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pat-lek
01-18-2005, 05:41 PM
But!!...

THE POINTS BUG IS STILL HERE !!!
>>>>>

http://patlek.chez.tiscali.fr/bazar/pointsbug.jpg


WHAT CAN I DO???

I have LW 8 since 7 month whith this bug... i don' t know what i am waiting for now !?!

I am a little bit angry... i have hope that with LW 8,2, i' ll be able to use LW 8 at last; but no... it' s just a folder on my hard disk.



Edit... It' seem to me that the only solution is to change the graphic card...

I have a powermac bipro 2 x 1,25 Ghz and a monitor Philips cathodic

Is this card:
http://www.macway.com/product_info.php?products_id=3506
Ati Radeon 9200 PCI a good one??????
What means PCI or AGP ??? what ' s the différrence???

JackDeL
01-18-2005, 08:07 PM
What means PCI or AGP ??? what ' s the différrence???

AGP is faster.

LW_Will
01-18-2005, 08:35 PM
AGP = Accellerated Graphics Port

PCI = Personal Computer Interface

Which is better? AGP.

Simply put, the AGP slot makes the graphic cards faster, allowing it to run at the speed of the processor.

My advice is to seek out new drivers for the MAC PCI card. I do not know if they are available, but I think that is the corret solution to your problem.

If not, get a minimac... ;-)

Will.. who will get a minimac any day now...

pat-lek
01-19-2005, 01:08 AM
I want a replies from Newtek.. Which cards works??? I don' t want to wait Lightwave 8,3 or 8,4 or 8,5 in how much more months??? 6 ,7,9 months??? 12!!!????
WHAT SOLUTION????


Edit... i have this card...

ATY,RV250:

Type: display
Bus: AGP
Logement: SLOT-1
VRAM (totale): 64 Mo
Fabricant: ATI (0x1002)
ID du périphérique: 0x4966
Révision ID: 0x0001
Révision ROM: 113-99702-127

WHAT IS WRONG???

pat-lek
01-19-2005, 04:17 AM
Here are the system requirement for Lightwave 8:

Macintosh:


System configuration: G4 or higher (G5 recommended) > i have it (2 G4 )

Operating System: Mac OS X 10.3.3 (Panther) > i have it (10,37)

System RAM: 512 MB for OS X (1GB recommended) > i have it (1,5GB)

230MB available harddrive space (not including content) I have it (large!)

Graphics Card:

Full OpenGL support

Latest drivers from chipset manufacturer

1024x768 minimum screen resolution (1280x1024 recommended) > ok

64MB onboard dedicated RAM per display (128MB recommended) > i have it (64MB, one display)

Ge4-ce
01-19-2005, 05:07 AM
My bet is it has nothing to do with Newtek. I have an ATI card in my powerbook. The point-bug is there. I have an nVidia card in my G5 => no pointbug!

I think ATI and Apple have some driver failures.

But Nevertheless. Newtek should at least adress the problem and keep us posted about it.

I feel your anger, and agree with it.

pat-lek
01-19-2005, 05:28 AM
Personnaly, i have send an e-mail to Ati, the only thing i have got from them; is an automatic replies... I ' m just a little customer for them. I have doing the maximum i can doing.

If this is an ATI problem, i hope that Newtek ( Surely most listen than me ) have talkin to them. And this problem can be resolved but, no in 7 months!! i found time is too long, i have waiting quietly; but now i can' t wait no more. I have buying LW 8 ; i have the dright to use it.

I never seen any news about this bug... but he EXIST ; no??

