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View Full Version : VT4 & SP1 still locks constantly



steveg
01-17-2005, 04:34 PM
Paul or someone! Do you know the reasons for VT4 locking up when dragging clips to timeline? If not you need to tell us to go back and uninstall VT4 To go back to VT3 until it is fixed. Please let us know. VT3 did not lock up like this. It seems to be about every 10 to 15 minutes for me. Also the cg crashes the toaster when you backspace across most lines of text. What changed there from VT3 to VT4. We need to know what to do. This is not the time to keep quiet. WE need to know now what you are doing about this.

radams
01-17-2005, 11:05 PM
AS for lock ups with drag and drop...VT3 had just as many crashes as I've seen with VT4 infact I've seen more with VT3 than with VT4...but I do agree that what ever it is needs to be tracked down and squashed.

FOr me it isn't just with TED...but anywhere I use drag and drop....
There seems to be an intermittent that causes errors and lockups etc...when doing so in the UI.

At least that is what I've found out...

Please those that are having the most lockups...try this instead of drag and drop....

try just RMB click and copy the file then Paste it into the timeline...

Try this on projects that have been issues for you and see if you get the same frequency of lockups....

This can help to find out if it the clips and materials..an app issues or drag and drop operational issue..(be it with graphics drivers or what ever)....

Let us know what you find out...

Cheers,

ScorpioProd
01-18-2005, 01:06 AM
Before VT[4], I used to have drag and drop problems with groups of AVI clips, but that seems to have been fixed as of VT[4] for me, BUT...

As of VT[4]SP1 I get a number of lockups when dragging and dropping ONE or a group of still JPG images into VT-Edit. I'm positive it is happening more for SP1 with my system than before.

Still JPGs are a normal part of what I do, from my digital still camera or from my scanner. And VT[4] claims to support the JPG format properly.

Luckily, my lockups with them are intermittent, so as long as I save frequently and use the undo stack, I don't lose much in a lockup.

But still, this does need to be fixed by Newtek.

I will try your suggestion Ray.

radams
01-18-2005, 01:22 AM
I Totally agree with you Eugene...

And we and NT needs to know if it is a source issue, codec/image format, application/driver issue, or operational issue (drag and Drop)...and since this is intermittent..even thou it occurs quit often....we need to try to isolate it for NT to squash it...

For those with these lockups...try to see if you have a clip type that always locks up the system...and do as I asked....copy / paste....what happens?

Try to keep little notes of what types of clips caused it....

and note the Gaphics card and driver revision.

I too want to nail this puppy...but I think it will take all of us to help bash this nasty...

Cheers,

radams
01-18-2005, 01:26 AM
Has anyone gotten lockups when dragging projects or subs into DDRs from TED?

Or when trying to drag a clip ontop of another clip to inherit the other clips settings?

I have...and which is another reason..I have concerns for the drag and drop operations...in VT...

When I copy/paste I have little to no issues...it only seems to be with drag and drop...

Cheers,

ScorpioProd
01-18-2005, 01:39 AM
In regards to your question about drag and drop of projects, I had an actual CRASH today when I dragged and dropped a sequence from one VT-Edit into another VT-Edit session.

I re-did the same operation with a copy and paste operation and it worked correctly.

radams
01-18-2005, 01:53 AM
Can you reproduce the crash or lock up with the same project when dragging and dropping?

If so...get this to NT ASAP...

I have had myself the same thing but it would crash or lockup VT about every 10th time or so...and it wasn't consistent...

I did have a client who had a folder full of various clips and codecs....and if we selected all and then dragged and dropped about every third time it would crash or lock up VT....BUT if we copied and pasted it would turn for a minute or two but then would work without crashing or locking up....

If you dragged and dropped each clip indivitually or in small groups 2 -4 clips...all was fine...but 20 or more would lock up...

Cheers,

Terrence
01-18-2005, 09:16 AM
raises hand, hey im great at crashing the system. is this somthing i should br proud of?

ted
01-18-2005, 01:38 PM
In my case...
There is no rhyme or reason, (that I have found).
It happens at random when I "Drag and Drop" a file to TED.
It has happened on .rtv's, .png's and .wav files.
It has happened when dragging from the Video Array as well as a system or data drive.
It happens about 2-3 times per 8-hour session. Usually doing about 50-75 drag and drops per session.

Task Manager needs 2 to 3 attempts to close VT4. Then I'll kill winrtme and be fine for several more D&D's???

