it's a pain to edit the mesh this way.
The camera thing in modeler sound alot better or why not combine both modeler and layout to one great Lightwave app. But until we get that, this workround will do. ;)

PS. Proton: Thanks for the video, great as always.

02-24-2005, 07:10 AM
This is so typical.
Somebody tries to offer up a useful tip, and the thread gets hijacked into another "why doesnt somebody change Lightwave to make it work like I want it to?" whining session.

02-24-2005, 07:41 AM

The ability for 3d artists to camera match is a big deal. It's one of the major breakdown points with LW's separate-modeler-layout paradigm. This is an extremely helpful workaround Proton brought up, and I'm greatful.

But It's also a kluge. Camera controls in modeler would be wonderful. As Proton himself said, until we get a more planned-out solution, this trick helps.

Please refrain from devolving this thread with your comments on "whining". It's a dismissive personal attack on all who have contributed, and does nothing to deepen any understanding on this topic. Can we get back on track? Any useful camera mapping anecdotes to share?

02-24-2005, 08:55 AM
Thanks proton, that is honeslty usefull.

02-24-2005, 09:01 AM
I'm the one who devolved the thread. :rolleyes:
Its a tip. It is NOT a call for suggestions on how the software could be changed.
Maybe you should ask all the others who were "attack"ed to stay on topic.
But then, that wouldnt serve your agenda, would it?

02-24-2005, 10:39 AM
ursa take it easy - it's a discussion forum, we're just discussing. :)

02-24-2005, 12:42 PM

I'm curious as to what you think my agenda is. I generally like perusing these forums to pick up useful nuggets of how-to info. Proton's tip fit the bill. Thanks again Mr. Vaughan!

What I find less useful/often painful are "lightwave sucks!" "lightwave rocks, stop picking on it!" generalities. They tend to gum up the works, often sidetracking, even shutting down otherwise useful threads. Sorry if you felt persecuted. I was earnest in my question as to whether you had any specific comments on camera mapping.

Personally, I would love to see better camera mapping implementation. I do a lot of work for car accounts, where we get selects in from the photo shoot, then have to combine with exsisting shots of different make/model packages(example: turning an Mclass 500 series into a 350 by exchanging bumpers, hubs, panel detailing). Often, these shots arent perfect matches, but by projecting an image onto rough geometry, I can turn the camera angle 5-10 degrees and have better options.

Right now, It's still too cumbersome to do in lightwave. Oftentimes it's better to simply re-illustrate the details in photoshop, but it's nice to have the flexibility that the 3d solution provides. What I'd really love is for Newtek to rethink the whole still image workflow, no only improving camera mapping, but better implementing their layer export into photoshop. Having worked with a number of New York ad agencies in the last year, I was pleasantly surprised to see Lightwave installed in a bunch of in-house shops. It would be a good opportunity for Newtek to solidify this market and bolster their photo functionality. Hey, Newtek. if you streamlined how the camera works with images, it would make lightwave a great photo meshwarping tool. With UV mapping onto surfaces I'm totally able to do so now--the workflow is just not optimal(and hardly a full-fledged solution Newtek can market). I see the culprit being the current design of modeler-hub-layout. I consider Maxon Computer an example of a company that's doing still-image functionality well. I would be happy if Newtek achieved this level of integration.

02-24-2005, 12:57 PM
God, I wasn't going to get into this but......

I have to agree with Ursa.

It was a TIP thread.

mbaldwin, your last comment was well thought out and explained in good detail, which would have gone over better in the beginning instead of the ' we need to intergrate so we don't have to do workarounds' tho not your statement.

I hope proton keeps giving tips and not just stay away so there isn't any of this in the future.
Thanks proton

Now can we tie that tip to the F12 button so it updates Modeler?

02-24-2005, 01:08 PM
I don't think mbaldwin's comment was meant to start an argument, it was just a statement. I don't know why anyone's making an issue of it.

02-24-2005, 01:25 PM
It was a tip thread about a workaround. A useful workaround at that. So I'm assuming comments on workarounds are fair game. I'm on the mac and had been staring whistfully at a plugin that Fujio had on his junkbox site that allowed you to move points around in layout. Alas, not for the mac. It's nice to know there's a native solution that I can use.

But I'd agree with the desenters on this thread that better solutions are needed. Anyone using 3d to make a living knows that it's a fine line between profit and loss. The speed and flow in which we do our work are not minor things. Order me up a workflow WITHOUT the barnicles and collapsed lung please.

edited for spelling

02-24-2005, 03:14 PM
Guys, don' t get me wrong,
Im totally in favor of discussion about wanted features,things that should be adressed in the software, etc. I understand that that's what fori (is that a word?)
are all about.

I guess i reacted to the whole "devolving" the discussion idea in a kneejerk way and I do apologise about that. I just felt that the thread had gotten off track from the subject. I just feel that those discussions have a place and that since this was a thread about a tip, it shouldnt turn into yet another long list of things that Lightwave doesn't do. It's supposed to be about something that you CAN do.
I didn't intend to attack anyone or anything like that.

Thank you Will, for the tip, and thanks also to those who contribute to the Lightwave community in any way.

peace..and keep the faith

02-24-2005, 04:10 PM
If Layout and Modeler do get merged, I hope you can switch all that modeling stuff OFF. I don't want it taking up space or resources, I'm not a modeler and don't want to be! I wouldn't build props on my stage anyway!

Besides, don't you hate having to UV map just for a planar or spherical map, and being stuck in one object because you've decided to work on it's geometry? Select object, go into 'polygon' mode, edit, go back to 'object' mode to select another object, etc.

02-24-2005, 04:14 PM
thanks proton ;) this will come in very handy indeed.

02-24-2005, 05:20 PM
I'm with ya too Ursa.

If this thread prompts someone to head over to the feature request forum or sen an email to feature requests, that's a good thing. But this isn't the thread for it. Be happy there's a workaround at all.