PDA

View Full Version : request: a serious team !!!



operation
12-23-2004, 04:27 PM
My request is simple ....

Listen to the user (most of them are graphist and think as a grpahist) : many tools (plugins) have missing options or are unusable.
Most of time, simply because they was done without thinking to our needs.

I am upgrading Lw all days by downloading scripts or plugins at FLAY.com.
note: just read the comments from users at flay under the links, very interesting. You will learn a lot about what they are thinking ...

For me , I see LW as Linux .... it's up to us to write tools to make Lw usable.


Publish a bug report list ( like you did with LW 6.0 beta). it can save time if we know that it's comming from a bug or to find a workaround.

And stop behaving like in the past ( private joke in the documentation, hidden features - sometime activated by mistake , there is some in LW 8 !!, to make anounce ... and push the date cause your late).

As an user I see more graphist stop using LW cause they don't believe in Nt anymore. I have been really desappointed when I have seen Modo, I felt like betrayed !! cause I am sure they was planning to leave Newtek... and they stopped to work on Lw along time ago.

UnCommonGrafx
12-23-2004, 04:39 PM
Yes, betrayed is a great term for that feeling. Too bad they didn't see fit to give us what WE, THE USERS, asked for way-back-when.

Such old issues.

Such posts should be held out until after they ship 8.2; then, if things ain't top notch, I'll even get in line to sling mud. :D

As for bringing up the previous team, why bother...

{"Easter eggs", as those hidden things are called, are in most all big code. M$ stuff has it, even. Do a web search to see that this is not only common thing but a cool addition to what might otherwise be dulling stuff.}

operation
12-23-2004, 04:49 PM
suite ...

I have read in a previous post that S. Worley won't leave Newtek (collaboration) cause he likes LW ... Maybe there is many things to do for LW, he's sure to have many plugins to write cause a lot is missing.

For exemple a funny thing: Lightwave was the first one to implement Layer aka photoshop in the modeler . I had to wait december 2004, to have a basic tool like Surpasses ( this tool rocks)!!! ... how you never think at this tool for the layout ? I was waiting that since 5 or 6 years . and it's suprising cause you got this possibility in the modeler ????

I am feed up to wait for the famous revolutionary version of LW. I starting to think that I am loosing my time and my money waiting to see my hope and wishes in LW.

There is many things to say, but my english is bad and I can't express myself as I want, words are missing but I would like to see if some people on this forum share my ideas and what are you waiting from Newtek ( not features , but politicly).

thanks.

UnCommonGrafx
12-23-2004, 05:19 PM
With so few posts, it's easy to see why you haven't seen the THOUSANDS of posts on this topic.

Put it in your native language as there are interpreters around for us to make use of. But... before that, I would suggest that you read the archives as there is lots of public opinion on this.

Are you suggesting that others not wait and just move on? To what other app are you marketing for?

operation
12-23-2004, 05:21 PM
About Easter eggs, maybe they can inform us this way :

there some experimental features ( this, that and that ) you can activate them using those keys but use them at your own risks. that's professionnal.

Some fonctions was hidden in Maya, sahders in Mentalray too .. etc...

but just for the story my Lightwave was not responding caus I activated some features by mistakes.... I had some crash in the past ( LW 5.6 or 6.0 .. I don't remember exactly) cause I activated the raytrace acceleration wich was an hidden feature.)

I am sure that the new team fell the preasure from customers, only cause the old team lied to us, make us believe that they was working to make LW better.

I just wish them to tell us more about what they are doing, wich features they want to make, etc... but when I see that we are waiting for an version 8.2, we don't know nothing about the features, and ther are waiting for christmas or new year to make us a suprise.... I am starting to think that it's childish behavior ( I understand the fact they want to surprise us ... gift ..etc... ) but I rather to see a serious team, with a note like this :

we are working on those features : blabalablablablbalab, we implemented blbalablalbala, those bugs are fixed blbalablablab . we are beta testing for 2 or 3 weeks ... and we plan to post a new version this date : ..../.../... . please send your request until next version.

than ... "you will have a surpise at the end of year".. we don't care , we want to know if we will get the tools wa need .

For exemple: I am working on a big project (very big commercialy for Newtek if they say it's done with LW), I need to use radiosity... I push the date of the production hoping to ear more about LW 8.2 features in case the features can help me or not for my needs... morality .... no news, can't wait more longuer ...than I am using Mentalray cause I am feed up to wait and I have to bring my work in begining of january.