I donít' have much else on my system but VT4, DVD workshop, Photoshop which I almost never use on this system and Norton which I won't have a computer without Norton installed.

I even avoided installing Bob's plug-ins on SP1, (sorry Bob), to no avail.
I've defragged, system checked and the only new addition is VT4 SP1.
I don't think I ever got it on VT2 or 3.

I have Direct X C or 3, (the latest).
My NVIDIA Card only has 64 mg's. I have heard that NewTek now recommends 128???

I have a dual 2.2 Super Micro MB with 1 Gig of ram.

Keep the info coming. It seems there are a large handful of people out there experiencing the same thing. Odly enough, many people are not getting it???

Ivan
01-18-2005, 02:00 PM
I have the 128meg NVidia and 2 gigs of memory. I experience this as well but shut down via ctrl-V-T works in one attempt. I do have Bob's plugins installed and they work fine. I think many are experiencing it and like me not saying anything because I edit alone mostly and a quick reboot of VT is part of the day, I hardly think about it because I save often and haven't really lost anything.

Ivan

radams
01-18-2005, 02:27 PM
Please realize this is not just an issue for post users...who can recover in many situations...with a quick reboot and reload...

But for LIVE production this is a KILLER and can really screw up a setup and settings...I have had on occasion had to reset all configs in VT and even power down and then power back up...I even had a lockup that required me to re configure VT...so this is NOT something that can be accepted....

The only work around I've found so far is to NOT drag and drop...

but drag and drop comes so easy and natural...and has so many benefits for both LIVE and POST...but with the flakiness it has..makes it mostly a bomb waiting to go off..

Cheers,

steveg
01-18-2005, 04:01 PM
I do get many times more crashes when I have ToasterEdit on my Right monitor. I have experimented and find I have very few crashes while dragging clips to TEd when my ToasterEdit module is on my Left monitor. Does anyone see the same results or am I just crazy, or maybe both. Has anyone else having a lot of crashes checked to see if they are mostly on their right monitor or left?

ted
01-18-2005, 04:16 PM
Mine is on the right monitor.
I'll try it on the left for tomorrow's session.

ScorpioProd
01-18-2005, 09:53 PM
As Ray says, this is a fatal problem in LIVE use.

But for POST, as Ivan points out, I wouldn't think many of us would necessarily complain about this since it IS intermittent and we can recover.

I wouldn't have posted about it if others hadn't started the thread.

Frankly, I don't expect any NLE system to be totally rock solid and free from any lockups or crashes ever, experience has shown me this is never really true.

That said, I think we have all pointed out enough issues with drag and drop that Newtek should look into it. It is their product, and they know how it works better than we do.

GrayingMatter
01-22-2005, 12:58 AM
I've been out of town for a few days, but I'm one of the ones who started this thread two or three weeks ago.

I never had Drag and Drop problems before VT4. Toaster Edit is always on the left screen and my Filebin is on the right, so I am D & D'ing across monitors.

It is intermittent and it is an annoyance and I agree I can survive. But it would be nice to have it fixed.

And I do have 128mb on the graphics card.



Dick

JReble
01-22-2005, 05:59 AM
On perhaps a related issue; I've noticed that in TED when I've got a file bin in the top and the timeline in the bottom, when I drag the divider between the two sections up or down to make the top larger than the bottom or visa versa, I get lots of screen glitches. It just doesn't refresh the gui frame edges and it clones and repeats the frame edge until you let go of the mouse button. This doesn't introduce a real problem, but it didn't happen in VT3. I've got the prefs setup for best performance on the display and this same system didn't give this problem before. It's just interesting as I am leaning more and more toward there being display related problems with the VT4 software. I'm really beginning to think my continual and sporatic "no video signal present. potential driver lockup" problem is related to the display somehow. Often switching to the desktop and running other apps then maximizing VT4 again will make it appear.

SBowie
01-22-2005, 08:48 AM
IIt is intermittent and it is an annoyance and I agree I can survive. But it would be nice to have it fixed.It seems to be a pervasive enough issue that methinks "someone" needs to send "someone else" a debugger version....

Paul Lara
01-26-2005, 12:20 PM
Steve, Terrence, Eugene, Ray, et al,
I wanted to update you all on this important issue.

NewTek engineering has taken this on as a HIGH priority to find the bug, and flatten it. We have some interesting leads we're working on.

It seems it may not be just the drag-n-drop, but were you perhaps doing something in Control tree immediately prior to dragging in that new clip?

