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View Full Version : Should I install 8.2



policarpo
01-21-2005, 04:33 PM
Posted this on SplineCage and CGTalk, but I thought I would ask here. I was just wondering if I should upgrade to 8.2 or stick with 7.5c that I use whenever I need to use LightWave. Has a general consensus been reached about the usability of 8.2, that will fill me with confidence?

Just wanting to check, cause I don't like taking the plunge in the middle of work ya know.


Thanks in advance to you folks who are informing us. I appreciate it.

theo
01-21-2005, 05:02 PM
I would- can't believe you're still using 7.5c.

hrgiger
01-21-2005, 05:13 PM
I would. I know a few people have reported some problems but they seem pretty minor to me. And of course, you always have the usual whining about what wasn't in the release.

I personally haven't had any problems thus far.

wacom
01-21-2005, 05:28 PM
If you're unsure then just re-install LW to a diffrent directory and give it a try. You'll like some things for sure- and if that odd plugin- or feature doesn't seem to be working then you'll be able to back track.

Not the slickest solution...but...

cresshead
01-21-2005, 06:15 PM
if you want to use/try the new features of lightwave 8.0 or 8.2 then yes...
if your quite happy using lightwave 7.5 then you need a good reason to invest in the 20min download and install and then see what moved around in lightwave 8.0 and 8.2....i'm not one to tell ya what to do...but if you have a good interest in lightwave and like using it then mst people woud like to be on the current version...i think i remember that you moved most of your 3d work to cinema4d so if your finding that somewhat lacking nodays then you may want to see if lightwave has the tools or user friendlyness your looking for.

steveg

policarpo
01-21-2005, 08:18 PM
if you want to use/try the new features of lightwave 8.0 or 8.2 then yes...
if your quite happy using lightwave 7.5 then you need a good reason to invest in the 20min download and install and then see what moved around in lightwave 8.0 and 8.2....i'm not one to tell ya what to do...but if you have a good interest in lightwave and like using it then mst people woud like to be on the current version...i think i remember that you moved most of your 3d work to cinema4d so if your finding that somewhat lacking nodays then you may want to see if lightwave has the tools or user friendlyness your looking for.

steveg

Statement removed by moderators.

Anyway, I was just wondering if LW 8.2 was production worthy, cause 8.0 was a bit of a miss in my book.

Cheers,
-policarpo

theo
01-21-2005, 08:59 PM
Statement removed by moderators.

Hmmm.....are we promoting other software?....as I recall Chuck did say these posts may end up.......kind of not there............

Wickster
01-21-2005, 09:41 PM
unfortunately, i don't think any of us can really i mean "REALLY" help you there. but i know do some great work. i guess what i can say is, obtain a demo and try it. for most of us (i think) here likes the update. it has some issues but what software doesn't? i wouldn't want to try it on your paying work though, just on your free time. cause the only way you can get the feel of "oh, heyyyy this nice! this is cool...definitely for me!" is to try the update. otherwise we can't even come close to describing how you will react or if you will like or not to the new features and things.

-EsHrA-
01-22-2005, 05:16 AM
Hi poli,

if 8.0 was a miss for you than 8.2 will also dissapoint you.
i'd say stay with 7.5.


esh


Statement removed by moderators.

Anyway, I was just wondering if LW 8.2 was production worthy, cause 8.0 was a bit of a miss in my book.

Cheers,
-policarpo

hrgiger
01-22-2005, 05:31 AM
if 8.0 was a miss for you than 8.2 will also dissapoint you.
i'd say stay with 7.5.


I think it would actually be helpful if you actually said why you'd stay with 7.5, as in a particular issue.

For me, being able to open an old character model, change it's interpolation method to subpatch and eliminating all the distortion on the models texture instantly has been worth the upgrade alone.

If you use Hypervoxels at all, being able to preview them now in VIPER's mosaic mode is a real timesaver. Having FPrime, it's the only thing I use VIPER for now so mosaic mode has given me a whole new reason to use it again.

Peter has told us that we're supposed to see at least a few more of these free updates before a 9.0 release so maybe you should just wait to see what's in the next update before you upgrade if you don't think it's quite worth it yet.

policarpo
01-22-2005, 08:38 AM
I think it would actually be helpful if you actually said why you'd stay with 7.5, as in a particular issue.

