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pixelranger
04-17-2003, 01:00 PM
In respect of the people that might get offended by this image I have removed it temporily until I change the setting around the characters. Then I'll post it again. Sorry for the inconvenience.
And sorry for being such a dumbass! (And even though I didn't want to make a statement, I did, and I have to, as the creator of the "message", stand behind it. I can't defend the image more than just say that it portrays the fear that many had at the beginning of the war (that us troops would be thrown into Saddams grinder while Saddam and Bush are safe) and therefore I have removed it temporarily.

Don't worry , an update will be coming soon :)

Meanwhile, here's a close up of the soldier:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/temp.jpg

pixelranger
04-17-2003, 02:16 PM
Here's a test of an iraqi:

pixelranger
04-17-2003, 02:21 PM
And here's GI Joe's wires:

http://www.storedyret.com/iB_html/uploads/post-5-73151-wire.jpg

Hiraghm
04-17-2003, 02:51 PM
The quality of the modelling and lighting is great. How bout a wireframe of Saddam?

I think you should turn off the shadows on some of the lights, however. Saddam has like 4 shadows it seems.

How did you do the floor and back wall?

For more drama, you might consider adding a window with appropriate scenes from the war, or break the back wall up, with scenes from the war showing through the cracks and holes.

(I may not agree with the assertion of the work, but that has nothing to do with the work itself.)

Rei
04-17-2003, 02:54 PM
hmm, i like that.

I am working on some images that are related to war.

Rei

Capel
04-17-2003, 06:42 PM
Dude, GREAT modeling. I love the charicature of Saddam. Dead on. No crits. :D

riki
04-17-2003, 06:59 PM
The soilders arms look a bit strange from this angle, plus your Sadam doesn't really capture his personality. I don't know why but your sadam reminds me of Jay Leno for some reason?? Maybe the smile??

pixelranger
04-17-2003, 07:01 PM
Hi there. Thanks for all the comments! :)

riki: Jay Leno, you say.... hm.. yes, strange coincidence, don't you think?? ...

I'd just like to stress, again, that there are no intentions of making a political statement with posting this image!!
I just tried to make a plausible explanation to the image (which is purely artistic ramblin') so that noone would think that this is a pro-saddam image. ...It isn't a pro-bush image either. Simply drop the pro/con thing and just see it as a modelling and lighting test with a badly chosen motive :).

Hiraghm: Thanks for the tip on the shadows. I'll fix it :)
Concerning the floor and the walls: The environment is a metanurbed box with the top poly removed (to let in background radiosity light). I always put a couple of layers with fractal noise on surfaces that are mainly even colored, just to get a slight variation. The transition between the floor and the walls are curved, which results in a smooth "horizon".

Here is Saddam's wires:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/saddam_wire.jpg

PS. If you would like to, I could post step by step images of the techinques used to model both GI Joe up there and the more cartoonish fella; Saddam himself.

sparky
04-17-2003, 09:12 PM
I love the modelling.

that first shot kinda looks like the guy's arms are chopped off rather than tucked behind him.

riki
04-17-2003, 09:34 PM
Yes to see modeling process would be great. Please post.

banshee
04-18-2003, 04:34 AM
Great diversity in your skills and artistic styling. Top-notch stuff and inspirational. Much more to learn still (me). Look forward to some updates.

EyelandArts.com
04-18-2003, 01:58 PM
Well I for one think that all these images are wonderfull including the original. I think that if anyone complained then you shouldn't give a rats ***** and post it anyway, no apology needed. I really liked the Mcdonalds "M" detail BTW.

Lately it would seem people are afraid to post anything "unpopular" and I think its admirable that you did.

Great job!:)

MeanTex
04-18-2003, 05:27 PM
I Love it. Nice Saddam.

-Tex

Hiraghm
04-18-2003, 09:15 PM
Pixelranger, don't worry about the context. This is the forum where we discuss our views but examine and critique 3D artwork. The scene is what it is. What the scene says is irrelevent here, so you don't need to explain or apologize or worry about upsetting anyone.

I still can't get over the detail on your G.I.

