View Full Version : Stupid Bone Problem

Digital Junkie
01-03-2005, 01:16 AM
I am sooooooooo Frusterated right know, I just spent about 8 hours rigging this freaking character only to get to a point that I find the rig is USELESS!!!! I have the feet rigged very nicely, the arms have IK/FK blending (Thanks Pooby) and so I get to the head, it has a bone that is supposed to target a null. I recorded the rest rotation and all that fun stuff. Now when I targeted the null the bone looked straight down (instead of straght ahead at the target) so I reset the bones rotation, which seemed to fix the problem :) Then I reloaded the scene :mad: now the bone is looking in the right direction but the head of the character is looking straight down as if thats where the bones are looking! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: I have tried several ways to try and fix this problem but no luck. I just dont want to spend another 8 hours rigging the same thing! If anyone has any suggestions that might help they would be greatly appreciated!

01-03-2005, 01:24 AM
*Maybe* if you rotate it back around to where it was before, resave the scene (with a new name this time), then reload the scene, un-re-rotate the bone, then re-save the scene and objects with different names.
I haven't done much Bone work, but from what I've seen, the bones need to line up with the objects when loaded

Digital Junkie
01-03-2005, 01:55 AM
Heres some pics, the bone is still in the correct position so rotating it isnt going to help. I,m sure it has something to do with recording the bone pivot rotation and then trying to re-set it. Oh well I guess I'm going to start over (I usually save many versions just in case something like this happens but I guess I was slacking)
It's just frusterating because an hour ago I was like 'Yah! I'm almost done, now it's like OH [email protected]! I just wasted the whole day!

Sorry for the venting. Thanks for the suggestion

01-03-2005, 03:18 AM
..this is my one old rig, hope it help to you

01-03-2005, 05:27 AM
If those images show Deformations ON and OFF, then it looks like the bone is already deforming the mesh in it's rest pose. Did you try Record Bone REST position?

01-03-2005, 06:37 AM
Digital Junkie..

There are very few situations when you need to start again.
Whenever I rig something, I rig it as I go and test animating it in between, then add bits etc.
You can do a lot of radical changes to a rig, even half way through a shot.

For this reason though. I would recommend to any rigger, making all the bones in layout.
I never use skelegons. To be able to make an effective rig using skelegons you have to almost have psychic ablilities.

Anyway.. the problem you have looks like it will be easy to fix..
I can't suggest with certainty a solution without looking at the scene, but if you send it to me I'm confident that I can solve it for you.

Digital Junkie
01-03-2005, 01:43 PM
Thanks for the help guys, I got it taken care of (4 hours of re-rigging) I just found out that if you use skelegons do not record pivot rotation for the bones that will be targeting something. This is the second problem I have encountered with rest rotation on skelegons. Pooby, I'm with you on that psychic thing.

01-04-2005, 02:54 AM
fwiw: i dont like using Record Pivot Rotation for the very reason that was being explained here. the "orientation" of the bones become permanently fixed and not readily apparent. if you unparent any bone that has been re-oriented by RPR, the HPB is all different and, imo, hard to work with. some lscripts that i use also make it undesireable.

personally, i still use the old way of nesting bones to zero out bones along a custom axis to avoid gimbal lock and to make expressions and value-related stuff easier to set up.

01-06-2005, 01:22 AM
If youre using RPR you need to remove it sometimes when using expressions or targetting. Im not sure if this is fixed in 8.01 but executing RPR would also rerest that bone which could cause problems if the current bone pose doesnt match how the geometry is posed.

01-11-2005, 09:18 AM
I feel your pain DJ,
I was fighting my rig while doing test animation. Main problem was that I could not record rest position anymore, mesh were twisted and offset. I removed all Record Pivot Rotation and it works again. So that tool is boycoted by me for now, untill I understand what is it for. Only targets I have are Eyes as they are boned weighted and at same layer as skin. Some expressions too. Just fixing pivot rotations from parent bones and adding parents if needed. I'm waiting my book orders, should help some I suppose.

01-28-2005, 04:35 PM
One way of getting around the use of RPRs(which I don't use at all anymore).... is to create a secont bone that becomes the parent of the First bone your trying to have Rotate properly... usally that will set the Rotations of your bone in a more managable position... (Read less Gymbal Lock)

Lightwaves 'Split' bone tool is great for this....

Just like pooby was saying above I find that When you work on a Rigg you 'work' on a Rigg... that is you create a bit and test... create a bit and test... once you get use to messing with them you will more know what to expect out of them... Bones are really powerfull things it honestly is worth your while to spend the time messing with them... after awhile you will find they can be your best freind.... but they are Son of a Trousers When you first meet them.... (Trousers, Breeches ... same thing.... ) :D

Also once you get weened off using skelegons...
you no longer have that .... "o' gotta start all over again" mentality about creating bones...
with LW 8s bone tools... you can do everything you were doing with skelegons but better.... (IMO) :rolleyes:

01-28-2005, 04:53 PM
I've got them breeches (and something in them), I did split the other arm and updated to 8.2 you know the rest. I'm taking a brake. After I'm finnished with few books and something else I'll might try again, and manual rollback to 8.01 bonetools.p. which is IMO rather stupid boneproblem too.

01-28-2005, 06:14 PM
aaaa I just reinstalled 8.0.1 again.. so I could finish up some stuff with my Characters....

Hopefully Newtek with get busy and fix the bonetools here pretty quick... Rumor has it that they might do a quick update release on some stuff that they have already fixed... Some say the bone tools are among those problems already fixed.. but ... that's just rumor as far as I'm concerned... I never make plans on hopes and hearsay...

Thus the Reinstall back to 8.0.1

Digital Junkie
01-29-2005, 12:20 AM
Thanks for all the replys guys. I ended up re-rigging this character, ( It didnt take that long after all) This time I just left the bones that would be targeting something alone and did not record RPR, this worked out pretty well. Now I have a pretty nice rig and I learned a thing or two about the whole thing. :)