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View Full Version : Not enough memory errors?????



sgregerson
11-16-2004, 02:37 PM
:confused:
I have a scene topping 8 million polygons. My computer has 4GB memory. When I go to render, I'm getting errors like. "Not enough memory for sorting arrays" or "Not enough memory for object polygon data" or "Not enough memory for object point data"
etc.

I can't believe that 4gb is still not enough. I'm still not even finished adding objects and I know that shows like Jimmy Nuetron have more polys than this.

Any ideas?

JamesCurtis
11-16-2004, 03:53 PM
Are you trying to render all in one segment [or pass]?

If so, change the Segment Memory Limit setting to something like 10 or 12 segments located in the Camera panel. It's possible that this is your problem as LW will try to put all of the image/render data in memory.

JML
11-16-2004, 04:36 PM
I think LW can only handle 2Gb of ram max...
I do some high polygons scenes too... 8 millions polygons is a lot...
I don't know if it's possible... what resolution are you trying to render at?

because the objects are taking a lot of memory, try saving memory by using low resolution shadow map, and using 8bit textures instead of 24bit..
that's the only thing I can think of..
(or try replacing some objects with low-polygons if you can)

I don't know if rendering by segment is going to help, but you can try...
I think it would tell you something like "not enough memory for segment buffer"
if there was not enough memory for segment buffer

theo
11-16-2004, 05:30 PM
Wow- that's funny. I am having this same problem in Modeller- big time and I too have a powerful computer.

I do think I have tracked down the problem- though it is very disappointing if I am right. First time for everything but I think it is related to my texture maps and the fact that they are quite heavy. Since the these particular files will not be animated but are illustrations I opted for higher quality maps and boy has it caused me plenty of grief.

Thomas M.
11-16-2004, 06:12 PM
My octopus has something like 100k polys, but when rendered in SubP mode it's something like 1000k. The file size varried between 70mb and 4mb, depending on the amount of weight and uv maps. They are a real killer. No problem to open the model with any uv/weight maps, but with all maps I did arrange in the first place layout did crash or refused to open the model. Using the buffer saver plug in constantly crashed renders midway or in the end (after 6h, 3600x2800px). I remember working with Strate 3D on my old G3 266. Although it's been slow compared to these days, I don't remember running into this kind of trouble with memory (288mb in 1998). I could save my renders in progress, take the file to another computer and restart rendering. It even used a scanline render engine. Yeah, LW really sucks in terms of high res renderings and high poly scenes. Hopefully they work on these issues in the upcoming updates. .)

sgregerson
11-16-2004, 10:24 PM
This is a project that I've rennovated 3 times over 10 years. Going 15 minutes this time! This time I told the client the SKYs the Limit. Ooops. Should have done more testing!

I hope LW has no 2GB memory limit. I just built 3 dual xeons with 4 GB render boxes thinking it would solve this probem, but to no avail. I believe Babylon 5 had scenes upwards of 15 million polys.

I'll try the low segment memory.

I didn't think the scene had too many textures. Most of what I've built over the years uses procedurals except for the main land map. I dumbed it down to 256x256 (keeping power of two). I did notice that one model one of my subs did had some big 1600x1200 (no reason for them either)

I also upgraded one of my machines to LW8, hoping that would solve it. Too no avail.

I really wanted to go cart blanch on this one, so Its frustrating that there are still walls that possibly need to be hurdled.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll let you know the verdict.

Draven
11-16-2004, 11:02 PM
Every 32-bit program in windows has a 2 GB memory limit.

Lightwave in Windows is a 32-bit program.

Babylon 5 had scenes upward of 15 million polys? not any B5 scenes done at Foundation, unless those scenes were done it multiple passes. Consider that 256 megabytes of RAM was VERY expensive at the time (1998) and most dual PPro systems (they used alot) max'd out at 512mb.

Just as a note, the original version of the new Galactica model at Zoic was 5 million polygons, "wouldn't render reliably" and was reduced to 3.5 million . (see the upcoming article on my site, www.postresource.com )

sgregerson
11-16-2004, 11:05 PM
Well, no luck. Tried replacing all textures with 9kb 100x100 images. Put segment at 1mb. Turned off all extras e.g. raytrace, field, anti-alias, global Inllum etc.)

You can see attached the Windows Task Manager showing what looks like plenty of memory and the LWStatistics panel showing that object memory is only 401m.

Unfortunately it happens ups LW 6.5, 7.5 or 8.0. It also happens accross 3 different systems.