If you look at 3dsmax, we know 2 or 3 months before the realease what we will get or what is comming next.... same for Maya or XSI....

I would like to download update every month, even if just 2 bugs are corrected I want it, cause maybe those correction would help me in my job.

but to wait 1 year to get a version with fake features ( I am rude , it's to make you react) .... I am not interested.

UnCommonGrafx
12-23-2004, 05:32 PM
Hehe,
You sound like a rabid fan of LW.
You also sound well-resourced. Based on that you've done what any professional has done: gotten the tools to do the job.

Never a good idea to blame another for your deadline dilemma's since you probably won't share the money earned for meeting deadlines with their tool. :p

Too bad NT won't get to benefit from your commercial success. MentalRay will, though, huh...

Somehow, this is no longer about getting the goods in LW. Many a post in the archives in this vein.

Bass
12-23-2004, 05:40 PM
Well, I hear you, but I'm afraid I can't agree with you. I have no doubt Newtek is doing their best - why wouldn't they? If you read the posts in here, you'll see that dozens of people think that hundreds of features should already be in LW. Some of those come from bona fide users finding shortfalls, but I think most of them come from wanting something that's in another program they know about.

Either way, Newtek says that every feature submission is read, considered, and if it has merit, is put in the line-up. I have no reason to believe that's not true. I pretty sure they're not holding features back from us!

Now, I don't know why your particular feature hasn't been implemented yet, but there's probably a good reason - other features have been asked for more often, it's a bigger task than the current schedule or legacy code allows for - there's lots of valid reasons. As a private company, they're not under any obligation to tell us what those reasons are - name any company that tells us all the problems they're having!

No program can have every feature all at once, but I really think Newtek is one of the better ones for listening to their users and adding what they ask for. They've been doing it for years - the underwater procedures came when a hokey TV program named "Seaquest" needed it back in version 2 or 3!

Sure, there's some notable exceptions, and like you, I don't know why they still exist in the software. However, I'm willing to bet cash money that Newtek would like to have every one of them fixed a lot more than any of us!

But like every company, they don't have unlimited resources, and have to spend those resources according to their best guess of what is needed when.

They've also had some setbacks beyond their control that were staggering - the Amiga going away and having to switch to an entirely new platform - that was a very impressive display of taking care of their users, not to mention something that few others have been able to do!

They've had major players on the development team leave on short notice, plus they have to live within the same economic realities that the rest of us do.

Yet some of us still expect them to cater to individual priorities, on our timetable. I don't get that. Why not just use the software where we can, and fill in with other solutions when we have to, like we do with every other product we use?

Do we expect automobile manufacturers to upgrade our vehicles whenever we think something should be added? Do we expect Microsoft Word to have all the features of FrontPage, or Illustrator to do everything that Photoshop does? Well, maybe some do, but most of us use the appropriate package.

This isn't meant to be a "hail to Newtek" response, but some of the slagging just isn't deserved. We're fortunate that they do open up the code to third party developers - it gets us features they can't or don't want to implement right when we want them.

And that gives me enough assurance that I wouldn't replacing it altogether - it would just be a waste to throw out all the investment in time and plugins that I have into it now, just because they won't change what I think they should.

And that's my rant for today.

Bass

operation
12-23-2004, 05:44 PM
I read the other posts , but ... I din't want to sucribe in the past .. cause I was agree with some people on this forum.

But this time , I have decided to suscribe and write some words cause I don't want to see the same errors. I still like LW ( using it since Amiga version), but I think this software could rocks, only if developpers listen to us (customers).

Some of my friends moves on ... ( when we saw each others in the past, it was always the same comments .... "that is missing, that's not working as it must do ...." more bads than good.

And time after time, when you see that you are more productive on other tools, you starting to think : "why am I loosing my time ? Nobody is listening to me". now I can see it's true.
for exemple to setup a character ... 2 sec in XSI ...how much time in LW (without AC4 ,scripts..) ? when you have deadline as me (I am freelancer) , you choose the right way , in the past I was spending my time to find solutions in lightwave just because I like LW. Now if I don't get what I want with LW and I know there is a tool more simple ... I go for it. In past I was thinking as a Lightwave fan " let's try to do it with Lw - don't care about time", now I am starting to think .."how much developpers are working on this product ? 2 ? 10 ? 100 ? how much upgrade by years ? how many features implemented ?...