I'd love to see your Saddam guy animated.

pixelranger
04-19-2003, 09:46 AM
Hiraghm: Thanks, man.

I know your views on this war so when you write a reply like this, I know that you understand the message of the image.

The image, which can be seen here, was drawn during a period of the war where it could seem like USA were hitting the wall and that they perhaps had underestimated the Iraqi resistance.
This was therefore just an outlet for the concern, fear and frustration over the worst case scenario the americans were possibly facing.
Luckily, the situation changed quickly.

The image itself is no more shocking than any other political charicature seen in any broadsheet paper.

-Just so you know it, I'm not against this war. But it's a fact that both soldiers and civilians suffer and that's what this is about.
And as far as the McDonald's bowl, its there to illustrate any economical interests by having this war.
Allthough I' NOT saying the image portrays the reality, it is a very cool illustration and it provokes thoughts worth having. It's questions the war and the motives behind it and I think that is a good thing. Even though we come to the conclusion that the war is the right thing to do. Going to war without weighing good against bad is never a good thing to do.

I truelly appreciate the openminded nature of this forum and I'm glad that artists who have something to say can post images here without this becoming a political forum. Most art hold a message and if the forums won't let messages through, we, the artists, will eventually turn into little Thomas Kinkades making images of apples and cootage homes to be able to show our pieces anywhere.

Here's the drawing by Nikolai Lockertsen ([email protected]):

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/drawing.jpg

And here's my 3d version:

http://www.storedyret.com/iB_html/uploads/post-5-73542-test_small.jpg

And here (http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/test_large.jpg) is a 1600 x 1200 version.

Rei
04-19-2003, 10:35 AM
It is a great peice of art.

Though I wouldnt say this is not a political forum, look at general disscusion for starters!

Rei

Hiraghm
04-19-2003, 10:40 AM
I wonder, if instead of having the ground hamburger coming out of the grinder, if you had sausage links popping out, what the effect would be?

cgwolf
04-19-2003, 12:55 PM
Nice work Pixelranger, very good detail.

cl1ff
04-19-2003, 09:45 PM
I won't say too much about this image, because I'll sound like some kind of toadieing sycophant. If I liked my own work as much as I like yours, I'd have to hire a couple of guys to help carry my ego around.:D

I would just like to encourage you to post those step by step images you mentioned. When I see this kind of work posted here, it makes me want to improve myself.

Damn! I ended up sounding like a sycophant anyway.

Hiraghm
04-20-2003, 01:39 AM
Exactly, Rei. This is the Gallery - Finished Forum, the General Forum is... the General Forum. :D

Frederic L.
04-21-2003, 07:41 AM
very nice work pixelranger ,
I liked the hair on that second image very much aswell.

Every Artist has the freedome of expression, and your an artist.
So it is your right to express your vision on the situation in Iraq the way you want. :)

You did a nice smooth job on the modeling, very clean;) .
Your color pick is very good to, nice choice.
you could put some more work in the overall lighting of the
scene and the envirement imo. ;)

Overall I'd say you did a great job.:)

ps; I do have one question (if this hasn't been asked before) , did you model the characters in there pose , or did you rig em and then posed them ?

Bionic Antboy
04-21-2003, 09:36 AM
I'd have to say this this is my favourite "style" of work, that kind of over the top, not quite caricature look (okay, well Saddam is a caricature, but the soldier and Iraqi aren't).

You did a great job bringing that Political Cartoon to 3D life! I also really love the skin texturing on the Iraqi. The lighting/colouring almost reminds me of a Frazetta type palette. Is the skin done with proceedural textures It would be interesting to see these guys in motion, although it seems you do pose models...

It would be interesting to see some kind of graphic treatment to the background of the finished piece, maybe something to go with the theme of the cartoon...though it works as is too. :)

Doran
04-22-2003, 10:11 AM
Maybe you should do a model of the Iraqi information minister instead of Saddam.