Let me know!

radams
01-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Hi Paul,


Thanks for the update....

When I've had my freezes it had nothing to do with the control tree...it was drag and drops to DDRs...and doing inherited clips in DDR or TED...mostly with quick movement or inaccurate moving around the location where I would drop...

Also dragging and dropping 20 or 40+ clips...

So no control tree with these operations...

I have also seen freezing when dragging subs up to DDRs...

Cheers,

Ivan
01-26-2005, 12:41 PM
The one time that I saw this it was a fresh start and all I had done previous is drag a couple clips in, change directroy and try to drag in another clip and it froze.

Ivan

Paul Lara
01-26-2005, 04:37 PM
Thanks for the feedback, guys, this has been very helpful!
We're now hot on the trail of this bug, and I believe a squashing sound is imminent.
:cool:

ted
01-26-2005, 09:34 PM
Squish-squish. Thank Goodness!
I know how tough things like these can be to knock down. And it appears to be sort of unrelated to the drag and drop symptoms we described. (Sorry). Which made it more difficult to diagnose.

I gotta say, thanks NewTek for putting this HIGH on the priority list, because it was starting to make my clients think twice about our system, and our dedication to their projects.

I'm still trying to figure out why it only affected a large handful of users and seemingly not others??? :confused:

Jim Capillo
01-27-2005, 03:49 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why it only affected a large handful of users and seemingly not others??? :confused:

Ted, I reproduced it on my system yesterday, so I think it might be present on all systems, but relative to workflow, some might not be seeing it. For instance, I usually drag all my working clips out via storyboard before working them in timeline..... so it is rare that I change a clip in Control Tree and then drag a new clip out.

But, I was able to make the bug happen...... :eek:

JReble
01-27-2005, 04:41 AM
Paul, is this bug you're chasing related to the "no video signal present. potential driver lockup" problem many of us are having?? There are several of us out here with systems that worked fine, but now we're continually loosing program video and getting this error. It seems there's a problem with WinRTME that is causing this sporatically. It's not locking up the software or the preview bus, just dropping the program video feed and requiring an exit, killing winrtme and a restart of the VT software. This is a real problem that has not been commented on yet by anyone from Newtek from what I've seen. What's going on with it?

Paul Lara
01-27-2005, 08:51 AM
Paul, is this bug you're chasing related to the "no video signal present. potential driver lockup" problem many of us are having??

I don't believe they're related.


This is a real problem that has not been commented on yet by anyone from Newtek from what I've seen. What's going on with it?

It could be the driver, but it could also be hardware. When I've had this happen on my demo machines, it was alleviated by swapping PCI slots, or cleaning contacts or swapping cards.

c111smith
01-28-2005, 05:50 AM
Just a 2cents worth here. In VT3 I drag and drop quite a bit from file bin on top half of edit screen to timeline on the bottom. No problems at all. And I'm one who changes his mind in mid-drop a lot! The only thing I don't do a lot of is multi-file D&Ds. BTW: I almost never use "Add Media", just the File Bin.

Rich Deustachio
01-28-2005, 12:40 PM
Locking up really hit me yesterday. It started after working in my file bins going from my G drive (storage drive) and copying and pasting short clips from there to my F drive which is my working video editing drive. After several times of doing this I went to go back to the G drive and when the folders appeared VT4 locked up. I rebooted and restarted VT4 several times only to find it locked up everytime I accessed that drive. I rebooted again and before opening up VT4 I deleted the Toaster Info folder for that drive. After two more VT4 starts, lock-ups and reboots it finnaly worked.

My not be related to the same thing as the others but I wanted to post about it.

tfrank
02-17-2005, 10:09 AM
I have been too busy doing spots and re-booting to monitor the forum, but I am having the same problems as many people on my VT4 system. #1) Freezes during drag & drop. #2) Freezes just drilling through the file bin. #3) And last but not least, the infamous "no video signal present. potential driver lockup". I am trying to work through this with my toaster dealer who installed everything...but this is getting pretty frustrating. I am emailing him pics of the error messages constantly, which he forwards to Newtek. I love many of the new features of VT4...especially after having made the leap from VT2, but I am LESS productive on the VT4 than I was with VT2 because of these nagging errors. My use of the software is in POST, where many days I am doing 8 to 10 spots. For my two cents, this is a programming issue more than a hardware issue.