I know that I am not the only one, but I am not confident at the end of this year, with this 8.2 upgrade it sounds for me like "deją vu", it's why I started to write only know.

thanks for your answers! :) ;)

UnCommonGrafx
12-23-2004, 05:49 PM
Well said, Bass.

An example of doing what we can: http://toastergarage.com/lwconnect

I had ALWAYS wanted a way to put my video onto stuff in LW. YEARS, man, YEARS I've wanted this. Since 1.xx of the VTA. So, sometimes the wait is long. But things can happen to bring to fruition our wishes and dreams.


I can do it now with LW. Now if they'll just give me all the fixes I want in it to make it go like I really want. :p Here's hoping we ALL get what we want.

operation
12-23-2004, 06:11 PM
Thanks Bass,

I am agree with you ( I have been manager in video games industry ) working as freelancer since 12 years...

I understand consideration about money,choise, people, priority.... developping too.

But I get some feed back from .... ( I can't say more) and I meet some of the old team , NT is listening to us, reading the posts but from what I know they are not so close to us or the way we are thinking ( yes, I am sure they want the best tool, with many features , frequently updated .. ), maybe my mistake is to talk about Nt, cause there is difference between Nt and the developpement team.

I trust Nt , but from what I eared and I have seen.The old team really didn't care about wish list, they was arogant, considiring "normal" customers are not important users, for them only valid compagny was DD, ILM, or such compagny. Bugs or corrections was ordered in a list as they want and as they have time to do it ( not in the wait you described it)..... it's more like ... "I do it if I want, or only and only if I think it could be useful for me....".

Keep in mind that there was in the past : NT and the LW team it was 2 distinct group. I just hope now that Nt and LW is one entity.

Dodgy
12-23-2004, 06:45 PM
The old NT dev team was different from the new team, and you can see they're making a big difference to some of the fundamentals already (bone editing tools, subpatch UV map distortion, new AA methods etc) so I hope you'll have a little more faith.

As for other packages, they all have their own failings as well as their advantages. That's why big studios use many different ones. As for us smaller users, LW is one heck of an all rounder, and one that's going to be keeping me as a customer...

Karmacop
12-23-2004, 07:13 PM
I have a lot of faith in the new team. We've hardly seen anything from them yet. I know they have a lot in store for us though.

operation
12-23-2004, 07:25 PM
the good thing, it's about the SDK.

I imagine customers sharing tools, sources as you did with your lscript GNU.

Maybe we can imagine a wish list only between customers. Like this for those who's got the time and the capabilities will upgrade Lw with more strong plugin.
I mean by strong ( robust) :

If you take look at flay, some plugins doing almost the same things with a little of variations, why can't we create a developper community as "sourceforge"(opensource) for LW, like this for a same tool we can get more options, update, share experience, share gallery and tutorials.

I am not talking about a forum ( like this one ) but something like "openoffice" or sourceforge).


for exemple if someone start a shader , everyone who wants to work on it, will add his own experience , graphists will explain there needs and design interface, developpers will have good feedback and beta testers . Like this we can expect to bring up LW.

we can structure this like that:

subject: interface
Tool: spreasheet
Needs: list all objects, select objects, hide elements ....
developpement team: lbalbalablab, bllbalbalab and blabalbal
click here to join the devlop team.
remarks: from bruce:missing a save preference options
from steeve: wish a button to toggle on/off this
download: .../.../... beta version 0.5.9
.../..../...stable version 0.5.1
source code: mac version / pc version

bug list : blablablaba
blblblbalbabla

etc..etc...

Like this everyone know what's going on, how , when ....

and a special section with a wishlist post: if a developper is interested by a tool he can choose the idea and put it in the good category and start working on it.

I read a post about Skin shader ( recent post )
ei:
category: shader
tool: skin shader
needs: bob: rim light, steeve: volumetric light, mike: surface receive shadow,duns: layer color for blood, epiderm,skin
developpement team: ldzkndlz lzn,dlzne
blabalbalab labalb


what do you thing about that ... ? do you think that we can all work together and make it better this way ? Users make growing Linux, why not with Lightwave ?

operation
12-23-2004, 07:46 PM
I have found this about the traitor( ?.. I don't know if it's the good word.)

http://www.macgeneration.com/mgnews/categories/actualite/upload/ae2004keynote/image018.jpg

to hate them more

http://www.cgtalk.com/archive/index.php/f-141.html

I am surprised to see them working so fast ..... maybe spending more time working on Nexus than LW those last years :mad: ...

