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View Full Version : Did Newtek sell LW just like it sold Aura?



JohnL
04-13-2003, 11:26 AM
As the most of you know, Newtek sold Aura.

Special deals for LW users one day and the next day... poof! All mention of Aura disappears from Newteks website!

Aura was upgraded to version 2.5b not long ago.

Now that LW has reached 7.5b will it be the last version of LW under the Newtek flag?

If we want to buy LW & Aura from Newtek, will we all have to buy a VT[3]?

Will we have to buy Lightwave v.8 from another vendor/publisher? (notice I didn't use the L word!!)

BTW. I'd love to own a VT[3]. I just don't have enough use for it. And dammit, my budget for playthings is used up for this month!!

archiea
04-13-2003, 12:21 PM
Crap!

I was about to take advantage of the aura deal!!

Epita
04-13-2003, 12:24 PM
I dont think NT is going to sell LW off any time soon. At least i hope not, but still loads of ppl use LW commercially and i dont think that is something NT is going to want to lose anytime soon.

Epita

Chuck
04-13-2003, 12:46 PM
Hi, JohnL!

The major elements of your information regarding Aura do not reflect the actual case, and we'll be providing the accurate news on that front in the coming days. As for LightWave 3D, NewTek owns and is fully committed to the development of LightWave, and we have stated that we have some exciting news coming up over the coming months and at SIGGRAPH. If you haven't noticed, we're also hiring additional staff for LightWave development - see our careers section.

JohnL
04-13-2003, 12:53 PM
I think it's a question of focus. Can a small privately-held company develop, support and last but not least market 3 world class products at the same time?

Well now that Aura is sold, it looks like the decision to focus on one product line only has been made. VT[3] has the price/performance advantage that LW used to have.

I think it make sense for Newtek to sell LW to a company that not only has the development team but also can concentrate 100% on marketing LW.

I think VT[3] is so good and has so much end user as well as OEM potential that Newtek could be tempted to take the chance. Under the right circumstances it would not only be a canny business decision but a great thing for all LW users as well.

If the sale is completed the day that LW 8 is released then Newtek would obviously be interested in earning money selling LW in the interim period. All this Lightwave/Luxology talk might just have been the cat getting out the bag too early.

If you think about it, it makes sense.

JohnL
04-13-2003, 01:03 PM
Thanks Chuck, but I already have a job! ;)

Besides, I type too slow!

Glad to hear you are going to announce something before SIGGRAPH. Ater seeing the VT[3] in action on the webstream from NAB I am genuinly looking forward to some equally good news for Lighwave.

Would you consider a DV version of VT[3] packaged for LW and Aura users like me that could be puchased for say $995?

That would just be inside my playthings budget for next month!!

I know once I got it in the door I couldn't live without it. :D

Brian Peterson
04-13-2003, 01:22 PM
John,

If you look at the copyright for Aura, it's never listed Newtek as the owner. I remember when they first itroduced it and I was watching a demo, Ralph, at the time, said it was based on an old Amiga program called TV Paint.

Evidently TV Paint is owned by a French company who have decided to take back the publishing rights to the program.

This is from what I have been able to piece together and is not based on anything official from Newtek. I don't believe they sold anything.

MGuerra
04-13-2003, 02:32 PM
For those of you wondering... the Aura section of our site is not gone, but it has been moved under the VT section.

archiea
04-13-2003, 05:00 PM
Hey NT. Any chance of that Aura/TVpaint deal for LW users still existing once TVpaint resurfaces? thanks...

pixelmonk
04-14-2003, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
Hi, JohnL!

The major elements of your information regarding Aura do not reflect the actual case, and we'll be providing the accurate news on that front in the coming days. As for LightWave 3D, NewTek owns and is fully committed to the development of LightWave, and we have stated that we have some exciting news coming up over the coming months and at SIGGRAPH. If you haven't noticed, we're also hiring additional staff for LightWave development - see our careers section.

I didn't see any Betaforce crew needed in the careers section. :(

mastermesh
04-14-2003, 08:44 AM
If they sold Aura, maybe they can sell Vidget so that some third party that buys it can update it to work with XP!!! :)

Chuck
04-14-2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by mastermesh
If they sold Aura, maybe they can sell Vidget so that some third party that buys it can update it to work with XP!!! :)

We did not sell Aura...