This would be a typical Saddam torture fantasy. Very disturbing especially in light of large slaughter/meat grinding torture machine that Saddam and sons used on humans found in last few weeks. Really a sick bunch of crooks...

sannyasi
04-22-2003, 08:08 PM
Excelent work. some of the best I've seen in a while on the forums, And whether or not you had an underlying message here I think is irrelevent to the forums, Thoose who would complain have the right to, but I don't feel you owed any apology. But If you want to be politically correct (and more acurate), I'd say you put both the Iraqi and US sodier in the grinder together and have both Bush and Sadam tuning the crank (wads of cash spilling out of thier pockets would be a nice touch too, and purhaps instead of ground beef, a barrel of oil).
I'm sorry I'm on a rant. I'll end now.

But seriously I think its an excelent piece.

Hurben
04-22-2003, 08:37 PM
Beautiful image.. great models, great colours.. and a sensitive topic. I especially like the meat grinder.. the whole image reminds me of claymation styles.

I have one qualm though, and that is the base of the US soldier soesn't seem like it's getting pulled through the grinder, just kind of sitting on top. I think if you fixed that it would be way more convincing.

more! more!

3d warro
04-23-2003, 03:06 PM
YOU ARE REALY GOD ARTIST !!!...
TELL ME ALL YOURS TECHNIQUES, PLEASE.
JAJAA.



( SORRY MY ENGLISH IS BERY BAD )

;)

pixelranger
04-23-2003, 06:31 PM
Hi again. I've been away for a couple of days cause there has been so much happening at work.

First of all, thanks for the great respons!! This is the reason why I love the LightWave community. I admire the Lightwave community for the maturity of the members. I really do! It's a perfect forum for on-topic-critisism.

Hiraghm: Sausage links? I don't know. What effect do you think it would have? ;)

cgwolf and cl1ff: Thanks, it's much appreciated :)

Frederic L: Thanks alot for the critisism! I'll definately work on the lighting and the environment.

Bionic Antboy: Thanks alot. I like the style too, hehe ;)
Their skin is only procedural allthough I'm redoing their surfacing for the next image. I'll make a new setting with a new background.

Doran: I honestly didn't know anything about the method Saddam have used. This was strickly a metaphorical image.
Since you brought up the Iraqi Information Minister:
http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/
I know this isn't a place to spread political content which isn't art-related, but it's just kinda funny :)

Sannyasi: Thanks for the kind words!! That was actually my idea too, but I asked Nikko if I could permission to make a 3d model of his drawing, and he agreed on the condition I did it step by step on a norwegian graphical forum, so I wanted to stay true to the original...
But... I really admire the young boys who are willing to give so much of themself for what they believe (I'm not saying I don't) is for the greater good.

Hurben: Thanks for the critique. I agree, but it won't be relevant anymore, as I'm redoing the scenario. But I'll keep it in mind.

3d warro: Thanks. You've got some cool images on your website yourself. I'll post the step by step images of how I made them if anyone's interested.

cl1ff
04-24-2003, 01:18 PM
Pixelranger, I, for one, would absolutely be interested in the step by step images!

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:34 PM
Ok. Well, here goes:

For GI Joe i used the point by point method (don't ask why..).

First I started with the eyes. They are in the middle of the face and when they are made, the rest of the face is much easier to make and it's easier to get the proportions right.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636368.jpg

When that was done, I used the Pen tool to make a poly shaped like an eye.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636390.jpg

Now I beveled this poly outwards forming the eyelids along the way.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636462.jpg

Now I used the bend tool to bend the eye around the eye ball and used the drag tool to define the eyebrows and the nose ridge.
I also spun a couple of quads to fix the edgeloops.
I tried to keep the poly count down in case I had to go back and edit later (which I always have to...)

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636481.jpg

Then I did the same for his mouth.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636538.jpg

Then I used smooth shift and the drag tool to make the shape of nose.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636554.jpg

I used extender to get the geometri to go back around the head.

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:35 PM
Now over to his ears:
There are a thousand ways to model an ear, but this time I went for a method close to Bay Raitt's method (see his tutorial at web page (http://cube.phlatt.net/home/spiraloid/).