Exper
12-23-2004, 11:30 PM
I am surprised to see them working so fast ..... maybe spending more time working on Nexus than LW those last years :mad: ...It's what I call (starting long ago) the "infamous Lux affair"!

The new LW's Team is great but they had a bad inheritance (coming from the old Team) and they was forced to do a lot more work than needed! :(

operation
12-24-2004, 02:07 AM
Yes I understand the hard work waiting for them. what about helping them with an opensource website with an hierchical structure as I suggested previously ?

I don't know to program in php but I can give free time, to keep it up to date.
Someone interested ?

Karmacop
12-24-2004, 03:55 AM
Although you, and I guess everyone else, would like to know how Lightwave is improving, but Newtek doesn't want to tell everyone their plans, because it gives too much to the competition. This isn't an open source project, it is a piece of software made by a company that needs to make profit, and they do that by making good software and including features that other companys don't have.

If you really love lightwave, you'd have faith in Newtek, and let them do what they do, and not tell you everything until it's time to give it to you. :)

Doran
12-24-2004, 02:44 PM
This whole thread sucks guys.
This is not a feature request thread; it's a moaning about the past, guessing about the future, unhelpful thread.

You're all probably as tired of me harping on off topic or unproductive threads as I am seeing these threads. but geees, maybe we need to put these threads into the "unproductive forum" :O)

pauland
12-24-2004, 03:29 PM
My request is simple .....

Yawn. zzzZZ

Elmar Moelzer
12-24-2004, 05:05 PM
Hello everyone!
As Chuck, Peter and myself have stated on these forums before: People at
NewTek are listening.
I am reading all your posts and concerns and I am reading all the many
feature- requests that are sent to [email protected] Thanks a lot to
everyone who is submitting features to us that way, by the way. You guys are
great! Please keep the requests coming!
The time you take for this is not lost. These feature- requests are all read
and entered into a long and steadily growing list and we are trying to
adress all of them.
I am a LightWave- user myself and I have been one for a long time.
I understand all the wishes you have in regards to the future of LightWave
and the new development team is working very hard to fullfill all of them.
Even right now....
If you have read the feature- list of LW8.2, you will see, that some of the
biggest problems people have been reporting with LightWave have been
adressed in it.
UV- editing has seen quite an update this time (the unwelding for editing
discontinous points is finally gone) and the UV- distortion on
subpatchmeshes should not be a problem anymore.
For this we actually had to rewrite quite a bit of LightWaves core. The
changes went from the polygontypes to the geometry- core to memory-
management and to OpenGL.
In addition to this, we were able to improve the quality of LightWaves
Antialiasing a lot with this update. You will find many new options, that
will help you get better results in less time.
Mind you, that this is only LW8.2, which is of course a free update for all
registered users of LW8.0. Please also understand, that we can not adress
all of your wishes within a single update, even though we would love to do
that.
However, there are many more updates to come and all of them will be done
with your wishes in mind.
Kindest regards and happy holidays.
Elmar Moelzer

pauland
12-24-2004, 06:10 PM
Merry Christmas Elmar!

In this season of Goodwill I'ts amazing how some just can't help but moan.

Enjoy the holiday and forget the naysayers...

Paul

Karmacop
12-25-2004, 12:20 AM
Have a great christmas Elmar!

Nemoid
12-25-2004, 06:17 AM
Hi Elmar i think you guys are working well in these hard times. my sensation is that with the new team Lw is actually getting better day by day. The efforts are noticeable too.

Good to hear you guys are listening to users, because this is the best way to enhance a program. I know you're a good Lw user as many people in the team are, Like Deuce, and Proton the great so ...i think 2005 will be a great year for Lw and NT.

Operation the team is actually listening to us. be sure to send your wish list and ideas also by email to Nt , because it will be stored in their database of feature requests.

Enhancing Lw is a hard work even because IMHO some years of developing were lost with the old team. Lw is a cool app right now, despite some probs that i think will be solved for sure.

UnCommonGrafx
12-26-2004, 09:36 AM
Elmar!
Always great to hear from you on such matters.