Red_Oddity
04-14-2003, 09:02 AM
Chuck, you might as well be talking to a wall, i don't think WANT to listen....:confused:

pixelmonk
04-14-2003, 09:40 AM
Well it's included w/VT now. Who knows.. there could be a version included w/LW 8 :)

cresshead
04-14-2003, 11:58 AM
it'll be interesting to see what happens with what was announced last year that "aura can see the hub in lightwave now on the beta"...will the connection continue or be shelved..?

steve g

www.cresshead.com

Prosprctor
04-14-2003, 03:23 PM
Whew!!!
that was close

Aura going to the French woulda ment I could no longer use it:D

Thanks Chuck;)

Prosprctor
04-14-2003, 03:26 PM
Pixelmonk...
I've heard that Aura is included with LW8 as a 3D painting program in modeler....

Don't remember where I heard it, and it MIGHT have been when I was sleeping, but I am 99% sure I heard it:D

rabid pitbull
04-14-2003, 07:47 PM
Originally posted by Prosprctor
Pixelmonk...
I've heard that Aura is included with LW8 as a 3D painting program in modeler....

Don't remember where I heard it, and it MIGHT have been when I was sleeping, but I am 99% sure I heard it:D

i will be MIGHTY pissed if aura is included with LW8, since i just bought it during the LW owners sale 1 week ago. if it becomes worthless with the next upgrade i am gonna really feel like newtek is playing dirty.....

:mad:

Beamtracer
04-14-2003, 09:21 PM
Aura would have to be cross-platform before it could be integrated into Lightwave

archiea
04-15-2003, 02:08 AM
No necessarily, Beam, and you know what a rukas that would start!!!!

;D

JohnL
04-15-2003, 02:47 AM
Cross platform. Do you mean like Aura should work on a Mac as well?

I thought that LW stopped being cross platform with v.7.5b!!:D

archiea
04-15-2003, 02:52 AM
DDDDDOOOOHHHH!!!!!

And it starts....



RRRRRRAAAAAAOOOOOOWWWWWW!!!!

we're getting katty!!!! http://vbulletin.newtek.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

JohnL
04-15-2003, 06:12 AM
Sorry I couldn't resist.:)

With all the great video products for the Mac, I seriously doubt that there are many Apple users who are suffering from Video Toaster or Aura envy!

That said, I would love to see Aura, all or parts of VT[3] and LW8 integrated seamlessly into one SW package for existing LW users.

Maybe cross-platform compatability is stopping this avenue of approach?

I hope not.

theosmekhanes
04-15-2003, 11:19 AM
"With all the great video products for the Mac, I seriously doubt that there are many Apple users who are suffering from Video Toaster or Aura envy! "

I'm sure not suffering.. Toaster,pffft!

pixelmonk
04-15-2003, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by Prosprctor
Whew!!!
that was close

Aura going to the French woulda ment I could no longer use it:D

Thanks Chuck;)

French don't have an aura. KIDDING!!!

pixelmonk
04-15-2003, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
Aura would have to be cross-platform before it could be integrated into Lightwave

Not really. Combustion and Max work well together, and Combustion is on OSX, but Max isn't and never will be. Maya for IRIX came with Composer while on the NT side it came with a DF (lite). Besides, VT isn't cross-platform and Aura will continue to be bundled with it.






The people in Iraq deserve their freedom from an oppressed regime who stole their identity. Their suffering is almost over. There's light ahead.. watch multiple news outlets for more info.
_____________Please think of LW 8_______________

SplineGod
04-15-2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by JohnL
I think it's a question of focus. Can a small privately-held company develop, support and last but not least market 3 world class products at the same time?

Well now that Aura is sold, it looks like the decision to focus on one product line only has been made. VT[3] has the price/performance advantage that LW used to have.

I think it make sense for Newtek to sell LW to a company that not only has the development team but also can concentrate 100% on marketing LW.

I think VT[3] is so good and has so much end user as well as OEM potential that Newtek could be tempted to take the chance. Under the right circumstances it would not only be a canny business decision but a great thing for all LW users as well.

