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garv
04-09-2003, 11:49 AM
What's this I"ve been hearing about a riff between the 2 companies?......I"ve also heard that this is the reason no LW8 yet. By the way has ANYONE heard anything about a release date for 8? All the major packages are getting an update.....I'm feeling unwanted.....If any off you beta testers know of any new features nows the time to drop a few hints......throw us a bone!!!!

mattclary
04-09-2003, 11:52 AM
hehehehehehe... ;)

hrgiger
04-09-2003, 12:09 PM
Yeah, are you totally kidding us Garv?

garv
04-09-2003, 01:19 PM
Ok....so your not spilling any beans on 8......How about the luxology/newtek riff?
Is there any truth to problems between the companies?

mattclary
04-09-2003, 01:22 PM
There are no beans to spill about 8, it doesn't exist yet as far as anyone but Newtek know. Hrgiger and I are actually refering to the Luxology thing in our posts. Go read some old threads, no need to start a new one. The one that mentions Arnie Cachelin in the title is the most active currently.

Elmar Moelzer
04-09-2003, 01:36 PM
Yawn

garv
04-09-2003, 01:40 PM
alright....I see it's been talked to death......I still wish I had more information on what was going on......guess I should just get back to work.

hrgiger
04-09-2003, 02:25 PM
As do we all Garv. Unfortunately, nobody really knows anything and probably won't know until after Siggraph this year and even that's probably not set in stone. Until then, there's really no reason to speculate about it.

As Elmar says and I totally agree: Yawn.

private
04-11-2003, 08:29 AM
Garv, just ignore hrgiger.

This is the original story that people were talking about that started the whole mess. Then spend some time reading the numerous threads on the old board and at cgtalk. Use the search button, and you'll see why many people are disinterested in the topic from time to time.

http://www.cgchannel.com/news/showfeature.jsp?newsid=287

garv
04-11-2003, 11:55 AM
hey thanks for the link private,

that article actually sounds pretty positive........also I read in the thread "Looking forward to Siggraph" that newtek will have some " exciting things to show regarding Lightwave"...it may not be an 8 announcement but at least something is happening.

private
04-11-2003, 06:35 PM
Garv, as you must have read, Newtek has put the silencer on this and disputed some of the facts. So, again, this is only one side of the story before things fell silent on the Luxology half. You must take into account what Chuck has said on Newtek's behalf etc. So don't take the article like gospel, but I don't think it's all bs.

cgolchert
04-11-2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by Elmar Moelzer
Yawn


Ever think someone might have just joined the LW community?

hrgiger
04-11-2003, 09:59 PM
How's that?

faulknermano
04-11-2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by cgolchert
Ever think someone might have just joined the LW community?

well, considering how many mortar shells have been used thus far, you can blame the yawn. in vietnam, for example, a boot will dive into the mud at a slightest sound of gunfire, while the salt will just go and laugh at him. :)

faulknermano
04-11-2003, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by faulknermano
well, considering how many mortar shells have been used thus far, you can blame the yawn.

that should read "CANNOT blame the yawn." sorry.

cgolchert
04-12-2003, 02:20 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
How's that?


Heaven forbid that someone might have actually just started in the 3d field and not been trolling around the forums. It wasn't like the person posted "I think Luxology is going to kick Newtek's butt". They asked a simple question that seems to offened people enough post a yawn.

If the threads offend you why do you read them. Just for a smart *** reply? "Yawn", great, you are bored with this topic. What does it show that you still need to chime in on every thread?

If you look at this thread and delete all the posts from the usual "You're stupid for asking about Luxology" people, you would actually get friendly and informative (as much as possible) answers.

private
04-12-2003, 03:45 AM
Mmmmm. Hrgiger, there's a common theme towards you on this board and your opinions, eh? :) Told you so x 2.

hrgiger
04-12-2003, 06:56 AM
Um, I was referring to the fact that Elmar isn't new to the Lightwave community. I wasn't talking about gav's question. It does need pointing out however that there's already a few hundred posts about this topic if someone were to bother to look for it. It wouldn't be hard.

You might be getting friendly answers, but you're sure not getting informative ones. You might as well ask someone if there's a god then ask about NT/LUX because the apostles aren't talking.

Oooh, "told you so". Private, just as clever as a twelve year old as always.