Hey Operation, this is ONE serious guy and he's working on the app we love to make it what we want. {You should google his volumetric plugin info -- medical imaging with LW}

It is a pretty serious team.

pixelinfected
12-27-2004, 04:42 AM
Hi Elmar,
i'm glad to ear you, Merry christmas and Happy new year to all Newtek Team.

then to reply to this absurd thread....
i use lw from 3.5 amiga, i grow with it, and use lw and many other software (real3D, solidThinking from its born like betatester under unix, maya, zbrush. lightwave, rhino3d) and no software or software house was innocent of bugs or easter eggs, or hidden feature.

usually i use 3d software for 3d project from simple design visualization to complex 3d animation, and from all software that i use, lw is unique software that allow me to produce 5 minutes in 17 days, produced by two guys, render time included.

all software have a bug, like maya5 that sometimes miss reflection or shadow, like real that sometimes miss obj position, like rhino that sometimes change curve grade without advise, and more.

new newtek team did miracle, polish and develop this new lw which powerful and stable like old 5.6 glorious days.

why most of tv series and animation series use lw instead of many other software? be cause they haven' t money to buy license of other software or be cause Lightwave is ones of best solution on the market?
i think last reason is good, and reason of choose for a lot of people.

if you browse some forum you see like newtek team is present everyday, with suggest and some word, they read all, and often answer.

never like today newtek and its develop team read and work on new generation of lw, long life to new newtek.

p.s. i'm also ones of that post list of bug or features request, but in past i was a developer and i know that big changment need team to do all.

my 2 $ (2 cent are too small ;-))

operation
12-27-2004, 11:38 AM
thanks to all of you.

Thanks for your answers.

If I put this thread in this post ( feature request). It's because I as you can read I sent "requests", "bugs report" to the old Lw team. - I got thoses answers " You don't need this features, others tools has got thoses fetures then use them ...etc... ". After sending mails , writing papers to explain bugs or missing features,making screenshots. I have understand that's an "human problem".

What I mean, it's before to ask some requests, we need some developpers interested by their works and LW and of course customers.

I know there is some stupid or useless requests, but there some gaps since 4 or 3 years wich have never been corrected.

ie: texture uv-view in the modeler, icon to move view if you're using a tablet, alpha pblms,etc...

I am only talking about things already exist in the core of LW.

I repeat myself, but my request is simple "a serious team".
I know it's not a request like " I want shadow map with point light, a sss shader, save radiosity solution...". but it was important for me to ask to have people who's listening to us.

As I told you, many of my friends (LW fan) , don't use LW anymore, because of the bad feed back with LW's team.

I know there is bugs in others software, there is no perfect software. But If you take a look to 3dsmax team ( I have the feed back from beta testers), the developpement team is listening to their users and sometime they still good tools from other software.

If you take a look to modo, you will see you can configure your interface, like maya, max, Lightwave,etc... and many powerfull options ( but everyone knows that they leave Nt with all the user requests. That's means for me that we can update LW with a lot of good features , only with a sincere team.


You already had read those kind of post. but It wa the first time I deceided to tell what I think, and I tried to bring a solution ...

about the "opensource website ?" I got no answer about this idea ...

pixelinfected
12-27-2004, 12:29 PM
i understand what you mean, i also sent tons of bugs, scene sample for bugs, list of feature and idea of how to implement it (small and big request) and every thing i need or what i think to do a better product i try to wrote it on forum and feature request e-mail of newtek.

i see most of my request and bug fix add in last update (8.0.1), and i hope that 8.2 solve more, but not often is simple to solve a bug, also if a problem is simple.
i think that until new team rewrite lw code, they can't manage completely the code and controll every part of it.

it's hard to debug software develop from itself, but debug software developed from other people, also if it's well documented and commented, it's usually an hell on earth, then i think new team did and do miracle, a really great miracle.

they need time, and i prefer a slow but constant progress, first step is stability, second step is lw enhancement, then incredible grow that cost stability. i use lw for work, and new 8 release allow me to do works that in past i was feared to do with last lw release.

go guys go

pauland
12-27-2004, 12:37 PM
If I were on Newteks staff, I think I'd find the suggestion that the team aren't serious offensive and indeed without substance.

As a LW user I think it's outrageous to say that the existing team aren't serious, there's no evidence to support your allegation at all, quite the opposite in fact.

You can moan all you like about the previous team - that's water under the bridge and not so relevant to the xisiting LW team.

You have to ask yourself why you hold up Modo as a standard, when that was built by members of the previous team, who clearly were'nt building similar features into lightwave modeller when they had the chance.