I made a poly with the box tool and I used Magic Bevel to drag out the shape of the ear. I set the Scale (on Magic Bevel's numeric panel) to 99.5 (how much the extrusion will shrink for every egment beeing made)and activated the "Spline" toggle button to adjust the shape. Be sure that the "align to path" toggle button is active.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636610.jpg

I then deleted the backside (the side facing toward the head).
I then mad 4 curves from the inner, upper edges.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636696.jpg

I then made a spline patch and merged points. Then I used "extender to make a couple of columns downwards inside the ear.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636769.jpg

Then I continued making polys and smoth shifted and spun quads until I had the main shape of the ear.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636784.jpg

I then attached it to the rest of the head making polys point by point.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636803.jpg

Now that that the head was finished, I chose 4 points below/behind the ear and extended them down the neck to make the muscles on the sides of the nedk. The rest of the neck I made making polys point by point.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636822.jpg

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:36 PM
I used box modeling for the torso; I made a box with 4 segments in front view (across the chest), 2 segments in the side view and 3 vertical segments.
I scaled down the abdominal region and upped the width of the shoulders. I tried to block out his shape very roughly. I then smooth shifted the polys marked yellow.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636843.jpg

I then smooth shifted out his shoulders and rotated them upwards.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636859.jpg

From under the extruded shoulders I smooth shifted the arms, and then I smooth shifted the pecs and the abdomenal muscles.

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636880.

After this I spun some quads and worked a bit on his edge loops until he looked like this:

http://www.firedragon.com/~lwg3d/pix/2003/04/17-636899.jpg

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:49 PM
To make Saddam or any other cartoonish character I most often use the Spin Shift method portrayed in UserDelta's modeling videos.

Using this method it's easier to see how the main shape is coming along and you don't end up with a picasso image as the proportions are easier to get right from the beginning. The details are then added later.

I started with a boc with 3x3x3 segments:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut01.jpg

Then I pressed TAB and made his head shape rounder:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut02.jpg

I then smooth shifted the polys making up his mouth and nose area.

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut03.jpg

And then I smooth shifted the three polys making up his nose and forhead:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut04.jpg

After that I used "spin quads" to correct his edge loops:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut05.jpg

I then smooth shifted the polys making up his mouth and nose tip area:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut06.jpg

And then the tip of the nose:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut07.jpg

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:50 PM
I then smooth shifted the polys making up his mouth:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut08.jpg

And then I spun a couple of quads to fix the edge loops by the nose.
I also split a poly to get a couple of triangles which would stop a bandsaw operation:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut09.jpg

I then used bandsaw going over his nose and one going back around the head.
I also smoth shifted the polys making up his eye areas:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut10.jpg

I then tried doing a bandsaw up from his eyes (I flipped a poly inside his eyes to stop the bandwas so that it didn't go downwards under his eyes. Luckily it went around and up over his nose, and I needed geometry there too, so...

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut11.

I then flipped back the polys in his eyes and welded the extra point frm the bandsaw.
Then I smooth shifted the eyes once and ran a bandsaw down under his nose. hm... this looks lilke its getting more realistic than cartoon, but it's the same technique.... :

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut13.jpg

Then I smooth shifted the polys under his nose to get nostrils.
(I had to turn off symmmetry mode because the polys I wanted to smooth shift were connected at x=0 and I didn't want to smooth shift them all-in-one):

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut14.jpg

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut15.jpg

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 02:51 PM
I then smooth shifted the mouth once more and started to drag points around.

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut16.jpg

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut18.jpg

I smooth shifted the insides of his mouth back and down his throat:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut19.jpg

I then deleted the innermost polys of his throat to stop a bandsaw under each nostril:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut20.jpg

Then I started dragging points around to shape his face and I smooth shifted his neck down from some polys under his head:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut21.jpg

I then smooth shifted a loop of polys around his eyes so that he got eye lids. Some spinning of qads and dragging of points later he is coming along:

http://www.rayk.be/pxlranger/saddam_nikko/box_tut22.jpg

Rei
04-24-2003, 03:15 PM
I like you, my modem doesn't.