For me, being able to open an old character model, change it's interpolation method to subpatch and eliminating all the distortion on the models texture instantly has been worth the upgrade alone.

If you use Hypervoxels at all, being able to preview them now in VIPER's mosaic mode is a real timesaver. Having FPrime, it's the only thing I use VIPER for now so mosaic mode has given me a whole new reason to use it again.

Peter has told us that we're supposed to see at least a few more of these free updates before a 9.0 release so maybe you should just wait to see what's in the next update before you upgrade if you don't think it's quite worth it yet.

I had a lot of stability issues with 8.0, and I never felt confident using it for real work. I have lost too many scenes because of strange crashes, so I stuck with 7.5c for any real work I did. I am just trying to find out if all the bugs have been worked out before dedicating time to it.

I guess I'll reinstall 8.0 and upgrade to 8.2 to see.

Thanks for the feedback.

Lottmedia
01-22-2005, 08:49 AM
I see a lot of people complaning about stability issues with 8 and frankly I don't see it. I have 3 different machines running it and no problems at all. I think a lot of people blame problems on instability rather than say, hardware or other related issues. I think there's a lot of stone throwing at NT when really people should spend their time cleaning up their machines and making sure that they are running the best they can.

Not accusing anyone, just wanted to make a statement that's bee on my mind for a while.

J-Rod

Wade
01-22-2005, 09:07 AM
Newtek - got this right in that we can have 7.5 and 8 installed and working at the same time. My hope would be they would continue to do this as it gives me the old safty net just in case I need to fall back.

policarpo
01-22-2005, 09:35 AM
I see a lot of people complaning about stability issues with 8 and frankly I don't see it. I have 3 different machines running it and no problems at all. I think a lot of people blame problems on instability rather than say, hardware or other related issues. I think there's a lot of stone throwing at NT when really people should spend their time cleaning up their machines and making sure that they are running the best they can.

Not accusing anyone, just wanted to make a statement that's bee on my mind for a while.

J-Rod

This was on a fresh install of my Dual XEON BOXX as well as my PowerBook with a fresh install of OSX 10.3.5 (at the time). So there you have it.
:rolleyes:

mouse_art
01-22-2005, 09:40 AM
Although i have to agree with Lottmedia, test other gfx drivers, and you should see it...

BeeVee
01-22-2005, 10:32 AM
At NewTek Europe, I have ten installations of LightWave accessible (from 6.5b, through to 8.2) - and it has been as high as fourteen. You just need to redirect configs and make sure you quit the hub when you switch versions to be able to have as many different versions on your machine as you feel you need. Here's how I do it:

On a Windows PC:

1. Make a shortcut for Layout and one for Modeler;

2. Edit the properties of this shortcut so that the Target line reads something like the following:

"D:\NewTek\LightWave[8.2]\Programs\lightwav.exe -cD:\NewTek\LightWave[8.2]\config"

The first part of the line shows the LightWave.exe to load, the part after the -c is the path for you configs to go to, in this case a directory called config.

The process is similar on the Mac, but you have to edit the CMDline file that accompanies each part of the program.

The process is described in the LightWave 7 and 8 manuals.

B

Chuck
01-22-2005, 10:44 AM
This was on a fresh install of my Dual XEON BOXX as well as my PowerBook with a fresh install of OSX 10.3.5 (at the time). So there you have it.
:rolleyes:

Anyone thinking that 7.5c is more stable than any of the 8.x series needs to consider other sources than the software for any stability issues they are encountering. In the first place, 7.5d offers a number of fixes over 7.5c, and those fixes and more exist in in 8.0. If you look at the lists of fixed bugs on 8.0.1 and 8.2, again many of those issues are standing problems that exist in 7.5c and are now resolved. In our research on satisfaction with 8.0 and 8.0.1, about 90% of respondents reported that the 8.x software was as stable or more stable than versions they had worked with previously.

dalecampbelljr
01-22-2005, 11:13 AM
I see a lot of people complaning about stability issues with 8 and frankly I don't see it. I have 3 different machines running it and no problems at all. I think a lot of people blame problems on instability rather than say, hardware or other related issues. I think there's a lot of stone throwing at NT when really people should spend their time cleaning up their machines and making sure that they are running the best they can.