Paul

operation
12-27-2004, 12:46 PM
Thanks Elmar for your answer.

to pixelinfected :
we know that 0 bugs doesn't exist ...
about your 5 mn. project , it depends of what you're doing ( sometime it takes more time to do it in LW ie: character setup, radiosity, etc.. ).

I always choose the software (Maya,Xsi,LW,... ) considering the needs of the project.

Lw sometime is good, sometime is bad it depends of what you need or want to do.
But I agree, it's not an expensive software.
But what if Maya ( complete) or XSi would be at the same price than LW ... what software would you choose ? honestly ?

I guess you are a Lw fan, but I prefere to keep my head clear ( I mean not thinking like a fan but like a customer).

I have the right to ask myself if I will get what I am waiting for (from a software I gought.) or not.
I can ask myself : Do I have to put more money in the software to get what I want ?

I know you can do things with LW, there is a lot of productions with LW... but do you know really how musch LW was involved ?. ( I use LW in my projects, but sometime Lw was involed at 10 % sometime at 90 % or 100%).
In the past Iw as spending all my time to try to use LW at 100% in my project... even if it was easy solution in other software.
Now I have deadline, limited budget, I can't behave like a fan.

It's not normal, to see so much free plugin at Flay ( I mean plugin must be for special needs ) , if you look closely at Flay.com, you will see that some plugins was LW fonctions rewritten because some options or tools was missing.

ex: Motionpath .. you can download Motionpath+ from Dstorm, where you can choose the number of frame and the step ...
That's why I was thinking the old LW team was only developer ... adding fonctions but not improved in production ...

they was thinking like this " it will be cool to export a motion path, let's make a plug ... ", maybe they could think like this ... " it will be cool to export a motion , but we need to consider the step, the speed, the Ntsc/Pal format, knot, point in curve etc.. ) a graphist will ask himself those questions....
That's why I think that it's important to have a team who listening to us.
And as I said it's good to know on what they are working on.

ex: antialiasing, uv,etc...
like this we can orient our request in this way.

ex: if the next step is radiosity, we will all send our request in this way. if it's about Shadow..etc.....

that's why I think it's good to have access to the next features and a list of bugs we can read.

thanks.

operation
12-27-2004, 12:56 PM
Sorry to the new team ( I f you understand my post in the bad way )
I don't mean that you are not serious !! I know that it's a new team, and it takes time to improve LW.

by serious team, it's more to say :" I don't want to see the same thing I have seen the past."
for me, the team is very important, and they must not behave like the old team , because they was bad.

as I said before to put a request ( features,etc.. ), they need a solid team. who believe in the project and who will think to us.

pixelinfected
12-27-2004, 02:17 PM
hi Operation,
our 5 minutes prj was a full character animation project, over 5 million of poly, since 20 char on screen and a public on theather for over 80 other less controlled character, all in raytracing with area light and spot for render in video res.

i admit that g2 and fprime are fundamentals to produce that video in this kind of time, but final render was lw render on our little renderfarm.

if you check on spinquad forum there are two thread which i did like a list of most of free plugins which every serious lw user need to have, and i know that lw need it to do better and have more chance to work faster and finest.

lw is a solid and productive software, in our pipeline is fundamentals, only sometimes we use maya for some dynamics, where we found a faster solution for some problems, but actually if we think to buy other software licenses, we buy other lw license and hire new lightwavers.

i know lw in deep, i use it from 3.5, i know all weakness and all power of that software. and i continue to like it.

Ehm to be honest, i'm a lw fanatic, every day i try other softwares and learn new ways, if i find a better way to do something i go on new way, but actually i continue to like lw be cause it's a better way for me and my knowledge.

Have nice day Operation

operation
12-27-2004, 10:20 PM
thanks for your kindness pixelinfected.
I am using LW since Amiga , of course I am a bit fan. :D
I have 14 years experience in CG (movies, commercials, video clips, etc... ) and I am still working :) .
when my website will be online I will send you a link.

the good thing, is the new SDK, that will help to have better plugins.

pixelinfected
12-28-2004, 02:56 PM
Hi Operation,
thanks very much, i attend with curiosity the link.
have a nice day, and happy new year!

well, all together
Happy New Year!!!
2005 will a great year for lightwavers and for all people

Gui Lo
12-29-2004, 02:51 AM
I think we all had our frustrated times with LW in the past. It is true that we have to let the new dev team show us what they are about. I think they are still fighting the fires left behind by others.