Yawn isn't a reply to being offended, it's a reply to being bored as hell with a topic. And the last time I checked, living in a free country and all, Elmar and I have the same rights to saying "Yawn" as someone does posting an un researched question. Perhaps it is you being offended. Oh wait, it is you.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. YAWN.

cgolchert
04-12-2003, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Um, I was referring to the fact that Elmar isn't new to the Lightwave community. I wasn't talking about gav's question. It does need pointing out however that there's already a few hundred posts about this topic if someone were to bother to look for it. It wouldn't be hard.

I know Elmar isn't new, maybe Garv is.



Yawn isn't a reply to being offended, it's a reply to being bored as hell with a topic. And the last time I checked, living in a free country and all, Elmar and I have the same rights to saying "Yawn" as someone does posting an un researched question.

So you want them to research it without asking about it?

Yes, you have a right to say anything you want. Why be an jerk about it to someone that hasn't been around? If you are soooo bored with the why do you insist on reading all the posts?


Perhaps it is you being offended. Oh wait, it is you.


Yeah, I hate people that are turning the LW community into what it has become.

Epita
04-12-2003, 01:43 PM
yeah. i think ppl should look around before asking any question without looking around. this will get worse as this forum gets older. i think the rules should be posted somewhere as a sticky.

Epita (yawn)

Elmar Moelzer
04-12-2003, 02:31 PM
Sorry cgolchert, but thats the only reasonable (an not insulting) reply that came to my mind in that moment...
I cant help it, once I read luxology anywhere, my eyes get heavy and I cant help it anymore, I just need to do it, ups there it is again: yaaaaaaaaawn
;)
CU
Elmar

j3st3r
04-12-2003, 03:20 PM
Elmar, hrgigar. One question.

What will you do, if LW cancels? I think it`s natural, that if one is working with a tool, and the tool`s background became unstable (or it looks like it is unstable), the one will ask for details. Sure, because this tool is what he selected to work with, this tool is what he purchased, or invested. It` very natural, to dig into the deep behind the scenes.

IMHO, the personal future depends now on the tool you use. Look LW lost clients. Maya gets them. LW will loose plenty of clients (users), if LW8 won`t come out, and if the background won`t be clear. Currently I am considering of migrating to Maya, because it looks like that Maya will survive for at least a decade. I`m not sure, that LW will survive even one or two years.

Look, most of us are happy LW users. But most of us won`t get job in the very near future, if we settle with a sw, which has unclear background. And all those who are asking for details need some encouragement not a yawn

Elmar Moelzer
04-12-2003, 03:55 PM
J3st3r. I can assure you that LW wont cancel and that its future is bright and great. Looking at the crrent great LW- stuff on the TV and in film, I am quite confident that there are enough jobs for good LW- users out there.
But I have already said that before, nobody listened and I am not sure why I should repeat everything over and over again, therefore yawn...
CU
Elmar

hrgiger
04-12-2003, 05:07 PM
I agree with Elmar that Lightwave isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I think there are good things to come, this year even.
However, to answer your question j3st3r, if Lightwave were to cancel and it's hard to speculate since that's a huge if, I'd move on. There's plenty of other software out there. I'd prefer to use LW, but I'm sure I could love again. But since we're speculating, you have to realize that this whole talk of the LUX/NT debate is all just speculative. J3st3r, you doubt Lightwave's future. Why is that? It's exactly these kind of discussions that have led you to believe that. Chuck Baker has even said that people who were considering LW wrote to him with doubts after reading such posts. People blame Newtek for not coming out and making some kind of statement but companies are entitled to their secrets. You say you're thinking of buying Maya because you think they'll be around. I"m sure there is tons there that they don't reveal to the public, you just don't know about it. Everybody at Enron was happy as a clam until.... No software's future is secure, no matter how it looks today. You shouldn't base your decision off of "today tunnel vision". There are a lot of unhappy former SGI owners out there today. You keep jumping ship everytime things look uncertain, you'll never learn anything about any software to be worth a damn. Just IMHO of course.
cgolchert- when I heard Garv's question originally, I thought it was a joke. It sounded almost sarcastic like sombody just wanting to start another Lux thread. I asked him if he were serious. And when I found he was, my response, yes was yawn. It wasn't to be a jerk. I was just agreeing with Elmar that this is an overdiscussed topic and there's already plenty of info out there if you look for it. And yes, I think someone might want to consider researching a question on their own before they just ask anything.

