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View Full Version : 10.3.6 is OUT!! with new OpenGL drivers!



Ge4-ce
11-05-2004, 04:02 PM
Ok, 10.3.6 is released today!

those with the nVidia 6800 card! can you please give some comment about any improvements?

My G5 with 6800 arrives Monday, and I would like to know if 10.3.6 is a progress on the LW front.

greetz,

Ge4-ce

riki
11-05-2004, 08:34 PM
I'm downloading it tonight, still on a dialup connection.

blabberlicious
11-06-2004, 03:23 AM
Absolutely no difference to LW lame OpenGl performance.

At least for Lightwave. I don't have any games on my HD, so I can't vouch for them.

Rendering aside, the real problem is processor intensive way LW handles subD objects. LW's lack of regard for the entirely capable G4 processor means that we have to spend 1000's upgrading to G5 (with crappy graphics cards), just to get 'semi' reasonable display performance performance. It's embarassing, particualrly when it's outperformed by a 500 Dell.

Perhaps SOMEONE at NT should track down a mac and open one of their Character Rigs on it's own Content CD. I love to see a video of Proton trying to do a simple walk cycle with a rig.

It would run to about 10 hours (in-between pauses for crashes)

What miracles did C4D & Montionbuilder & Maya perform to get decent OpenGl?

We aren't going to see any radical improvements to LW's performance from Apple...
and I am pretty much resolved to the conculsion that they are even less likely to come from NT.

In the past, NT didn't think it's was important enough.

Don't take my work for it.

Just try using the apps on both platforms and you'll see what I mean.

One works,

the other looks like homework that been copied by someone who is 2 grades below (and doesn't get it).

That is not to denigrate Scott or PeterJ - who are obviously trying valiantly to make the best of a bad job.

I'm putting all my hope on Scott and Peter J to come through on this next update.

They have been kind enough to feed back to me some solutions and hint about fixes for some of my major bugbears. It must be very hard for them, dealing with legacy of the previous team, as well as overcoming the mountain of resentment that NT built up over the last 2 years.

Good luck to them. We are waiting for good news!

Is that enough pressure for you ;-)

Ge4-ce
11-06-2004, 03:30 AM
Actually, there should be a bigger team and a huge expert for G4 and G5 optimisation for the Mac-version of LW. Our dollars, pounds and euros are equally as those of the wintel peeps!

I also noticed the flakey OpenGL performance of LW. It's time to work on this!

Is there someone on the NT team who can give a bit of explanation around here?

Scott? Peter? Or Chuck?

Something like, we admit or we know there are problems, and we are working on it, or we know what the problem is, but... that kind of of stuff helps us a lot!

blabberlicious
11-06-2004, 06:31 AM
FYI

I've had polite replies from Peter & Scott on many of these issues.

But, ultimately, actions speak louder than words - we've been let down for so many times before.

Peter J is well aware of the disparity between the two platforms, but ultimately it's up to NT bosses to decide how much money they want to give him to bring things up to standard.

Judging by their history - I'm worried that NT are 'comfortable' saying one thing, but doing the other.

I hope Peter can break their bad habits.

:-)

Nigel Baker
11-08-2004, 09:40 AM
Yes, it would be nice to get some supprt from NT on this issue, after all we are most definitively supporting them.

turbo
11-08-2004, 10:02 AM
@ Blabberlicious...

True that mac ppl shouldn't have to spend tons for upgrades all the time, BUT..
The difference in performance of LW on a DP G4 500 and a DP G5 2GHZ is unbelieveable.
I upgrade my macs every 4-5 years anyways and this one was the most noteable.

- given the above info.. I'd put some of the responsibility on Apple :rolleyes:

tallscot
11-08-2004, 06:49 PM
I have a dual 2.5 Ghz with a 6800. What test should I perform?

policarpo
11-08-2004, 08:37 PM
Being Dual Platform and many app saavy, all I can say is that LW on the Mac sucks. Performance and stability wise. My crappy 1ghz P3 ran circles around my 1ghz PowerBook and Dual G4 1ghz QuickSilver.

Granted, the Dual G5 is probably stellar, but the fact that I ordered a Dual 2.5 in June, and Apple couldn't deliver until late October, early November, I had to go with a Dual Xeon from BOXX.

Needless to say, since doing this I've pretty much started using C4D and XSI Exclusively, and my dears...it is pure bliss. I also recently had the opportunity of picking up Modo...and you know what...it freaking rocks on my Mac (yes, my whimpy 1ghz PowerBook). It feels very fluid and feels great to use.

Anyhow, I've submitted my complaints about performance in LW for quite some time now, and I just about lost it completely when I tested an IKBoost rig on my PowerBook and my crappy 1ghz P3 and the performance difference was night and day (it ran like promised on the PC, but like a total dog on the Mac). Not really sure why, but I know I documented it fully and submitted it immediately after LW 8 was released.

Anyhoo...I hope the best for Scott and Peter...I know they're under tremendous pressure, so I wish them well when dealing with the legacy we all know about.

I think it's time to really bear down and focus on making everything right by chucking what doesn't work.

I just hope people can wait for that day... ;)

All the best team.

tallscot
11-09-2004, 11:21 AM
Seriously,

How do you benchmark the OpenGL performance in LW in a scientific way, versus an anecdotal way?

Which scene should I load up and play? Are there display resolution settings I should use, preferences, etc.?

Thanks

blabberlicious
11-09-2004, 11:55 AM
Seriously,

How do you benchmark the OpenGL performance in LW in a scientific way, versus an anecdotal way?