Rei

Angel
04-24-2003, 03:55 PM
Thanks a lot for taking the time to make this minitutorial...

Its amazing how helpful a videotutorial could be, each new face i did as soon as i checked userdelta´s vid its done starting exactly as u portray here and shown in that vid


By the way, didnt like the image, had to be honest, i loved the expresion on the marine, and has nothing to do with the subject (althought being spanish, and having my government supporting that masacre, which i´m absolutly against), but the idea of the image like being between a charicature and something real...




______
angel

pixelranger
04-24-2003, 05:37 PM
Angel: thanks! I really appreciate your honesty.
But if it's just the style that you don't like I'm afraid I can't do anything about it. :) I like that style myself and I know at least a couple other guys who like it, so I think I'll continue in the same style.
But I would very much like to hear if there is anything specific that you don't like about it. -something that you think could improve the style or the image without changing style.
When it comes to style I think it boils down to personal taste, and personal taste is often sorta the same as an ***. -Split in the middel. -But if you dig far enough, you'll see that they still have something in common ;)
If you have some tips I'd really appreciate it if you shared them with me.

Angel
04-25-2003, 02:53 AM
I totally agre, its a matter of personal preference, and that should be respected...but i think that even without changing style, what bothered me its the diference between the amount of realism on sadam´s face in front the amount of realism of the marine´s face...that seemed to me like two diferent aproaches in the same image, which breaks the unity i believe every piece should have...

But man, bare with me, i dont even have that style for me very clear on mind, talking is easy, but doing the stuff is something else...

Just keep them coming! cause u´re great...!



_____
angel

pixelranger
04-25-2003, 03:41 AM
Ok. If you're talking about the difference in style between Saddam and the marine, then I understand. And I sorta agree....
Just wanted to replicate the drawing. But you're right. I'm working on a new setting for the marine and the iraqi man and there the style will be consistent throughout the image.

Thanks for the comments.

André

RAZ
04-25-2003, 10:35 AM
Brilliant work.....got to say I couldn't look at it for long..too harrowing. It should make the cover of TIME or something.

cl1ff
04-25-2003, 02:05 PM
I was just expecting a few images. Thanks for going the extra mile!

I must say that you did a fantastic job of staying true to the original art while carrying the style forward with color, texture, and lighting. This is much more difficult than some might think, and it requires one to be very comfortable with his tools.

Ramon
04-27-2003, 07:16 PM
Hi Pixelranger! I really admire the way you flow the polygons in your objects. You have great talent for creating efficent models. Although in contast to Angel's perspective, I personally was 100% for freeing the Iraqi people. I would love to see other work that you do. You should make a tutorial video. I sure it would sell! I haven't seen user delta's method. Anyone have a link?
The boy's got skills!

pixelranger
04-27-2003, 07:34 PM
RAZ, Cl1ff and Ramon: Thanks alot for the comments.
The excellent video tutorials from UserDelta can be found Here (http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/tutorials/modeling/head/index.html). There has never been any doubt that UserDelta is very talented. :)

Sincerely,
André

Hiraghm
04-27-2003, 08:31 PM
Actually...

Keep the Marine and the Iraqi soldier "real" looking. Doesn't that add to the message? These cartoon characters are grinding up real people for their own profits?

j0SH
04-29-2003, 05:32 PM
hehe my mates and i loved it...(the pic)

groodwanderer
05-07-2003, 06:10 PM
This is an excellent image. Some good tutorials as well. :D When are you going to finish your other image? I would love to see your Bush characer.

WilliamVaughan
05-14-2003, 02:17 PM
one word....AWESOME!

WilliamVaughan
05-14-2003, 02:38 PM
you should submit it to EXPOSE over at 3D Festival....

private
05-14-2003, 04:38 PM
Hi quality images. You totally recreated the illustration into 3D. How long did each of the characters take?

anieves
05-14-2003, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by RAZ
Brilliant work.....got to say I couldn't look at it for long..too harrowing. It should make the cover of TIME or something.

Dude your avatar is hillarious!:D