Chuck
04-12-2003, 05:44 PM
Asking questions, whether you've done a search first or not, is just fine. Reacting negatively to a topic that you are worn out with is also just fine, and really does not make you a "jerk", provided you express yourself reasonably. Obviously, "reasonable" may be debatable.

Suggesting that someone need not have so negative a reaction to a topic is also fine, but making a personal attack on someone for their expression of their views about a topic is inappropriate, and I've moderated your "user title", "Private", for that reason. That also includes calling people "jerks". Debate the issues, not personalities.

Chuck
04-12-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by garv
What's this I"ve been hearing about a riff between the 2 companies?......I"ve also heard that this is the reason no LW8 yet. By the way has ANYONE heard anything about a release date for 8? All the major packages are getting an update.....I'm feeling unwanted.....If any off you beta testers know of any new features nows the time to drop a few hints......throw us a bone!!!!

Hi, Garv!

Welcome to the Forum! Any issues that may have existed between NewTek and Luxology have been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties. For reasons of confidentiality, there is nothing more that can be said about that matter.

As for your concerns about the future of LightWave 3D, please rest assured that future is quite bright and that NewTek, owner and developer of LightWave 3D, is fully committed to insuring that our amazing 3D product remains the leader in innovation and value. We'll have a number of exciting announcements for LightWave users and for those looking for the best price/performance in 3D in the coming months and at SIGGRAPH.

hrgiger
04-12-2003, 06:32 PM
Originally posted by Chuck

As for your concerns about the future of LightWave 3D, please rest assured that future is quite bright and that NewTek, owner and developer of LightWave 3D, is fully committed to insuring that our amazing 3D product remains the leader in innovation and value. We'll have a number of exciting announcements for LightWave users and for those looking for the best price/performance in 3D in the coming months and at SIGGRAPH.

I've already heard you say it Chuck, but I love it each time.:)

j3st3r
04-13-2003, 01:03 AM
I am also glad. I`m sure that all of us will be satisfied with the next release.

Concerning the migrating. Currently, here in Hungary Lightwave is very underestimated tool. Since we produce mostly games like Haegemonia, Platoon (I was involved in both title`s FMV), the main application is MAX, or Maya. Each time, when I apply for a job, they stare at me, when I say, I do want to work with LW, because I`m sure that I can beat their fastest Maya or MAX modeller guy with my LW skills. And of course I used to beat them.
Visit http://www.3dluvr.com/jester yoiu may see my artwork there. Most of them (if not the all) was created with LW, within record time.

So I DO hope, that LW future is bright. Because I used to be proud using LW.

hrgiger
04-13-2003, 10:31 AM
Those are really nice models j3st3r!

Epita
04-13-2003, 11:29 AM
Just a point.

Because a company does not produce a product anymore, does not mean that it will become instantly unusable and out of date. I am happy (not ham) with what LW can do at the moment, i would not feel it was absolutly necesary for me to have an amazingly uptodate version of a program, with all the funky things that i have absolutly no idea of using. stick with a program for a long time, ive been using LW since 5.5 and i still think it has a lot it hasnt shown me (lscripts)

THink about classic cars, many are not made anymore but ppl still have the, they are not thrown out because there is no support. If someone wants to find about about(?) a program that is no longer made, there will be places to do so.

*Close mouth, think*

Epita

j3st3r
04-13-2003, 12:45 PM
hrgiger: thanks! Alas my most beloved characters are not official to the public yet...After E3...They will be shown there as heroes of upcoming cvd title: PANZERS. A German Panzer Oofficer, and a French Resistance Heroine...

I`m little unpatient, because it`s about a month...OK, look at the bright side...I can prepare a small breakdown of the project...

Jester

garv
04-13-2003, 02:11 PM
thought I'd pop in and say hello considering I was the one who posted the original "offending" lux/newtek post....now I know.....Yes I am new to 3D and newteks forum......if anyone is interested in seeing my work it's at:

http://www.garv.org/

I do 2D illustration as well as 3D.....some of the 3D animations are heavy dowloads.....I'm workin on reducing their size.

hrgiger
04-13-2003, 04:07 PM
Hey Garv, that's a good collection of stuff. I like the website design as well, did you do it yourself?

