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slick_o_matic
11-23-2004, 12:19 PM
Will LW 8.2 feature the ability to TAB through all panels without issues? It is spotty at best on LW 8.1.

moubctez
11-23-2004, 03:34 PM
So the tab. Will 8.2 be a native MacOSX (Mach-O) application, and will there be a chance developing plug-ins with Xcode? Not to mention G5 optimisations? How come 64-bit LightWave will only be available for Windows? Shame.

Lightwolf
11-23-2004, 03:51 PM
Will 8.2 be a native MacOSX (Mach-O) application, and will there be a chance developing plug-ins with Xcode?I doubt it, since it would break all compatibility to existing plugins (except for LScript that is) They will have to switch for the 64bit port though.
Not to mention G5 optimisations?Depends on the compiler used I guess. How is Codewarrior doing on the G5 front? C4D has a couple of G5 optimizations, but they are done by hand, and I'm not sure if they are just in Cinebench or not (where they gain an extra 10-15%)
How come 64-bit LightWave will only be available for Windows?There was a statement from Chuck saying that the 64-bit port for the Mac is in the works as well. The guess is that NT just want to be the first to jump in the Win64 wagon with their release. In the first half of 2005 we'll see.

Cheers,
Mike

eblu
11-24-2004, 08:14 AM
lightwolf... not to jump down yer throat ;)
but... i think you'll find chuck's official statement about 64bit Mac LW was little more than a vague promise... but it was well documented that LW was moving to Xcode first, and that means breaking compatibility with existing plugins.

I think you'll agree the mac LW plugin market is so small that the damage won't be nearly as bad if they broke compatibility with all the pc plugins.

nobody has said either way what will be required to build plugins for Xcodeified LW, but to retain backwards plugin compatibility... thats got to be more work than to require the plugin developers to re-compile under xcode.

also... nobody has said yet whether 8.2 will be xcodified. color me jaded, but I don't believe that it is. Newtek seems to be making a tough transition to a new dev team on the PC side of things, and i just don't see them finishing that many internal transitions very smoothly or in a timely fashion. I'd Love to be proven wrong, but history and newteks lack of ANY announcements at all of any mac features in 8.2 suggests at least a little more time, before we see an improvement on that scale.

Lightwolf
11-24-2004, 08:23 AM
lightwolf... not to jump down yer throat ;)
No worries :)

But you just seem to re-phrase what I have said, so we agree I guess ;)
Anyhow, we'll all need re-compiles if LW goes 64 bit, no matter which platform.

There was a mention by Scott ages ago about talking to Apple and trying to find a way to compile plugins for current LW with XCode, but I assume there was no success (anyhow, since XCode is free, a re-compile won't really hurt).

BTW, the is not the transition to a new dev team on the PC side, but on the LW side... I mean, probably 95%-90% of the code in there is OS agnostic...

I still think the 64bit / XCode jump will happen at the same time on the MAC side of things. Once you're over on the new compiler, if the remaining code is 64bit safe anyhow, it'll just be the flick of a switch...

Cheers,
Mike

eblu
11-24-2004, 01:07 PM
No worries :)


BTW, the is not the transition to a new dev team on the PC side, but on the LW side... I mean, probably 95%-90% of the code in there is OS agnostic...


Cheers,
Mike

I know what you mean, but even though its basically semantics, I don't believe LW is platform agnostic.
the vast majority of the code is written on a PC by PC trained OpenGL engineers, they obviously have a great deal of experience in getting a windows machine to work well with openGL, and very little experience doing so on the mac. they can't help but set things up to work well on a PC from the get go, even though it may not work so well on the mac.

it is my opinion that LW is "platform agnostic safe" ie: it can Work on multiple platforms, but is not optimized through design nor profiling for any but one platform. if Newtek was serious about any platform besides windows, you'd see it in the results and the marketing.
the results indicate that mac LW is slower, more bug ridden, and roughly ported.
the marketing is almost non existent.

I appreciate the position that the developers are in, I acknowledge the huge amount of work done, and the fact that they are working on the stuff we want done even as we speak, but lets get real... LW is not platform agnostic, simply because the individual developers are not platform agnostic.

And hey, I don't mind that, I am not by any means platform agnostic, and wouldn't dream of insisting that someone who isn't agnostic pretend to be. nor do i mind that Newtek asserts that LW is platform agnostic. its all marketing, and its the status quo. But just between us, lets face it... Mac LW is the red headed step child of Newtek's product line, and thats been the case since day 1.

anyway, like I said, it semantics.
happy turkey day.

Lightwolf
11-25-2004, 02:12 AM
the vast majority of the code is written on a PC by PC trained OpenGL engineers, they obviously have a great deal of experience in getting a windows machine to work well with openGL, and very little experience doing so on the mac.
Well, openGL itself is pretty platform agnostic too :) Allthough you have more issues with different drivers and feature sets than anything else.
And, looking at some of the thread about openGL on the Mac, you'll have to give Apple some blame for that too...

Cheers,
Mike

-on a side note: LW seems to have an internal "SDK" just like it has one to the outside. Only a minority of features in 8 for example change the way LW talks to the outside. You can pretty happily code away on just any kind of box and be sure it will compile and run on the other system if you stay within the borders as defined by the SDK.
With openGL it is a bit more tricky, but basically, if it runs on one box it should run on the other as well, there isn't much you can code differently (Remember, openGL is after all just another API, but standardized across platforms).