Ge4-ce
01-19-2005, 06:31 AM
Yes it exists.. And there were a lot of posts about it here in the forum. But that slowly faded away.

pat-lek
01-19-2005, 11:50 AM
Yes... i know... and a little search about this bug give:

First thread about this bug open date: 04/20/2004 (!!!)... a second; date: 05/14/2004 (!!!) and some others after... And my last...

mindful
01-19-2005, 04:29 PM
Yeah Pat Lek,

The display bug does suck and I have been so frustrated with it, and Lightwave, that I switched to Maya recently. I also went ahead and upgraded my RAM to 2GB and my card to the Nvidia Geforce Titanium 128MB card to get full Maya support. (I have a Dual G4 1.42, OS 10.3.5). I had given up on Lightwave after a final bout with Layout crashes, zeroK files and the non-functioning Hub, about 4 or 5 months ago. Well, I just checked out Modeler again after my hardware upgrade and NO POINT BUG! I was shocked! I was hoping that it was fixed with 8.2 which is why I checked out this thread but am totally surprised that it works with my new card, since I am running LW 8.0. However the bug is still there where the points and polys don't always stay selected once I switch between modes after edits and still have to move the view for them to reappear selected. So if you can find the Nvidia card (I got a great deal on ebay) it might not be a bad idea.

Anyway, I really like Lightwave (as I think all of us here do) and have been checking this forum, and Flay, now and again to see the progress. To be honest, I actually believe that Lightwave will start to work for me on my Mac at some point and so I keep hope. Love FPrime, etc... I may be upgrading my PC (which I don't use for graphics work) and at that point I may spend some more time with Lightwave.


Cheers...

pat-lek
01-19-2005, 11:37 PM
I never go on Ebay , don't want to play at the "enchere" "xxx$ one time... xxx$ two time... ? a man add five dollar here, xxx+5$ one time... etc..." i don't want to play at this game...
I just regret that Newtek don' t give us a list of graphic card without problém. And; i think that if Newtek want to do a démo version of Lightwave ( they must be do one)
on Mac, if, to run Lightwave or the Lightwave démo, a n' vidia 128 mo is needing... a lot of people don't have a card like this. I don' t know the cost of this card, but if it cost 600$/€ , you can buy Modo for this price.

And you know that a lot of mac users, when we buy a mac, the only thing we do, is to add memory.

pat-lek
01-20-2005, 01:07 AM
I don' t understand anything!!... i have searching on the web, just buy a Mac magazine, for looking for n' vidia card... going to the n' vidia french site... i don' t find where i can buy a mac n' vidia card!! Ati cards, no problem!! i can find them easely ( ati radeon 9000 (my card) is still selling, and easely to find) but n' vidia cards !! Is it the same card that for PC ? Can i go to a PC reseller??

pat-lek
01-20-2005, 06:10 AM
I found this this morning:


19/01/2005 - vente - Autres... - ATI Radeon 9800 128 Mo : 225€


Vends carte graphique ATI Radeon 9800.
Dotée de 128 Mo de RAM, cette carte donne un second souffle à votre machine.
Elle dispose d'une sortie DVD-I, d'une sortie VGA et d'une sortie S-VHS.
Elle est livrée complète avec le cordon S-VHS, un cordon composite, un adaptateur composite/S-VHS et un adaptateur DVI/VGA qui vous permet de connecter 2 écrans VGA simultannément. Bien entendu, le doubleur en "Y" qui permet d'assurer son alimentation est également fourni.


I have send an e-mail ; and have a replies, he must phone to me this evening :)


Hope that sign the end of my bug!! This card have no problem?

Hollow Earth
01-20-2005, 07:10 AM
I have been so frustrated with it, and Lightwave, that I switched to Maya recently.

Off topic, but how did you find the transition. I'll always be fond of LW but am just about to start a Maya Character Anim course......

Whit
01-20-2005, 07:33 AM
It sounds like you think the point bug only happens on a Mac with an ATI card, and that buying an nVidia card will solve the problem. It might, but I have an nVidia GeForce4 Ti 4600 on my Mac (10.3.7) and I have the point bug with LightWave 8.0.1 (haven't installed 8.2 yet).

--Whit

mindful
01-20-2005, 03:46 PM
Pat-Lek
I think ebay is pretty great as I have gotten tons of stuff and once you understand how it works, (it's not really like a regular auction) it's an awesome resource. You can just try a search for Nvidia (or ATI) and then sort through by Mac on the left. It really is worth a try... I happened to get a brand new, never installed card that someone never even opened for about US $175 (-they don't make them anymore-) and I saw many around $300!! You may find a real cheap one and then if it doesn't solve your problem (of course that would suck...) then you are not out too much money. Just check the seller's feedback and you are good-to-go.