Epita
04-13-2003, 04:19 PM
hey garv, wana reduce size, get Div X www.divx.com its free and very good at compression, whilst still retaining good quality

Epita

Carnera
04-13-2003, 04:21 PM
j3st3r :

very good work!...but some links are broken..(like the quicktime-movies "troll") ;( )
btw are you working at puppetworks ?
coz they are located in budapest too..;)

szia

andrás

MBA-Studios (http://www.mba-studios.de)
Carnera3D-Seminars (http://www.carnera3d-seminars.de)

Freak
04-14-2003, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Chuck
Any issues that may have existed between NewTek and Luxology have been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties. For reasons of confidentiality, there is nothing more that can be said about that matter.

I was wondering how you were going to pull that one off....

"that may have existed"

Swish!............Clever and smooth......

Because we all know that Luxology and Newtek don't have
any relationship..... ;) So how could they have any issues?

Heheh....

j3st3r
04-14-2003, 02:52 AM
Andras: as far as I know puppetworks cancelled its operation...:(

It`s a shame, that here in Hungary there are a lot of talented ppl, but the circumstances doesn`t allow their fine operation.

The job is usually very underestimated both in value, and time. It is very hard to find good contracts here. Alas the mentality of the customers is "Ok, it`s crap, but cheap!". So the quality work is not to be sold here...:-(

That`s why I`m constantly hunting for contracts outside of Hungary...


Jester

Carnera
04-14-2003, 03:26 AM
jester:
upsss....i watched their demoreel a few weeks ago and
i was very impressed by the quality..... great modeling, cool animations (but it seems that they used mocap) and the render-look was amazing (btw. do you know what 3d package they are using??) ..... to bad that they cancelled..;(

bye andras

Carnera3D-Seminars (http://www.carnera3d-seminars.de)
MBA-Studios (http://www.mba-studios.de)

j3st3r
04-14-2003, 05:38 AM
As far as I know, they were using Maya...or planned to use XSI? I don`t know...

But cancelling may be temporaly decision. Maybe time will solve their problem...

Concerning my site, I am up to do a major redesign on the site, so keep tuned.

robix
04-14-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by j3st3r
As far as I know, they were using Maya...or planned to use XSI? I don`t know...

But cancelling may be temporaly decision. Maybe time will solve their problem...


Okay, just to clear things up: there is no plan to cancel PuppetWorks. We've just completed two minutes of cinematics for an upcoming game, and started working on several cut scenes for another one. We will update the site as soon as possible, but--fortunately--we're quite busy at the moment...

Andras: On the software side. LightWave and MAX were used for some modeling and texturing, all the other things were done in Maya (including the rendering). We aren't planning to use XSI.

Oh, yes, almost forgot: we're also not bought by Apple, so those are rumours too! ;)

Cheers,

Robert Kovacs | Robix @ PuppetWorks Animation
www.puppetworks.hu

Beamtracer
04-14-2003, 11:03 PM
Chuck's earlier statement is significant:
"Any issues that may have existed between NewTek and Luxology have been resolved to the mutual satisfaction of both parties."

As far as I know this is the first public acknowledgment from Newtek that it has been resolved.

Did one company pay the other some financial compensation? We may not ever know. Most legal tussles that are settled out of court come with confidentiality agreements, where both companies must not reveal the details of the settlement.

What I'd like to know is... is there going to be two 3D applications or one? Are Newtek and Luxology going to produce separate applications, or do they have an agreement to work on the same program?

To rephrase it... is Luxology or any of its owners or employees working on the development of the program we know as Lightwave 3D?

I don't know why we can't know this. If it was any other company other than Luxology we would get an answer of "no"...

Q. Is Alias Wavefront working on Lightwave 3D?
A. No

Q Is Discreet working on Lightwave 3D?
A. No

Q Is Avid working on Lightwave 3D?
A. No

Q. Is Luxology working on Lightwave 3D?
A. ***Classified top secret information***

hrgiger
04-14-2003, 11:42 PM
Doesn't make much difference does it? It is being worked on, that's all that should matter. New companies typically don't reveal what they're working on until they unveil it to the public. Sometimes it's a matter of gaining a competitive edge.