Paul Lara
02-17-2005, 11:10 AM
Frank, Jim, et al:

Please e-mail me ([email protected]) and I will get you some revised drivers that eliminate the screen lock-ups.

ted
02-17-2005, 04:38 PM
These drivers have solved all my lock-ups.
I've only had two since I installed them and that's pretty good with any "Computer run" software. These were not related to the issue I was having before the fix.
Thanks NewTek!

tfrank
02-17-2005, 05:23 PM
I installed the new drivers after lunch today and edited for the rest of the afternoon. For the first time since my VT4 software was installed a month ago, I was able to edit for 4 hours and three spots without a lockup! The only error that came up was one weird C++ thing when I was really pushing the system. BUT the system never locked up! Thank you so much Newtek! From what I can tell at this early stage, it's a miracle. I'm in love again with my toaster! Now that I've said that, I've probably jinXed myself. :)

Michael Englyst
02-18-2005, 05:57 AM
@ Paul Lara

Paul is it possible to get the new drivers? I'm getting frequent lockups when drag'n'dropping images (PNG, JPEG, TIF, PCD) from VT-Edit's filebin. I was quite surprised that VT-Edit recognised PhotoCD files! :eek: Used one by accident :)

On another note I've had problems with my system as you may have read somewhere else , and I've figured that it has nothing to do with your software/hardware as the same symptoms apply after I got the update. Everything else checked as well.. Time for a new computer *sob* .. God I despise Tyan motherboards....

Rich Deustachio
02-18-2005, 10:38 AM
Are these video card drivers?

Paul Lara
02-18-2005, 12:26 PM
Paul is it possible to get the new drivers?

Yes, Michael.
As I'd stated in the message above, please e-mail me ([email protected]) and I can get this small zip file to you!

Michael Englyst
02-18-2005, 04:10 PM
As I'd stated in the message above, please e-mail me ([email protected]) and I can get this small zip file to you!

Thanks a lot Paul. Did not notice you wrote it earlier. I have mailed you.

edmellnik
02-21-2005, 03:31 PM
Since the new drivers I had one lock up. So that is not really a good test....
But it is hopeful. after I installed the files Paul zipped me, it worked good for
a while and then locked up once. . which was better than before so it is an improvement.

By the way, for those of you doing this with the zip files...I had to manually put them where they belong. They did not automatically go in the right folders by just unzipping on the root of C.

ed

ottis41
02-28-2005, 05:27 PM
Hey Guys I do not like what i am hearing. I just recived my VT4 card and software upgrade this week and am planning on installing it... I thought the bugs were worked out with SP1.. YIKES..VT3 is working fine maybe i should wait, but i am inbetween projects.. the last thing i need is a crash on a live production..its not a happy moment.. i know it happend befor....
I think i will wait a bit..

Jim Capillo
02-28-2005, 05:32 PM
Hey Guys I do not like what i am hearing. I just recived my VT4 card and software upgrade this week and am planning on installing it... I thought the bugs were worked out with SP1.. YIKES..VT3 is working fine maybe i should wait, but i am inbetween projects.. the last thing i need is a crash on a live production..its not a happy moment.. i know it happend befor....
I think i will wait a bit..

This is the time to do it, in-between projects. I am using the latest drivers and it has been solid for me, but I'm not using it in a live situation...... I am 99.9% post right now.

steveg
02-28-2005, 09:00 PM
What "latest Drivers" are you refering to? I am having so many crashes in TEd that it isn't funny any more. It is taking me 3 time slonger to do anything than before I shelled out $600. for this worthless T4 upgrade. NewTek keeps saying they squashed one bug after another but where are these fixes. If there are newer video drivers available for the Nvidia 5700 than what is posted on their web site and if that is the answer, please make these available to us to fix our toaster problems that we should have never had after this many years into the Toaster. Please let us have the fixes you have. Secondly, I went to my dealer to get my money back on my T4 upgrade and found, I have no more dealer to vent my complaints to since you won't allow him to sell Toasters anymore, because, he didn't sell enough. Well, if the Toaster doesn't work. How do you expect a dealer to sell a product when it doesn't work. Are you going to pull all dealer licenses.