Also, I think the ATI card you are talking about was a good one but it didn't have support for my dual monitors which are both digital. It has a VGA out. Bummer... Otherwise I would have considered it. I don't know if that is an issue for you.

As far as I know it must be a Mac card, not a PC. You can search the Apple site for your computer model and see what card options they were offering at the time and then you know that those will work.

Whit makes a good point though, that the card may not solve the point problem. I just happened to find that the Nvidia card works with my setup. (Alias has a list of the cards that are supported in Maya and the Nvidia was one of the few that had full support.)


Hollow Earth
I really like Lightwave too and the transition to Maya has been pretty easy in some ways and kinda tough in others. First off, it pretty much just works - very rarely crashes. A lot of things in Lightwave didn't so that by itself was cool. It is very powerful and a lot of things are pretty straightforward like dynamics and rigging.
One great thing for me is that the modeler is not a separate app. Need a model? Build it. Wanna check the render? Render. The Hub never worked well for me and so this was a great relief. The biggest difference is that Maya is node based and that can take some getting used to. Texturing is different but as I get used to it, I find it is really powerful. Character animation is what Maya is known for and so you should have a great time. Just be patient and you'll have a blast.

Cheers!

Hollow Earth
01-21-2005, 06:10 AM
Pat-Lek
Hollow Earth
I really like Lightwave too and the transition to Maya has been pretty easy in some ways and kinda tough in others. First off, it pretty much just works - very rarely crashes. A lot of things in Lightwave didn't so that by itself was cool. It is very powerful and a lot of things are pretty straightforward like dynamics and rigging.
One great thing for me is that the modeler is not a separate app. Need a model? Build it. Wanna check the render? Render. The Hub never worked well for me and so this was a great relief. The biggest difference is that Maya is node based and that can take some getting used to. Texturing is different but as I get used to it, I find it is really powerful. Character animation is what Maya is known for and so you should have a great time. Just be patient and you'll have a blast.

Cheers!

thanks for the feedback mindful

mindful
01-21-2005, 03:59 PM
No problem Hollow,

BTW, what Maya CA class are you taking?

Kurtis
01-21-2005, 04:11 PM
Everyone,

Please remember that discussion of competing products (including training classes) is off-topic for these forums and against moderation policy. If this thread starts to go in that direction, it will be closed.

JackDeL
01-22-2005, 02:55 AM
Everyone,

Please remember that discussion of competing products (including training classes) is off-topic for these forums and against moderation policy. If this thread starts to go in that direction, it will be closed.


Well, nice to hear from someone at Newtek. How about some help with pat-lek's problem? :mad:

harlan
01-22-2005, 11:09 AM
Well, nice to hear from someone at Newtek. How about some help with pat-lek's problem? :mad:

Exactly! God forbid they do something useful when they pop in! :)

Kurtis
01-22-2005, 02:25 PM
Sorry. Didn't realize trying to keep the forum and the thread on topic, to keep it from being removed or closed, wasn't useful. ;)

Sounds to me like others have been attempting to help pat-lek address his problem. If I had more to add to the equation, I would. As soon as someone in Engineering has more to add, I'm sure they will.

JackDeL
01-22-2005, 03:15 PM
Sorry. Didn't realize trying to keep the forum and the thread on topic, to keep it from being removed or closed, wasn't useful. ;)

Sounds to me like others have been attempting to help pat-lek address his problem. If I had more to add to the equation, I would. As soon as someone in Engineering has more to add, I'm sure they will.

Kurtis, with all due respect; I realize you are doing your job. But my point is this, Pat-lek has serious issues with your product, and the only time we hear from anyone at Newtek is if we stray off topic? I think that is very poor customer service. Do you remember the Modeler crash issue under 10.2.5/6? That took nearly 8 months of "the blame game" between Apple, Newtek & ATI, before somebody got off the pot and did something. That was 8 months of time I personally lost using your product. That is also very poor customer service. All any of us users can do is help trouble shoot his set up etc. we can't fix anything that is broken on your end. I would respectfully request that you get one of your engineers on this, because it is really obvious from the deafening silence that they consider us Mac users beneath them.