Be patient, the answers are coming in the next several months.

j3st3r
04-15-2003, 12:03 AM
It`s a shame...I had mixed two names...

Sorry, guys. The one I`ve heard was another team, named similary. So sorry!

Moreover, I know these guys well, and I do know they are active...Geeee. I have to first drink coffe, before talking....

mattclary
04-15-2003, 07:05 AM
Beam, what does that tell you? The answer is obvious.

Freak
04-16-2003, 08:47 PM
I think it's pretty obvious really.....
As with everything never read the lines, read between them...

Initially i had thought the plan was for LWPro....
(i still think it's a good plan)

Make a Integrated version of LW, and call it LW Pro
and price it between XSI and Max.

It's very hard to service a Professional XSI market and a Toy C4D market with a singular product. Hence the reason we have XSI & Softimage and Maya and Maya Unlimited.

It's very hard to release a Pro version though, when you have just dropped the price on LW. You leave yourself with no way to go. Without a PR backlash.

BeamWrote:
To rephrase it... is Luxology or any of its owners or employees working on the development of the program we know as Lightwave 3D?

As we know Lightwave3D.......... No...............
But perhaps a more XSI looking version of LW... ;)

I think Brads comments on CGChannel regarding the empire and the darkside, should be enough to confirm ones ideas on the future of all.

I was wondering how we were going to suddenly tell the truth, without looking like a complete pack of liars.....

Easy......

Tell everyone the differences have been resolved. (and watch the collective sigh of relief from the community)
After that they won't ask questions, just breathe a little easier.
Besides, just claim it's all NDA and you can't speak about it...

And then just say " Any problems that may have existed"
are now fine....

"May have existed" translates to didn't exist at all.
Chemical Wepaons May have existed in Iraq, But they didn't.... :)

I think any differences between NT and Lux were fairly superficial,
and most likely had to do with the hype and hysteria on the forums. Internally, there was never any doubt that come release time, everybody would be friends again.

Maybe there was some holding out, to get maximum impact.

Some debate about who could say what, where and when, was the only real problems between the two.
Anything else was been driven by public hysteria.

Feels like a bad marketing exercise.

I thought it was funny that both sides were becoming the badguy. I guess it was time to make them both goodguys again.... :)

That woodywood pecker can be such a troublemaker..... ;)

hrgiger
04-16-2003, 09:47 PM
The idea of a Lightwave Pro is a stupid idea. Unless of course you're fine with elitest pricing. Tim Jenison, CEO of Newtek has stated that that's what he thinks of Maya's and Softimage's prices. Gouging. I don't think we're going to see a $4,000 and up version of LW anytime soon.

Beamtracer
04-16-2003, 10:11 PM
I actually like elitist pricing. It means Lightwave professionals can then charge elitist wages! :)

Lightwave is already a pro tool. I don't think they'd come out with a higher-level version.

For Lightwave users this is an extremely frustrating time. We don't know what's going on between Newtek and Luxology.

I was hoping that now legalities have been settled between the two companies that we'd get some answers as to where things will head from here. The ongoing speculation is still damaging confidence.

There must be some reason why Newtek and Lux don't tell everyone what's going on. I don't know what that reason could be. I can't see how keeping it secret outweighs the endless speculation that will continue to damage both Newtek and Luxology.

cgolchert
04-16-2003, 10:26 PM
Ok, the secret is that they closed the California office and moved everyone willing to go up to Toronto.

:)

faulknermano
04-16-2003, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by Beamtracer
I actually like elitist pricing. It means Lightwave professionals can then charge elitist wages! :)


you have to pay respect to the vision of the company. if the vision of the company is affordable 3d software then that's it. i personally think that newtek is very expressive about its vision and that's a good thing. while a company is out there to make money, it doesnt mean that it's just about making money.

Freak
04-16-2003, 11:29 PM
No i don't think the Pro version will eventuate....

Avid made it work with XSI....
A/W chose to make two versions....
Mercedes don't make just one model car,
and either does Micorosoft or anyone else...

You simply can't make ILM and Joe - Ex Hash customer happy,
all at the same time.....

3D for the masses equals massively less jobs and massivley less pay. You never drop your price unless you have to.

NT could still bundle Aura (TVPaint) and the VT3 and call it the Pro Bundle,so they really don't need to make a Pro version as much as the others do. (Although you would still be wise to do so.)