Thanks

1. From the LW8 Content directory try opening: Proton2-rig.lws

2. Try working with it, even with 1 subDs, single window etc, etc.

3. Wonder if your high spec machine has been hijacked by NT code and turned into a 80's Atari console.

4. Consider many ways to 'improve performance', all of which take time, all of which are workarounds to accommodate poor OpenGl performance.

5. Unearth a low spec PC, and open the same scene.

6. Burst into tears, realising its display speed trashes LW on your mac.

7. In desperation, Download C4d demo, open the Proton rig LW scene on your mac, watch it fly..then...

8. Repeat stage 6.


I can't vouch for the G5 2.5, but unless after using the Dual G5, I think you'd be mad to want to do Character animation on LW Mac.

Just my opinion, or course.




:-)

tallscot
11-09-2004, 12:04 PM
I don't have that scene.

fronzel
11-09-2004, 12:15 PM
No improvments here.

**** **** ****, oh well $500 gone.

Thank you apple. nice drivers!

well I guess it's time to start building PC's

quick question about those.

I've heard that when ever you save a file on a pc it's name and pretty much it's content should have underscores in it. like texture_01 or Layer_01 or object_01 and not sceen 01.

so when I open up some of my mac LW stuff on a PC is it going to blow it up? :o :mad:

Ge4-ce
11-09-2004, 04:03 PM
1. From the LW8 Content directory try opening: Proton2-rig.lws

2. Try working with it, even with 1 subDs, single window etc, etc.

3. Wonder if your high spec machine has been hijacked by NT code and turned into a 80's Atari console.

4. Consider many ways to 'improve performance', all of which take time, all of which are workarounds to accommodate poor OpenGl performance.

5. Unearth a low spec PC, and open the same scene.

6. Burst into tears, realising its display speed trashes LW on your mac.

7. In desperation, Download C4d demo, open the Proton rig LW scene on your mac, watch it fly..then...

8. Repeat stage 6.


I can't vouch for the G5 2.5, but unless after using the Dual G5, I think you'd be mad to want to do Character animation on LW Mac.

Just my opinion, or course.




:-)



Well, it works for me! But I do have to admit, for a dual 2.0 G5 nVidia 6800, it could be better..

But simple turnarounds in perspective-view, work just fine! I think this issue has something to do with the rigging! with the IK calculations etc.. The OpenGL performance is cool with me! I can imagine if the IK calculations and optimisation is not good for the Mac version, then the OpenGL performance suffers under the lack of processingpower...

But as said before, Mac and PC should be equal.

The Hummerscene is a good scene to test OpenGL performance. Make a preview of this scene and compare

tallscot
11-09-2004, 04:27 PM
The hummer plays textured in real time, as far as I can tell. It takes about 6-7 seconds to play the entire scene.

But on the subject of OpenGL, there definitely seems to be an issue with Macs, because the Cinema 4D Cinebench measures OpenGL performance and even the dual 2.5 G5 with the nVidia 6800 is way, way behind the PCs' scores.

Chazz
11-19-2004, 11:47 AM
I got my 6800GT Tuesday and pulled the aging ATI9600 out of my 2ghz G5. When compared to the 9600, things in general have gotten a lot faster. I bought a new 23" display a few weeks ago and the 9600 had a hard time with large windows...and Expose was clunky. Now I can zoom it out with a quicktime movie playing, a large Layout preview running, itunes visualizer going and a modo model spinning and it's still ultra smooth. Impressive, you won't see anything like that on a PC. But since we're talking preview speed, I will say in general I'm a little let down.

I wasn't too thrilled in general with Lightwave preview speed on the card. Not wanting to be totally negative, I will say that while Layout and Modeler don't seem considerably faster, I can run large previews, crank up the texture resolution and window display speed doesn't even blink...very nice. The Graph Editor and Schematic views are move really fast as well.

I also wasn't too impressed with Cinema 4DXL, but then I haven't upgraded to 9; I'm still using 8.5. The big winner in the 3D realm here was modo. Modo's OpenGL preview speed gains are very noticeable. One of the models I'm working on is a city at around 300K tpolys (about 100K are textured too. Navigating around even with the textures on is very speedy....I'm lovin' this!

I do know the pain of using a G4 with 3D though...if it's not working for you, you owe it to yourself to check a G5 or just go PC - the difference is like night and day. I hope we get some more info from Newtek soon about the Xcode transition they announced some months back...I'd love to hear what's being done about OpenGL performance.

riki
11-19-2004, 04:27 PM
I'm not able to view Viewframe Mode even with a simple model in Modeler. I posted a screenshot here of my woe.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?p=229163#post229163

Chazz
11-19-2004, 05:52 PM
I'm not able to view Viewframe Mode even with a simple model in Modeler. I posted a screenshot here of my woe.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?p=229163#post229163

Do they stay like that or go back to normal when you move the viewport? I get something like that with mine too...the viewports go a solid yellow color.

riki
11-19-2004, 06:38 PM
They tend to pop in and out. But mostly just white and unseable in wireframe mode.

Chazz
11-21-2004, 09:27 AM
If I were you, I'd see if I could find an ATI on ebay - the 9600 is probably pretty inexpensive. Everything I've ever heard about the 5200 is that it's a dud. I used LW for over a year on a 9600 and never had any trouble.

pat-lek
11-21-2004, 10:15 AM
I'm not able to view Viewframe Mode even with a simple model in Modeler. I posted a screenshot here of my woe.

http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?p=229163#post229163

It' s like this:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=30057&page=2

riki
11-21-2004, 03:16 PM
uuuggh It's just ironic that I never had this problem on my 400Mhz G4 with a 16meg card and a 21 CTR.

tallscot
11-22-2004, 10:42 AM
I've got a 2-month old ATI 9600 XT with 128 megs RAM for sale, if anyone wants it. It's the OEM card that came with my G5.