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View Full Version : Layout crashes on save and destroys scene file



tim.bowman
02-11-2005, 07:41 AM
I am so sick of this. It just happened again. Layout just crashed again while saving my scene file. I can understand crashes. I've been using LightWave for years -- I'm used to the crashing. What I can't forgive is that Layout DESTROYED the scene file it was writing when it crashed. No more data. All work down drain.

Please, NewTek, fix this problem? There is no reason for it.

LW 8.0.1, Mac OS 10.3.8, Dual 2.5Ghz G5

I've disabled the Hub, which makes this happen less frequently (once a day, as opposed to once an hour).

blabberlicious
02-11-2005, 07:45 AM
I am so sick of this. It just happened again. Layout just crashed again while saving my scene file. I can understand crashes. I've been using LightWave for years -- I'm used to the crashing. What I can't forgive is that Layout DESTROYED the scene file it was writing when it crashed. No more data. All work down drain.

Please, NewTek, fix this problem? There is no reason for it.

LW 8.0.1, Mac OS 10.3.8, Dual 2.5Ghz G5

I've disabled the Hub, which makes this happen less frequently (once a day, as opposed to once an hour).

Did you read my notes about the Zero K bug?
Look in the 8.2 Bug section.

I can reproduce the zero K crash every time - so I generally avoid using the workspace presets in the Scene Editor - as they seen to be the source of the meltdown. Some kind of curruption as the scence attmeps to save the SE settings.

Take a look.

I feel your pain :-)

tim.bowman
02-11-2005, 12:07 PM
Did you read my notes about the Zero K bug?
Look in the 8.2 Bug section.

I can reproduce the zero K crash every time - so I generally avoid using the workspace presets in the Scene Editor - as they seen to be the source of the meltdown. Some kind of curruption as the scence attmeps to save the SE settings.

Take a look.

I feel your pain :-)

I just reviewed your "007 Scene Editor Zero K'ed - layout files - a warning..." post. Sadly, I'm seeing the same scene-destrying crash without even using any workspace presets. I've never used them. In fact -- had to go digging to find out what the heck a workspace preset is.

What blows my mind about this problem is that the safe way to save a scene file would be to [A] save the current scene file to a temp file ("scene_temp.lwo"). Then, [B] verify that the file wrote properly. After that, [C] delete the previous scene file ("scene.lwo") and [D] rename "scene_temp.lwo" to "scene.lwo". That way, if something catastrophic happens during the save, I only lose the changes since my last save, not my entire scene file.

It's not the crashing that makes me mad -- I'm pretty used to that. What gets me is that LW dies and takes my scene file with it. That's just irresponsible.

What I'm reduced to is manual incremental numbering with every save on all my scene files. We have that in Modeler, how about adding it to Layout, too?

blabberlicious
02-11-2005, 12:14 PM
Spot on.

I don't know how to break this too you - but I had sililar problems saving incrementally too....so take care.

I've had about 2 weeks on 8.2, mostly rigging and saving incrementally - witn no problems - other than the ones that have been documented.

I'dbe interested to know what type of scene you were working on. I had those problems when doing a lot of Displacement mapping.

Good luck, and post NT (needless to say)

Tony3d
02-12-2005, 08:16 AM
Ok tell me is this just a random thing or is there a pattern to it? I'm about to embark on a very big project and need to know what to avoid. Are you saying that just saving over a file will destroy it?

blabberlicious
02-12-2005, 08:28 AM
Ok tell me is this just a random thing or is there a pattern to it? I'm about to embark on a very big project and need to know what to avoid. Are you saying that just saving over a file will destroy it?

As I said, I got hit with the Zero K bug on one particular project. I'm not sure if it was some subtle combination of a object and/or particualr combination of Vmaps, Displacement maps/ Imagemaps, etc....but it was a nasty experience.

It wasn't until I tried opening a LW PC scense file, and saving it out (after applying one ot my Scene Editor Workspace presets) that it reared it's ugly head again.

Whatever the reason, it's pretty annoying.

I would save incrementally, and something like SYNK to keep hourly ghost copys of your project files , just in case it blows out.

toby
02-12-2005, 12:32 PM
Have you tried not using the new scene editor? Go back to the old one to see if this still happens? It sounds pretty closely related. I've don't use the new scene editor and I've never had this crash.