If the sale is completed the day that LW 8 is released then Newtek would obviously be interested in earning money selling LW in the interim period. All this Lightwave/Luxology talk might just have been the cat getting out the bag too early.

If you think about it, it makes sense.
I cant see Newtek selling off Lightwave. A company needs to diversify so they dont end up losing their shirt by relying on only one product. I think Newtek has probably invested millions into the development of Lightwave as well as the VT3 and has built up considerable momentum over the years. In the beginning Im sure the original Toaster payed for the development of Lightwave and in fact put it on the map. Im sure that at times Lightwave sales payed for VT development. It would cause me greater concern to see LW sold off to a company that would solely base their company on a 3D product....especially now with the 3d market and economy the way they are now.
I think Lux is facing a major uphill battle. People have left Newtek before to form other companies. At one time most of the Toaster Dev team left to form PLAY (The trinity guys). The company had great ideas (Snappy and Trinity) but ended up tanking with millions of dollars in debts. Another group left and formed the PMG group. Theyre still around but even with the powerful and innovative features in Messiah it has failed to really make a dent in the 3D market. They have struggled to get things out on time for years and my personal feeling is that I dont think theyre doing all that well.
Lux has a lot of staff to pay and no products Ive seen them talk about. Most or all the statements they made early on have been retracted or refuted... not a great way to start out. They are also going to have to dump huge amounts of money to market and advertise if and when they ever come out with something. The economy is not the greatest and who would invest in a new, unproven 3D software company at this point in time? Technical superiority doesnt guarentee the success of a product. Superior business smarts will do more to guarentee success. I havent seen any indication of any business savviness from their direction that would make me want to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars into whatever it is they may come up with. Newtek has been around for a very long time and despite economy, hardship and odds they have always come thru it. Im glad they plan to hold onto Lightwave AND continue to develop and market other products.

Prosprctor
04-15-2003, 02:20 PM
Rabid Pitbull..
It wouldn't become worthless.....

Even tho I have the VT2, I still use my Amiga Toaster.

It would just be incorporated, but it doesn't make older versions useless.

Beamtracer
04-15-2003, 09:22 PM
Larry: Are you sure that Newtek and Luxology are developing separate 3D products? This new agreement that the two companies have just settled could mean anything.

Theosmekhanes: It's true that Mac users have the cream of the video editing applications. I'd say compositing applications too!

SplineGod
04-15-2003, 10:18 PM
I dont know anymore then anyone does.
Im just saying that this isnt the first time people have left Newtek (or any company for that matter) to go do THEIR thing (whatever that thing happens to be).
Newtek owns (check copyright notice in layout) Lightwave and is the only one authorized to develop it and so forth. Ive heard that Newtek and Lux resolved whatever needed to be resolved.
Newtek is and has been hiring new programming staff for Lightwave development it appears. This, and the fact that its been mentioned that LW8 is or will be in development seems to indicate that Lightwave indeed is still a Newtek product and that Newtek is still the only one authorized to develop and market it.
But the point is that despite the fact that people have left Newtek before hasnt seem to deter Newtek at all. They have continued to do well. I dont see how Lux could sit there all this time pouring money down a hole and survive. Even if some money is coming in from Lightwave somehow to them I dont see how it could be enough to supply Newtek and them as well.
It cant be a healthy business plan for them if they plan to simply sit there and develop parts of lightwave (IF that indeed is what theyre doing). I say parts because Newtek has or is hiring programmers...

Zithen
04-15-2003, 11:04 PM
It seems as though LW8 will be coming out at siggraph. So if Newtek is hiring programmers, it couldn't be to develop a program that would be introduced in a couple of months. It would have to be LW9, I'm guessing. I doubt very seriously if Lux was flat out lying when they said they were working on the next Lightwave. That was mentioned over a year ago.

My thing is that if Lux has/had no relationship with Newtek, then how can one say that issues between them have been resolved. If there was no relationship in the first place then how could there be something to resolve?

Obviously there was a link somewhere and I can only guess that it was over the development of LW.

Still, I'm also curious as to how Lux intends to make money and be successful as a new compnay. I guess things will be revealed in due time.

