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View Full Version : 8.2 doesnt like to load tiffs on OSX



ddaniels
01-18-2005, 03:31 PM
Hey 8.2 will wig out on you if you have tiff imags for texturs and may casue scene to crash before it ever loads yippeee

marble_sheep
01-18-2005, 04:00 PM
crap... you're right. I just loaded a scene i'm working on that uses lots of tiffs for textures and it died. So... if you use a lot of tiffs... DON'T UPGRADE. Now I have to go and re-install 8.0.1

I tried re-installing the plugins and all that good stuff... no luck. Pretty big bug!

ddaniels
01-18-2005, 04:07 PM
it is possibly to open the objects with tiffs as textures in modler and replace the texture but that is kinda of a crappy way of doing things. PLease fix this bugg

Scott Wendler
01-18-2005, 04:28 PM
I disabled the hub and Iím able to load my scenes that use tiffs as textures now.
OS X 10.3.7
Lightwave 8.2

3dworks
01-18-2005, 04:36 PM
I disabled the hub and Iím able to load my scenes that use tiffs as textures now.
OS X 10.3.7
Lightwave 8.2

no problems here with TIF textures, but i have disabled my hub by default...
OSX 10.3.7 too.

Darth Mole
01-18-2005, 04:50 PM
Yep, same here. Goddammit - why the hell is this broken now? It was working fine. I might try using the old Tiff.p loader...

This is a REALLY basic function of the app - who the hell missed it? So much for the rigorous Mac testing. Not the best of starts :-(

Darth Mole
01-18-2005, 05:01 PM
Ha! It works! Just use your old Tiff.p plug-in from the LW 7 install disc. I have no idea if it's breaking something else (like I care), but at least I can open the scene I was working on.

Hey, NewTek, maybe I should help beta test your software...

(As a sidenote, the funny panel that opens up reminds me of the one I used to get using Lynx 3D's 16-bit TIFF importer. I wonder if it's the same plug-in? Wouldn't surprise me - NT use a lot of third-party code to fix holes in LW.)

cgolchert
01-18-2005, 05:35 PM
Not making an excuse for any texture loading problems but, why are you using a format like tiff for textures?

brayne
01-18-2005, 06:40 PM
Why not use TIF? It's very versatile and it's lossless.

BeeVee
01-19-2005, 02:05 AM
So is PNG - it has alpha, lossless compression and loads fast...

B

Darth Mole
01-19-2005, 03:03 AM
Are these formats 16-bit though? You need a 16-bit TIFF for good quality displacement mapping.

And anyway, stop changing the subject - the TIFF importer crashes LW 8.2!

brayne
01-19-2005, 05:05 AM
So is PNG - it has alpha, lossless compression and loads fast...


Sorry Darth, but I have to change the subject again. The question still stands: Why not use TIFF? Apart from the obvious that it makes 8.2 crash. I realise everyone has there own favourite file format, and I make no criticism of anyone for using what they want to use, but I don't see what's wrong with the TIFF format for textures.

3dworks
01-19-2005, 05:35 AM
Sorry Darth, but I have to change the subject again. The question still stands: Why not use TIFF? Apart from the obvious that it makes 8.2 crash. I realise everyone has there own favourite file format, and I make no criticism of anyone for using what they want to use, but I don't see what's wrong with the TIFF format for textures.

i would like to add: one of the main reasons to use TIFF images is that many commercial texture collections use it! i have seen no one single commercial collection with the PNG format yet. another one is that that's the format all my other applications in the pipeline handle the best.

but as for the TIFF crash bug, i did now a test with my hub activated (normally deactivated with the cmdline) and my TIFs are still loaded correctly. i can add also new TIFF image texture layers - no crash. maybe only some flavours of TIF files cause this problem?

markus

cgolchert
01-19-2005, 07:09 AM
Why not use TIF? It's very versatile and it's lossless.

If you want to use that argument... for one reason, it sounds like it crashes LW. ;)

That is great that texture collections use it. They usually come on a CD or DVD and they need to fill the disk for marketing purposes. Would you buy one of their disks if it was only 5-10% full? One person might but another will say that they are getting ripped off...marketing. Another reson could be is that there are quite a few people (like you guys) that get into a format groove/zone/rut and never switch.

Again along those same lines... many studios use png as a render format because it is more versatile, lossless AND small.

png can be a 16 bit format photoshop loads and saves all 16 bits. LW loads both png AND tiff as 24 bit though. So what is it you are doing with that extra bit depth that gets thrown away when you load it? (rememeber someone had to write a 16bit tiff loader to get the zbrush displacement tiffs into LW)

eblu
01-19-2005, 09:20 AM
Again along those same lines... many studios use png as a render format because it is more versatile, lossless AND small.


png is a good format. I don't use it unless I am forced too. why? its not always lossless... it can be lossy, in fact it takes alot out of the gif format, because it was designed to replace gif as the 'web' image format. another way of saying that is that png uses compression that throws away data. Tiff, and TGA don't. which is why, in my elements I try to use lossless compression only. ie tiffs for stills, or the animation codec for quicktime. Its not a hard/fast rule, but it saves against digital generation loss that can actually increase the size of your compressed files.

for example... jpegs are nice and small, but they introduce blocky noise to soft gradients and fills. this is a visual effect caused by the lossy compression, it happens with every lossy compression scheme to some extent even if you can't see it. so you open a jpeg in photoshop and paint out a problem, color correct it or whatever... the next time you save the file... the Blockiness, is treated as Image data, and compressed as detail in the image, substantially increasing the size of the file while decreasing its accuracy. This happens to some degree with every lossy compression technique, so what do they do to counter this obvious problem? most lossy compression techniques offer you the ability to scale the amount of compression, and at the high end of the spectrum... the compression is so slight that you don't actually see any savings in file sizes.