It was pretty obvious when the Lux page went up, that some unification was going to happen. It was the simplest solution, to solving many problems at once.

I think at times it has been a case of too many cooks in the kitchen. Ego's and public driven conspiracy theories, differing views for a common goal....

I don't think there was ever a chance that a happy ending would not result.

Beam Wrote:
There must be some reason why Newtek and Lux don't tell everyone what's going on. I don't know what that reason could be. I can't see how keeping it secret outweighs the endless speculation that will continue to damage both Newtek and Luxology.


Indeed......
That's always been the question!
I came up with 3 plausible explanations. As to exactly which is right or even half right, well i can't say for sure....

You could try tricking BP into a public display of stupidity, in the heat of battle but it seems he getting good at keeping his mouth closed, these days. :)

Likewise you could try to bait Chuck into making a mistake,
but dagnabbit, he used to program C-64's. So chances are slim.

Otherwise just keep sending Emails to CG.P with the subject heading, "Project Mecca - ineedtoknow" Eventually he'll crack. :)

Chris Wrote:
Ok, the secret is that they closed the California office and moved everyone willing to go up to Toronto.

LOL, That was the Discreet team...
But it wouldn't surprise me if it's just as trivial.

Who would want live in Texas? (ducks and runs)

cgolchert
04-16-2003, 11:39 PM
skip this message...the system will not let me delete it. :)

cgolchert
04-16-2003, 11:43 PM
Originally posted by Freak

Otherwise just keep sending Emails to CG.P with the subject heading, "Project Mecca - ineedtoknow" Eventually he'll crack. :)

What does CG.P know?


Chris Wrote:
Ok, the secret is that they closed the California office and moved everyone willing to go up to Toronto.

LOL, That was the Discreet team...
But it wouldn't surprise me if it's just as trivial.


Actually I meant the Alias group :) but if they both work....

hrgiger
04-17-2003, 12:26 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano
you have to pay respect to the vision of the company. if the vision of the company is affordable 3d software then that's it. i personally think that newtek is very expressive about its vision and that's a good thing. while a company is out there to make money, it doesnt mean that it's just about making money.

Agreed Faulk.

And don't speak for all of us Beam. This hasn't been a frustrating time for me at all. It hasn't damaged my confidence at all in Lightwave. What's going on behind the scenes is just that. Out of sight, out of mind. A company is entitled to it's secrets and it's dealings. The only ones who actually damage confidence are the one who do speculate. We're not shareholders of Lightwave so I think it's unwise to take the position that we are in some way are entitled to know everything that's going on all the time. Besides, as I understand it, there are legally binding matters at hand so it may be a matter of people would actually like to tell you what's going on if it were allowed.

Freak
04-17-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by cgolchert
What does CG.P know?

I don't know................ Yet! :)

But CG.P keeps his ears pretty low to the ground. :)

Well i hope somebody knows what that smell is by now?
Pooo - e thats an odour... :)

I think he knows about quantum theory, something something..... Maybe he knows some other stuff like why the sky is blue? But that's high level stuff.

:)

Freak
04-17-2003, 02:14 AM
I don't think Beam, did speak for us all HR Giger.
How could anyone ever speak for everyone... (ok Bush can)

I agree with you both it's been a trying time,
but in the end all you can do is wait and see.

Perhaps it was worth to worry a few people
about the stability, if the competitiors fell for the same line.

A company is entitiled to it's secrets, and it's customers are entitled to make it as hard as possible to keep them. :)

There will always be speculation when 1+1 = 3D
When you try and do deals behind doors, people will always look through the windows.

When your getting so much conflicting information, you don't really care whats right or wrong, only why there is a question in the first place. You can't blame customers for being cynical for the "Everything is great line" There were even public displays on forums from former staff members who were complaining about the situation.

Regardless, if you did read between the lines, or make a lot of noise sometimes people were good enough to let you know if you were on the right path. Which was appreciated.

In the end, it's looking good for the future and that's all that matters, We should get a glimpse of something come siggraph and possibly a release shortly after.

Now we can speculate if it will have integrated Aura 3DPaint
along with everything else. :)

Sounds like the biggest change to LW since sliced bread....

You have to be happy that after all that bitching, somebody somewhere, did actually listen to something, sometime.

:)