Not accusing anyone, just wanted to make a statement that's bee on my mind for a while.

J-Rod

Amen, Amen and again Amen!

policarpo
01-22-2005, 11:28 AM
Well, lost scenes because of crashes, invisible selected vertices and a host of other issues have kept me from upgrading to 8, and using it as a production solution.

I guess at some point I'll make the switch, but I just hate being frustrated when doing creative work.

I guess in the end, as long as the work is getting done is all that matters.

cresshead
01-22-2005, 11:39 AM
not one to "tread on toes" but those who wear sandals will always get people sqiush their feet at any opportunity available...

[read between the line on this one!]

my experience with lightwave is that at any version from 5.6, 7.0 to 7.5 and 8.0 and now 8.2 it's always been a very stable app in comparison to 3ds max at any version...

and i have some seriously under powered pc's to run it on...my by line in class is that if your pc can boot up internet explorer 1 then you can run lightwave...maybe not with huge scenes but it'll be fine in most cases where you learnng the app....we even run it on a win98se pc with 64mb ram and a 2 mb graphics card..a very humble 533mhz celeron in class...that's what i demo on mostly...using either lightwave 7.5de or lightwave 8.0de [my version runing in de mode]

it hasn't bugged out ever....not once...ask any of my students..lightwave is a rock solid app in comparsion to 3ds max..no idea how it compares to cinema but then again i have zero interest in cinema as there's any a very small studio/job usebase so no students want to learn it as there are no jobs for those that know it...it's a very capable app by most accounts but has a 0.0002% presence in the job market...freelancers may have more use for it than studios/companies.

policarpo
01-22-2005, 11:45 AM
not one to "tread on toes" but those who wear sandals will always get people sqiush their feet at any opportunity available...

[read between the line on this one!]

my experience with lightwave is that at any version from 5.6, 7.0 to 7.5 and 8.0 and now 8.2 it's always been a very stable app in comparison to 3ds max at any version...

and i have some seriously under powered pc's to run it on...my by line in class is that if your pc can boot up internet explorer 1 then you can run lightwave...maybe not with huge scenes but it'll be fine in most cases where you learnng the app....we even run it on a win98se pc with 64mb ram and a 2 mb graphics card..a very humble 533mhz celeron in class...that's what i demo on mostly...using either lightwave 7.5de or lightwave 8.0de [my version runing in de mode]

it hasn't bugged out ever....not once...ask any of my students..lightwave is a rock solid app in comparsion to 3ds max..no idea how it compares to cinema but then again i have zero interest in cinema and it's underhand ways of doing business suckering in users into mountainous upgrades for every module they sell and charge for a 0.1 upgrade too...no thank you...i'll stick with a company that care about the users they have and want to keep and not simply bleed them dry of their cash at every minor update....Hmm..8.1 for cinema added the ability to have ngons ad fbx files...well worth the 99 eh?...............not.

Huh....what does that have to do with the price of yak's milk in morocco?

I guess I should toss my machines cause they obviously are causing problems no one else is experiencing. :p

cresshead
01-22-2005, 11:58 AM
it does seem that you are having major issues that many cannot replicate...does cinema run okay on those systems you use?

if so are you running cinema in open gl or software mode or in direct x mode as lightwave uses open gl.......i know that max can have big issues with open gl and they reccomend you swithch to heidi mode to see if it's your graphics card/driver or how you have set up your open gl display...

the only ever issues i've had wit lightwave was running DE version on my sgi 320 where in graph editor you need to disable the background channels to be able to see the splines in the graph and not just the points..other than that it's been a real neat app to use day after day..

Zarathustra
01-22-2005, 12:16 PM
I just don't understand how people can be so dismissive of another's claims of bugs or instabilites. What exactly do you think you're accomplishing by doing that?

If there are users reporting trouble, then it's imperative that we take the time to listen, EVEN IF we, personally, are not currently experiencing it.

If there's a problem, I would think it's in everyone's best interest to identify it and then move on from there. Pretending they don't exist or doing some kind of distraction by responding with a list of things that do work or showing how many bugs another app has is counter-productive.