Our money is green too. :mad:

Kurtis
01-22-2005, 03:38 PM
JackDeL,

I think you're overgeneralizing a bit here. members of NewTek's new Engineering Team participate in this forum on a regular basis (much of it on their own time), including Andrew, Peter, Elmar, and Scott, and I'd happily refer you to my public profile as reference to my attempts to help people on this forum. Yes, keeping the forum on topic and on track is part of my job, but I'd like to think we as a company, and I personally, do a little more than warn people away from problem areas.

NewTek has expressed the new Engineering Team's commitment to development for the Mac on a number of occasions. I don't know of any other way I can do that, so I'm not going to delve into that one here.

As to someone from NewTek responding to the issue itself, all I can say is what I have already said, Engineering is aware of the issue. As soon as they have something further and substantial that they can contribute to the discussion they will. Until that time, the best thing they can do is to devote their energies to resolving it and allowing the users on this forum to help each other troubleshoot the issue, both to offer users immediate help and to use that information to further their own progress.

JackDeL
01-22-2005, 04:24 PM
JackDeL,

NewTek has expressed the new Engineering Team's commitment to development for the Mac on a number of occasions. I don't know of any other way I can do that, so I'm not going to delve into that one here.

As to someone from NewTek responding to the issue itself, all I can say is what I have already said, Engineering is aware of the issue. As soon as they have something further and substantial that they can contribute to the discussion they will. Until that time, the best thing they can do is to devote their energies to resolving it and allowing the users on this forum to help each other troubleshoot the issue, both to offer users immediate help and to use that information to further their own progress.

Fair Enough.

harlan
01-22-2005, 11:14 PM
Sorry. Didn't realize trying to keep the forum and the thread on topic, to keep it from being removed or closed, wasn't useful. ;)

Sounds to me like others have been attempting to help pat-lek address his problem. If I had more to add to the equation, I would. As soon as someone in Engineering has more to add, I'm sure they will.

Well, I was actually being a little sarcastic with my statement as I know you're in the marketing department and not the coding/tech deptarment - too bad there's no "sarcasticon". :)

That being said, I do find it a little disheartening that the point display bug is still present after all this time, but I'm sure it'll be fixed eventually - I just wish it were fixed yesterday rather than tomorrow ya know, especially being that its knowingly been around for 2 bug squashing point releases.

Kurtis
01-22-2005, 11:35 PM
Well, I was actually being a little sarcastic with my statement as I know you're in the marketing department and not the coding/tech deptarment - too bad there's no "sarcasticon". :)

Harlan,

For what it's worth, I figured you were, hence the wink at the end of my first sentence.

I want to assure everyone that when I say Engineering is aware of the issue and actively working on it, it's not just Marketing speak. Even though I admit to not being a Mac person myself, I speak to programmers working on the Mac end on a daily basis.

Hey, for that matter I'm even considering one of the new Mini Macs myself. :cool:

JackDeL
01-23-2005, 12:30 AM
Hey, for that matter I'm even considering one of the new Mini Macs myself. :cool:

The only reason I decided not to get a Mac Mini was the lack of dual monitor ports. I gotta have my two headed Lightwave monster! ;)

wacom
01-23-2005, 12:31 PM
They are also not that upgradeable (mini-macs) and I can't see how anyone doing anything with LW would OPT for one over a G4/G5 tower. The video card in it BLOWS for 3D work- and the RAM....ugh.

It's a nice, sexy computer, but I wouldn't use it for professional tasks.