I prefer to go with a format that doesn't even bother with lossy compression techniques for my elements, that way I Know that my elements are clean.

png is great for delivery. Tiff is the defacto 'pristine image' format of choice for me.

JML
01-19-2005, 10:06 AM
I have the same problem in 8.2 with tif files on PC
(screamernet could not understand what tif was)
hopefully replacing the tif plugin with the old one will fix it..

cgolchert
01-19-2005, 10:20 AM
png is lossy when you use the 8bit version, not the 24 bit one.

JML
01-19-2005, 10:41 AM
nevermind... screamernetnet (on pc) said it did not know what a tif was but
then it rendered the textures fine...??
something weird..
I replaced the tif plugin with the older one just in case..

Darrell
01-19-2005, 11:17 AM
i don't think it should matter which compression is better...the problem is some of them don't work...therefore why newtek should include a compression importer plugin that don't work...i believe the user should be able to use any comression he or she chooses if the program claims to support it. I'm working on a short movie project with another LW user who uses jpg's for his work. When we share files I have to convert the textures to a targa, tif, or png to prevent my LW from crashing. I hate that!!!!. now with 8.2 i can't use png or tiff...why should i now have to convert 30+ images???

BeeVee
01-19-2005, 11:42 AM
png is lossy when you use the 8bit version, not the 24 bit one.

PNG is *never* lossy as far as I know.

B

Darth Mole
01-19-2005, 12:26 PM
Offf topic, but I thought the horrible black bold numbers and 'sticky' highlighting was going to be fixed in this version? This black values on dark grey colour scheme is - I think - just awful. And when you Tab between boxes, the figures are still highlighted.

brayne
01-19-2005, 02:07 PM
If you want to use that argument... for one reason, it sounds like it crashes LW. ;)
...as I said in my earlier message. ;)


Again along those same lines... many studios use png as a render format because it is more versatile, lossless AND small.

Although I question that png is more versatile than tiff, I accept that file size is a very good reason for using it. A png is around 10% smaller than an LZW TIFF, and I guess that can make a difference once the images start piling up.

Of course, to go back to the original reason behind this thread, for people like myself who have literally hundreds of tiff surfaces in their library, we would really like to see this bug ironed out!

ddaniels
01-19-2005, 03:06 PM
well we use tiffs because we are a print production facility and it is what the priinter wants so we like to keep the same formats through our workflows. So a lot of old scenes have tiff files.

Allen Curtis
01-24-2005, 09:53 AM
Has anyone tried a LZW tiff and then tried a tiff with no compression? In 2d printing, when working with tiff files, I use tiff files with no compression because LZW compressed tiffs sometimes cause problems when opening or printing from other programs or when transferring between Mac & PC's. Thought it might be worth a try to verify if that's a possible cause. I don't have the update, so can't test it myself.

Kuzey
01-26-2005, 05:36 AM
This sounds a lot like the great .jpg bug of v7xx, where .jpg extensions would crash lw but .jpeg would load fine??

So, try renaming the extension to .tif if you're using .tiff or the other way around and see if it loads.

Just a wild guess :p

Kuzey

Kuzey
01-26-2005, 05:45 AM
or you could remove the tiff.p pulgin to the desktop and see if quicktime can do the job instead.

Kuzey

Captain Obvious
01-26-2005, 07:55 AM
png is a good format. I don't use it unless I am forced too. why? its not always lossless... it can be lossy, in fact it takes alot out of the gif format, because it was designed to replace gif as the 'web' image format. another way of saying that is that png uses compression that throws away data. Tiff, and TGA don't. which is why, in my elements I try to use lossless compression only. ie tiffs for stills, or the animation codec for quicktime. Its not a hard/fast rule, but it saves against digital generation loss that can actually increase the size of your compressed files.

for example... jpegs are nice and small, but they introduce blocky noise to soft gradients and fills. this is a visual effect caused by the lossy compression, it happens with every lossy compression scheme to some extent even if you can't see it. so you open a jpeg in photoshop and paint out a problem, color correct it or whatever... the next time you save the file... the Blockiness, is treated as Image data, and compressed as detail in the image, substantially increasing the size of the file while decreasing its accuracy. This happens to some degree with every lossy compression technique, so what do they do to counter this obvious problem? most lossy compression techniques offer you the ability to scale the amount of compression, and at the high end of the spectrum... the compression is so slight that you don't actually see any savings in file sizes.

I prefer to go with a format that doesn't even bother with lossy compression techniques for my elements, that way I Know that my elements are clean.

png is great for delivery. Tiff is the defacto 'pristine image' format of choice for me.

You're right about the increasing lack of quality when re-compressing to a lossy format. It's true for images, video and audio. But you're wrong about both PNG and GIF being lossy. They're not. GIF is 100% lossless, and as is PNG. You can add lossy compression to GIF to further reduce file size, though. But the main limitation of GIF is that the max amount of colours is 256. This does reduce image quality, but re-compressing it does not further reduce quality so it doesn't count as a lossy format.

mwh710
02-01-2005, 01:26 PM
Yep, .tif's crash LW 8.2 & I don't have an older version to get the 7.0 .tif plug-in. NewTek... can you post it as a interem solution/download for those of us that came in on 8.0.

marinello2003
02-18-2005, 09:41 AM
Yup me too :) In fact I am having problems with JPEG and others too!

Also, can anyone even load F-Prime in 8.2?

-brent