By all means, Policarpo, keep a version of 7.5 installed. I am still relying on it, soley, for all my professional 3D work because I just can't afford to take chances.
However, in my spare time I've experimented with 8.2's new render options and awhile ago played with the new bone tools in 8 (which now I can't do in 8.2, unless I can manage without using bonesplit or bonefuse).
Maintain both on your HD.
What I do is move the configs to a folder named "Configs" within the "Program" folder of each version of LW and then alter the cmdlines of Layout, Modeler and Hub to have the correct pathway to the proper "Configs" folder. This way, working in 8 won't write over your 7.5 configs and visa-versa.

policarpo
01-22-2005, 12:19 PM
it does seem that you are having major issues that many cannot replicate...does cinema run okay on those systems you use?

if so are you running cinema in open gl or software mode or in direct x mode as lightwave uses open gl.......i know that max can have big issues with open gl and they reccomend you swithch to heidi mode to see if it's your graphics card/driver or how you have set up your open gl display...

the only ever issues i've had wit lightwave was running DE version on my sgi 320 where in graph editor you need to disable the background channels to be able to see the splines in the graph and not just the points..other than that it's been a real neat app to use day after day..

OpenGL is fine. LW 8 on my 1ghz PowerBook does not display selected points in Shaded modes (you can only see them in a wireframe mode, so this makes modeling a royal pain to do on my PB- They are perfectly visible in 7.5d). I've had it crash on both the PC and the Mac at various times and zero out my scene files (I later learned that it had something to do with the old spreadsheet or something odd like that-I don't really remember). I have also had Layout just hang on start up and seize my machine. I tossed my config files, but the problem remained.

I haven't had any issues with any of the other apps I am running on any of my 3 machines. 7.5d hasn't caused nearly the problems I experienced with 8.

I guess I'll try out 8.2 and see if it resolves the issues I was experiencing. I am curious about the speed of the Bone Tools and the UVMap tool.

Cheers.

theo
01-22-2005, 12:35 PM
Well, lost scenes because of crashes, invisible selected vertices and a host of other issues have kept me from upgrading to 8, and using it as a production solution.

I guess at some point I'll make the switch, but I just hate being frustrated when doing creative work.

I guess in the end, as long as the work is getting done is all that matters.

In all fairness to Poli I also have had a MANY crashes, more than I can count, using every version of LW I have owned.

But my perspective is that I have really come to love the strength and depth of application to the point where I am willing to bear with a lot of the inherent weaknesses.

cresshead
01-22-2005, 12:37 PM
it's does seem to be a display issue...this can extend to panel such as spreadsheet as they need to be drawn over the main app's open gl display area...
and until you can narrow down the true culprit you can only hazzard a guess that it's laying at lightwave's feet and not the display driver or O/S your using or even a display setting that worked in 7.5 but did not in a later version...that's to say a display setting via your card has broken lightwave an not a "lightwave bug" it'self..
.it maybe lightwave...
but until you can hopefully make a "control" situation to narrow down such things all you can do is guess and surmise.......

as you know display drivers chop n change all the time with updates to get either more speed or nicer displays...some things that work fine for games will kill a open gl application

one option is to go basckwards to an older certified driver not a beta or atest and greatest and see if you still have issues...

not much help i kow but you have to do some detective work as there are so many display cards ad drivers out there that newtek couldn't test all of them...

you may have more luck with your mac though as there are only a few cards available so you should be able to find a mac user with a similar setup who may have a solution out there for you...try the newtek mac forum or cg talk to find out more on a posible solution..

as i've said it could be a lightwave problem...or a anitovirus software setting or an o/s issue or a display driver or a small app running in the background...so many possiblilities...and that includes a bug or bugs i lightwave itself...

Yog
01-22-2005, 12:47 PM
it does seem that you are having major issues that many cannot replicate...does cinema run okay on those systems you use?..
I would likely ammend that to "issues that some cannot replicate". If you took off those rose coloured glasses for a while and did a quick search of these forums, you would find many who have had similar display problems with LW-8.