Operation has a valid point in that we cannot see delays from the new team. The delays we have had have been the result of thorough testing. Fine. But please if you are shooting for a date even a general one please hit it or give no date at all. I would prefer no date but a list of features that we will see in the next update.

As I understand a lot of the new dev team is made up of past plugin programmers. These are really the people who know best how to fullfill the users wishes and how to plug LW weakneses.

Modo does seem a lot like LW but the head modelling tutorial looks like torture. no thanks.

Feedback help from the betatesters is really down to the indevidual tester and most are very good. Having a forum for features wouldn't make much of a difference. For instance we have videos showing off all the new features and still there are calls for more info.

Happy New Year.
I too believe it will be a very good year ahead for LW.

Gui Lo

Nemoid
12-29-2004, 07:47 AM
In all honesty what i see is that the new team started to make Lw progress with some important changes and good features. at first with 8.0 and the introduction of cool plugs in lw toolset together with bone tools etc. then 8.1 wich brought more stability and bugfixes and now the upcoming 8.2 with important enhancements for subdivisions etc. we also know that an updated SDK is on the works, L script and other things too.

delays depend also to maybe a bad comunication between marketing and the team, even if we know that programming is not easy and unexpected issues may present suddenly. this of course doesn't mean that Lw dev couldn't be better, especially compared to other apps like XSI but it means Lw is moving and that the team is serious and listens to customers. :)

Gui Lo
12-29-2004, 06:33 PM
Delays happen for a variety of reasons and can happen to anyone.

This has led some dev teams to only give an announcement when all the testing has been done.

For Newtek I agree somewhat with Operation. IMHO they should give a feature list and ask us to watch the vids to get an explanation of the features. People will still want to know when it will be available so an update of what stage they are at may not be too much to ask.
For instance they give a list and no date. Then the vids come, then we wait, people get anxious and demand a date. Then the dev team post a messege saying the features are done and the testing to go. Then a post saying half the frequency of bugs reported. Then maybe another post saying pre release bugs squashed but last minute change to ui. Then a post saying this is the final post before the press release.

Like Operation said this is still an update from the dev team but does not give any realease date or any mention of delays.

So please keep dates and delays internal and no appologies to the public.

operation
12-29-2004, 08:48 PM
hi to all,

yes Gui Lo, I have decided to post this after reading that the update will be delayed... that's why I explained that makes me remember the old team process.
The old team was always giving a date, after several delays the version came out with bugs ( ok for bugs, we can't expect a perfect version) but they share an "hurry version" cause they are too late.

Please not date: until you have made all beta tests, and until you are sure , you can give us a date. As I said , it's not a whim, but I use LW as a freelancer (professional ), I need to know if I will get features to correct or help me in my production ( Like this I can think or change my pipeline ).

the list of current implemented features and comming features is important too.
Like this I can think about my futur prod. (if it's possible to do it or not, if I will be stucked)

A list of bug (corrected and not), and a list of reported bugs by customers.
Like this we can see if it's coming from us or from the code ( sometime I lost days trying and trying, and finally understand it's coming from a bug.

Sometime a workaround exist for those bugs!!! It's good to share the infos... ie: transparency and hypervoxel, a value of 0,001 % make transparency work. Voumetric and alpha saved in Cineon format ..etc....


Can you tell us (Nt, LW tream) what do you thing about sharing those kind of infos in a "Lw progress" section on the Nt website ?

cheer up!

operation
12-29-2004, 09:06 PM
dstorm share the infos ...look at the 8.2 subjects ( there are movies)

http://www.dstorm.co.jp/products/lw8/index.htm#820


why can we get infos like this from Nt website ? :(

Nemoid
12-30-2004, 07:28 AM
it would be surely fantastic to have a clear vision of what needs to be enhanced in lw, and what is on the works right now. what bugs, what features, how about the sdk , l script and other lw related problems. this is what i'd like to see, because every customer's suggestion or report of bugs can be useful for lw.

maybe that the list of bugs and things to do is really huge, but a public report list of the work in progress would be a great thing for us. this way we would have a good way to see lw progress in realtime.

i know the team listens and store most of our suggestions, featurs and bug reports, but the feedback could be more direct and transparent.

not every company does things like this, but it would be important for the future of Lw. just think to apps like Silo or even Blender wich rely so much on the community for their development and make your own considerations.

Karmacop
12-30-2004, 05:18 PM
operation, those videos are japanese versions of what Proton has already shown to us.