It's a work-around, but at least you'll get some work done until they fix it -

tim.bowman
02-14-2005, 08:13 AM
I'dbe interested to know what type of scene you were working on. I had those problems when doing a lot of Displacement mapping.


I'm animating heavy equipment. Boom lifts and telehandlers... Lots of hard bodies parented to each other driven with Follower. Pretty simple textures -- just some image maps for logo decals and little details. Nothing too fancy.

tim.bowman
02-14-2005, 09:44 AM
It looks like the new Scene Editor may be the culprit here.

I had a rash of crashes this morning. In a snit, I dug through the scene file and deleted all references to the Scene Editor. Now I'm working again with no crashes.

Of course, I also deleted the reference to the Unreal shader. (Which was turned off previously but not removed.) So I can't say for sure that Scene Editor was/is the culprit. But one of them seems to be the bad guy.

trison
02-21-2005, 04:35 PM
I'm having this problem as of today. I'm not sure what you mean by delete references to the scene editor. I have selection sets for the dope sheet, are these what you are talking about? Has anyone contacted Newtek about this? It seems pretty Major since it so far has completly stopped my progress on the project I'm working on.

blabberlicious
02-22-2005, 02:46 AM
I'm getting a lot of Scene Editor crashing too.

And yesterday Layout crashed during a save all objects command and corrupted a .LWO file.

Numerous crash on quitting Layout and Modeller, which is never a good sign.

Plug-ins still fail to update in the Modeler/Layout Pop up - forcing you to assign buttons or shortcuts to everything - just to access them.

When in Layout's Weight-map display - objects with transparent surfaces are totally transparent - forcing you to re-edit the surfaces to see the 'un-transparent' object.

The bugs in scene editor are serious and maddening, any perceived workflow enhancements offered in it are far outweighed by the time wasted re configuring a when it crashes.

Even more seriously, attempting to use it risks instantly corrupting the scene file.

I have mailed NT, but there has been a worrying silence for over a week, and once more I'm beginning to feel we are fiddling in the dark.

Speaking of which - can anyone explain why, after a year, the Numerical input for layout is still - imposssible to read (black on grey) and unable to focus properly when inputting & tabbing?

The bone tools remain partially broken, and the HUB continues to disappoint.

MD scan refuses to let you save out .MDD files in the directory of your choice.

NT, please chime in with some news of when we can expect something....

tim.bowman
02-22-2005, 07:19 AM
I'm having this problem as of today. I'm not sure what you mean by delete references to the scene editor. I have selection sets for the dope sheet, are these what you are talking about? Has anyone contacted Newtek about this? It seems pretty Major since it so far has completly stopped my progress on the project I'm working on.

First, make a backup of your scene file. Then open the scene file with a text editor, and look for a text block that starts with the line:

Plugin MasterHandler # SceneEditor

...and ends with the line:

EndPlugin

Delete that text block. There may be more than one instance of it in the file.

I am under the impression that posting here is the same as notifying NewTek. Is there a more proper place to report bugs?

eblu
02-22-2005, 08:54 AM
[email protected]

unfortunately, the tech support gurus of newtek aren't actually responsible for anything in the forums. if we don't tell em, they don't "officially" know.

the best way to give a bug report is over the phone, that way, the guy can walk through your problem, make you feel like you never tried any of his "suggestions" and if the bug is random and it doesn't happen while you are on the phone, then he/she feels like they "solved" your problem... but if you insist, through the phone call that this is a bug, then they file a bug report, and its official, and someone will take a look at it.

this forum isn't precisely "official." sure Newtek engineers hang out here, but its in a "freindly/helpful" way as opposed to a "I'm an engineer I can fix it" way.

trison
02-22-2005, 10:09 AM
I just called newtek about this and he told me that I should try deleting my preferences and reinstalling the 8.2 update. I killed my prefs but no luck. Now I have to call IS to reinstall the update. This problem is completly preventing me from using lightwave, it happens every time I try and save this scene now.

The help desk has heard of this before but this was all he told me.

trison
02-22-2005, 10:50 AM
I just killed all the favorites I set up in the graph editor and the selection sets in the scene editor and the crashing seems to have stopped. I'm going to try rebuilding these slowly to see If I can pinpoint what is doing it. (Like having one object in two sets) So far, the crash seemed to happen with favorites in the graph editor.

P.S. This really sucks because I have used other programs and always said they could benefit from these selection sets lightwave has. Now I wish I could use them in Lightwave :(