It's ironic that other programs are touted as needing a much larger hardware base to run, but in the last year I have had Max, Modo, Maya and XSI all running fine on a 1 Gig, 512 RAM machine with a 32Mb Geoforce-2 card, yet LW-8 refused to work on the same system or even my GF-4 128Mb card. In fact I tried LW-8 on three totally different systems, and it wasn't till I upgraded one of the systems to include a Quadro-4 graphics card, that I could get LW-8 to display correctly.

policarpo
01-22-2005, 12:47 PM
it's does seem to be a display issue...this can extend to panel such as spreadsheet as they need to be drawn over the main app's open gl display area...
and until you can narrow down the true culprit you can only hazzard a guess that it's laying at lightwave's feet and not the display driver or O/S your using or even a display setting that worked in 7.5 but did not in a later version...that's to say a display setting via your card has broken lightwave an not a "lightwave bug" it'self..
.it maybe lightwave...
but until you can hopefully make a "control" situation to narrow down such things all you can do is guess and surmise.......

as you know display drivers chop n change all the time with updates to get either more speed or nicer displays...some things that work fine for games will kill a open gl application

one option is to go basckwards to an older certified driver not a beta or atest and greatest and see if you still have issues...

not much help i kow but you have to do some detective work as there are so many display cards ad drivers out there that newtek couldn't test all of them...

you may have more luck with your mac though as there are only a few cards available so you should be able to find a mac user with a similar setup who may have a solution out there for you...try the newtek mac forum or cg talk to find out more on a posible solution..

as i've said it could be a lightwave problem...or a anitovirus software setting or an o/s issue or a display driver or a small app running in the background...so many possiblilities...and that includes a bug or bugs i lightwave itself...

I guess I just want my stuff to work. I know bugs exist in every app, but when they get in the way of production work, you just have to move past it and go with something that works and doesn't cause you grief. I don't have the time nor the patience to track down and document bugs so they can be replicated (I did that before when I had the time and willingness to do so).

7.5d is working just fine for me, so I guess I'll stick with it until I have an opportunity to test out 8.2.

Cheers.

hrgiger
01-22-2005, 01:08 PM
I just don't understand how people can be so dismissive of another's claims of bugs or instabilites. What exactly do you think you're accomplishing by doing that?




I'm not sure it's that simple. I think that works both ways. How can a person who is having problems, be so dsimissive about the many's claims that they are not having problems?

I think the best thing to do is to report problems you're having, ask other users to duplicate the same things that cause your layout/modeler to crash, and see if the same happens to them. Otherwise, it's just as dismissve to just simply call Lightwave unstable because you find it so.

cresshead
01-22-2005, 01:10 PM
i would definatly agree with you about a "rose tinted glasses outlook" toward lightwave if it only worked with say the top cards out there... but as i described before, lightwave runs and displays just fine on a pc that has NO open gl card..it has to use the intergrated motherboard ram area with only 2-8mb allocated to it from win98se...that means that windows is left to try n display rather than a new shiny AGP accelerated multi meg card...and it works....it sure doesn't fly but it works..does not crash and displays okay..that bit of detective work then leaves you with the main culprit now absent seeing as we have taken out the option of a agp open gl card.......

this then means that users experiencing problems need to look toward their cards and drivers they are using regarding display issues..yeh it's a pain to track down and you'd hope that all cards would just display properly..no problemo...but they don't...maybe you should not use my "rose tinted specs" when looking at the agp cards in the pc...in the end it's a shared responsibility for newtek and the features they use/enhance with open gl and also the graphics card makers and the people who write the drivers that run them...

policarpo
01-22-2005, 01:23 PM
Like I said, I'll give it a shot when things quiet down, but for now 7.5d is working like a champ on all my machines.

Cheers.

Chuck
01-22-2005, 09:16 PM
I just don't understand how people can be so dismissive of another's claims of bugs or instabilites. What exactly do you think you're accomplishing by doing that?

People are not being dismissive when they report different results, and the reason to report those is very clear and apparent - they are saying that their experience is different and that they find the application stable and usable, which is another useful and necessary datapoint for anyone trying to evaluate the application, including the manufacturer. And in the case of what is going on in parts of this thread, if someone says that the application is so unstable it can't be used, precisely what does it accomplish to let that stand as though it is authoritative when it is in fact not the experience of most users?