SplineGod
04-16-2003, 12:23 AM
Originally posted by Zithen
It seems as though LW8 will be coming out at siggraph. So if Newtek is hiring programmers, it couldn't be to develop a program that would be introduced in a couple of months. It would have to be LW9, I'm guessing. I doubt very seriously if Lux was flat out lying when they said they were working on the next Lightwave. That was mentioned over a year ago.

My thing is that if Lux has/had no relationship with Newtek, then how can one say that issues between them have been resolved. If there was no relationship in the first place then how could there be something to resolve?

Obviously there was a link somewhere and I can only guess that it was over the development of LW.

Still, I'm also curious as to how Lux intends to make money and be successful as a new compnay. I guess things will be revealed in due time.
Just because Newtek is hiring MORE programmers doesnt mean somebody there hasnt been working on Lightwave. Brad stated that Lux was developing LW and that was refuted by Newtek and retracted by them. Its entirely possible that Alan and/or Stuart have been or are still working on bug fixes and/or LW 8. Thats something that has been stated by Newtek before. Even though Alan and Stuart are part of Lux it doesnt mean that whatever relationship Newtek has with them extends to their company. Legally speaking, having a contract with an individual isnt the same as having a contract with a company owned by either/or the same individuals...theyre two completely different animals.
Companies can certainly resolve issues without having a business relationship since an issue can range from somebody making prank phone calls to sticking oreos all over a car...who knows? :)

pixelmonk
04-16-2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
Just because Newtek is hiring MORE programmers doesnt mean somebody there hasnt been working on Lightwave. Brad stated that Lux was developing LW and that was refuted by Newtek and retracted by them. Its entirely possible that Alan and/or Stuart have been or are still working on bug fixes and/or LW 8. Thats something that has been stated by Newtek before. Even though Alan and Stuart are part of Lux it doesnt mean that whatever relationship Newtek has with them extends to their company. Legally speaking, having a contract with an individual isnt the same as having a contract with a company owned by either/or the same individuals...theyre two completely different animals.

You probably know more about it than I do.. but I'm looking at it from a corporate standpoint. Lux could be sub-contracted to help with L8 while they are free to explore their own development projects. Of course this means they can't cross the lines with regards to intellectual property and who legally owns the rights to what code and so on. It could be that is what was recently cleared up. I dunno. I'm just a corporate monkey/animator.

:)

archiea
04-16-2003, 11:39 PM
Zithen, did you just say 9.0? don't make me hurt you....


:mad:

Zithen
04-17-2003, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by archiea
Zithen, did you just say 9.0? don't make me hurt you....

The positions Newtek are hiring for are pretty hefty. UI design, Dynamics, Rendering, Modeling...all the major components of a 3d system. Doesn't sound like debugging or maintenance jobs to me. It looks like LW8 will be released at siggraph, which is only 3 months away. The new programmers would either be finishing up LW8, or planning the next version LW9. It seems more realistic to me that the new programmers would be working on the next generation, not the one coming up in a few months. But that's just my guess. I mean, that would be a serious coding effort to hire programmers now to finish anything like LW in 3 months time. There's beta testing and debugging time, right?
But what do I know.

archiea
04-17-2003, 06:17 AM
Yeah but, did you have to say the "n" word? ... you know.... Nine!?!?!?!

:o

Mike Pauza
04-17-2003, 02:05 PM
I'm happy NewTek's rebuilding thier inhouse talent and claiming something special is in the works...as a user that makes me feel better about thier future.:)

Doug Nicola
04-18-2003, 10:54 AM
It seems to be possible to put the pieces together on the LW/Lux issue just by looking at what's right in front of our eyes.

1. Newtek has the copyright on LW in the latest build for Layout, they now own LW; and Newtek is hiring lots of developers for LW, case closed.

2. Lux is promoting LW front and center with news releases featuring LW (Setup machine, 7.5b update) right up on their front page. Why on earth would they do this unless they had a direct financial interest in seeing LW succeed? They would be CRAZY to do this if they were actually intending to compete with LW in the near (or even distant) future. I sure don't see Maya or Max promoting LW updates.

Obvious Conclusion: Newtek and Lux are happily cooperating, to the mutual benefit of both, and we can all look forward to Newtek rocking with LW 8, 9, 10... !

Weew! I'm glad that's settled! ;)