DonN
02-28-2005, 09:21 PM
steve, I empathize completely. But It is not the VT4 card or software that is tormenting you. Many many VT users are as bug free as can be, a few - and its really few - are not experiencing solid stability. You would be prudent to examine the computer system thoroughly before giving up. Contact Paul Lara at NewTek for the latest VT drivers, and definitely install the latest nVidea video card drivers. And a dealer that is suddenly not a dealer, hummmmm Just sounds fishy to me. I KNOW there are unauthorized self proclaimed dealers floating in the swamp preying on the unwary. I hope you didn't get suckered by that sort. A real VT dealer is a professional who will always help you out of a jam no matter what. The dealer I am most familiar with has replaced whole computers when necessary. As we know there are some computers that are just bad boys :mad: maladjusted to live in the video fast lane. -Don :cool:

Sledgehammer
03-01-2005, 05:03 PM
Just requested the drivers from Paul.

The problem I am receiving on a new system (Dual 3.0, x6da8g2, 4x73gb, 2gb ram, 128mb Nvidia) is that the menus are sloooooooow!

Obviously, have disabled the Nvidia desktop and system tray. Single monitor setup, 1280x1024.

First time running vt4, the menus are dog slow, Several seconds to bring up the menu, switching between desktops takes about 45 seconds.

Exit VT4, wait, restart VT4, and the menus are working properly.

Sometimes it takes a couple of re-starts.

And I have gotten the Potential Driver Lockup error.

Kim

EanJay
03-01-2005, 05:46 PM
Don't you think that Newtek should make some sort of statement concerning this lock-up problem, and then post the 'drivers' (whatever they are) for for download on the VT4 site? This way we all get to see the problems and the way they get solved. E-mailing fixes on an individual basis does not seem to be a good way of managing complaints.

EanJay

DonN
03-01-2005, 06:52 PM
VT lockup - :eek:
I cannot speak officially, being a lowly user, but the famous or maybe infamous is more like it, Lockup problem is local and I presume rare. Controlling who gets what experimental fix driver set is just good practice on NewTek's part.

Report, ask and receive... and everyone benefits. :)

my 2cents, Don

tmon
03-01-2005, 09:28 PM
(Dual XEON 3.0 GHz, 2GB RAM, VT[4] SP1 5522, Direct X 9.0c, nvidia Quadro 4 700 XGL driver 6.7.2.2)

Well, because of threads like this, I was holding off installling VT[4] on our workstations, but since a system drive was showing some problems, and we had to rebuild one workstation anyway...we decided, what the heck...so, now I've joined the ranks of the "testers."

Received the drivers (Thanks Paul!) and installed them.

VT[4] seems more stable with these new drivers. I too was getting repeated freeze ups when attempting to drag clips into the timeline. Never had this particular problem on any incarnation of VT[3] that I can remember.

I just duplicated a freeze and stall following a "Rehearse" Print to Tape.

After the "rehearsal" finished the GUI just sat there. I tried to press "Abort." Nothing.

I tried to click on the "X" at the top right of the Print To Tape GUI....nada.

Finally, I was able to close the Print To Tape GUI (though what I really wanted to do was print a project to tape) by selecting "NONE" in the Source Preset window.

Unfortunately, following this, VT[4] was frozen.

Is this a known bug?

Scrut
03-03-2005, 07:58 AM
We find that the "no video signal present. potential driver lockup" problem can be corrected by switching to NTSC and back to PAL in the preferences (or PAL and back to NTSC on your side of the pond) rather than rebooting the computer. It nearly always gets you working again and saves a fair bit of time.

Sledgehammer
03-03-2005, 03:26 PM
Got the new drivers, thanks paul.

Unfortunately, while I haven't had it lock, it still has slooooooow menus intermittently. There are times when I cannot get the menu to appear without right clicking, which of course brings up the desktip config menu. Then the main menu will appear behind the desktop menu, and a couple of clicks will get what I want up.

One of the most infuriating things is the intermittent part. Some starts will be fine, some will not.

&^%$%$&*(%E$

tmon
03-03-2005, 04:14 PM
Yes, we have also been having intermittent problems getting the menu to appear as well. We've been having to do the "right-click" dance as well. Very awkward.
We get that on our VT[3] workstation as well, but it's not as bad.

I'm not sure what's going on with the slowness in the menus and switching desktops...we've been able to switch desktops OK...

BTW, we were able to repeatedly induce VT[4] software stalls while trying to perform a "Save-As" on our CG projects. That's a new one for us.

Randall Chesbro
03-05-2005, 07:08 PM
the potential driver lock up happend to me when i put in the new vt4pro board and software. it ended up being my 1394 fierwire card. it doesnt like TI texas instruments complyant chipset. so i put in a OHC somthing something and it wooked great.