I'm sending it into tech support. Hope to hear from someone.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

sgregerson
11-16-2004, 11:23 PM
Ouch that bit a reality hurts. I company I bought the CPU parts from said when he sold systems to Dreamworks, that they only every bought 2GB of mem. I thought it was because they did things in layers and so didn't need it, and NOT because of a 2GB limit. I feel the fool. Guess I've already got my memory for the new 3 systems. Why would they build motherboards prepped for 8-16GB of memory? Upcoming 64 bit OS? I would assume the software would be a while after....

Thanks for the insite.


PS> I'm probably remembering a article wrong on B5. Seemed like 15 Mil, maybe tops 5. I just remember their 40 system render farm. Been a Newteker since 1990.

sgregerson
11-16-2004, 11:28 PM
Oh, also there is no one object with 5 mil poly. Rather the whole scene totals 5.6 mil from 360+ objects. Its a landscape fly around. I will have to limit my camera angles and cut to multiple shots rather than one long continuous fly around. Oh well.

Thanks again.

Exception
11-17-2004, 01:49 AM
My advice to you:

-Perhaps use MicroWave to make a number of polygons into maps. Works very well, I must say to you.

- Dont try to use Fprime. It is perhaps even worse at these sorts of thing because it is unpredictable. it will render but refuse to save.

- Try segmented memory indeed, since it tends to do the trick all the time. Use a network rendered for split screen rendering perhaps.

- Use the command line rendere to save a little memory.

Does Linux have a 2GB limit? I suppose since its 32 bits.. bit perhaps not. Look into it and perhaps render using linux?

BeeVee
11-17-2004, 03:59 AM
Using LCSM to optimise the scene can also save valuable wasted memory. You find it at the end of this interview: http://www.newtek-europe.com/uk/community/lightwave/phillips/1.html

B

JML
11-17-2004, 09:12 PM
to resume, some ways to save memory:
-reduce resolutions of textures if you can
-do not use jpg for those kind of heavy project, use tif and save your textures
as 8bit or bw for bumps, it will save a LOT of memory.
-shadow map takes a LOT of memory, try to reduce their size if you can.
(from lw book : a 1024 shadow map size takes 4Mb of ram)
-replace any high detailed objects by low polygons ones...

i'm working on a scene right now with a little more than 3 millions polygon,
with 6 spot lights with shadow map at 1024.
there are like 20-30 buildings totalling to 2 millions polygons and the rest is
a lot of low-polygons cars and trees... there are like 800 objects now.

it renders fine at 864*486 with 2gb, and I think it was rendering on my machine
at home with 1gb (but very slow, ram full)

I tried others scenes with 4-5 millions polys and it was working fine. but the test
was only with 1 raytrace light and a spot light with a shadow map of 8000
(the shadow map by itself takes 256Mb of ram)
I never tried more than that so I don't know if it's possible to render 8 millions polygons at once...

I don't like heavy projects...all time have to be careful with memory...

there are no objects in your scene that can be replace by less-detailed objects?

if nothing works, then you may have to render it in different render passes..

Draven
11-18-2004, 04:10 PM
Ouch that bit a reality hurts. I company I bought the CPU parts from said when he sold systems to Dreamworks, that they only every bought 2GB of mem. I thought it was because they did things in layers and so didn't need it, and NOT because of a 2GB limit. I feel the fool. Guess I've already got my memory for the new 3 systems. Why would they build motherboards prepped for 8-16GB of memory? Upcoming 64 bit OS? I would assume the software would be a while after....

Thanks for the insite.


PS> I'm probably remembering a article wrong on B5. Seemed like 15 Mil, maybe tops 5. I just remember their 40 system render farm. Been a Newteker since 1990.

There are server extensions available in Win2k/2k3 Enterprise that allow programs to address more than 2GB of memory. They are sorta hacks, very ineffiecient. Newer mobos are being equipped for >4GB because they anticipate the release of Windows XP for 64-bit extended systems in Q1 2005, which will be able to address memory for each app to the limit of the memory addressing for the hardware. NewTek has already stated that LW for 64-bit extended systems (Athlon64, Opteron, and Intel EM64T CPUs) "will be available for sale when the 64-bit Windows Operating System is commercially available" (straight from their press release)

I'd say that B5 was tops, 5 million, considering that the station was like a half million.. even then, it was likely rendered in layers, considering the machines had 256 or 512 mb memory...