PS has anyone tried using diffrent/new drivers for their video cards? On the PC side some people were getting things going well by tricking their ATI cards into using FireGL drivers. I'd try turing off ALL features in your card and then slowly adding them back from the most basic first to see if it helps. No AA, etc.

wacom
01-23-2005, 01:02 PM
Also- instead of just saying "I can't see points!" you should always list A: the exact model of Mac you have even going so far as the revision date and B: the graphics card and drivers. What video settings are you using? What special OS X visual effects are you using? Which version of OS X are you using? This should be easy, but not all Mac people are having problems, so to track the problem and narrow it down this would help. Then NewTek can ask the manufactures about card X in detail and not their whole product line.

tischbein3
01-23-2005, 01:05 PM
Hey, for that matter I'm even considering one of the new Mini Macs myself. :cool:

now WHO has gone off topic ? :D

Kurtis
01-23-2005, 01:45 PM
now WHO has gone off topic ? :D

Yep. Bad Kurtis! :D

policarpo
01-23-2005, 02:23 PM
I have a 1ghz PowerBook with a 64mb ATI 9000 card running OSX 10.3.7, and I cannot see any selected points on shaded meshes in 8.01. I haven't upgraded to 8.2, because I cannot model with this particular bug. It's a workflow killer, and I cannot swap video cards since it is a laptop. So I take it the bug is still there in 8.2?

Has anyone figured out a work-around? I am using 7.5d since this bug isn't in that version.

Cheers.

Whit
01-23-2005, 02:41 PM
I have two work-arounds, of sorts:


Right-click in any view (Top, Back, Right, Perspective, etc.) and the points become visible in that view (but only that view).

or

Alt-tab to another program and then alt-tab back to modeler. All the points are visible in all the views.


--Whit

Erizo
01-23-2005, 03:00 PM
I have a Powerbook G4 1,33 and a Ati 9600 64Mb in iti and i don´t have that bug using Lightwave 7.5d.

pat-lek
01-23-2005, 03:20 PM
Also- instead of just saying "I can't see points!" you should always list A: the exact model of Mac you have even going so far as the revision date and B: the graphics card and drivers. What video settings are you using? What special OS X visual effects are you using? Which version of OS X are you using? This should be easy, but not all Mac people are having problems, so to track the problem and narrow it down this would help. Then NewTek can ask the manufactures about card X in detail and not their whole product line.
Just saying "i can't see points!"? ; Have you read all the thread?; and for your information, it' s not the first thread about this bug.
Erff... What's "special OS X visual effects"???

wacom
01-23-2005, 03:47 PM
Just saying "i can't see points!"? ; Have you read all the thread?; and for your information, it' s not the first thread about this bug.
Erff... What's "special OS X visual effects"???

ANYTHING that effects the video and may be excellerated/changed/used by your video card. I know it's not the first thread, I'm just wanting to see if there is any relation to the type of Mac you use, the OS X version, the Video Card, and the current drivers installed. In fact I KNOW that these things have something to do with it. Make sure you look to see which version of video drivers you have etc. I've started a thread here:

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=32828

I think this problem is so major that it should have it's own offical bug thread. PC users have issues too with their graphics cards, and there could be some overlap, that's why I think it would be good to have ALL graphical bugs listed in one place and solutions if any.

Just a thought.

pat-lek
01-23-2005, 03:58 PM
I know... but, you are on a PC, there 's some spécificity on the mac... by example; the drivers are all including in the Os update (automatic, you don' t have to go to the ATI drivers page)... 10,35.. 10,36... 10,37 now

I'll go post on your thread soon

(By i ll change my graphic card soon, Wednesday i hope, i have buying the card mentionned higher (Ati Radeon 9800))

Whit
01-23-2005, 04:13 PM
Policarpo asked about work-arounds which got me thinking about a plug-in.

I noticed that when selected points (or polygons) are not visible because of this problem, inverting the selection twice makes the selected points (or polygons) visible again. A plug-in that would

1) toggle between point and polygon mode
2) invert selection twice

would solve the problem. I could map that plug-in to the space bar (which is how I switch between point and polygon mode).

I started on an LScript, but inverting the selection twice is too slow, it needs to be compiled.

Maybe one of the engineers at Newtek could write such a plug-in to help people while the longer term solution gets worked out???

--Whit