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Nova L
10-29-2004, 01:15 AM
Ok... Yesterday I bought me a useful tutorial guide book on Character Animation by Timothy Albee. Now everything was going ok until I got to chapter 5.4... Parenting bones! The problem I'm having is I made a awful mistake of parenting one bone to the wrong bone.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v44/kichigai/screwup.png

The line where the red arrow is the mistake. How do I unparent the LeftShoulder and LeftHand_Trans? I can't find anything on unparenting in the book.

Please help. I really don't want to start this all over again. :confused:

Dodgy
10-29-2004, 03:25 AM
You can do this many ways.
1/Go into the scene editor and click drag the hand under the arm bone you want it parented to.
2/ Go into the motion options(press 'm') for the hand and select the new parent for the bone.
3/ In the Schematic view, select the object to be parented, and then ctrl-lmb click the item to be the parent.

Use the options panel (press 'o') to toggle parent in place on or off.

ginhan
01-09-2005, 08:24 PM
Hey Nova L,
I know this message is pretty old, but I was doing a research on for anyone with albee's character book. Just curious if you had any problems after you did your rigging.
After I finished rigging, my hand_trans doesn't seem to work correctly. what's happening is that I don' see the use for the hand_trans bone. When I move or rotate it , nothing happens.

I went throuh the book to look for any missed steps, but didn't find any. I don't remember Albee saying anything about welding it's points. Was yours okay?

thanks.

spec24
01-09-2005, 08:36 PM
Hey ginhan - I'm a student of Albee's book and I use most of his methods for character animation. The hand_trans should be parented to your root bone/handle bone (whatever you are calling it). The hand null is parented to it (the hand_trans), and of course the bones of the arm are an IK chain with the end of the chain pointing to that null. So when you move the hand_trans bone it moves the null and the arm bones follow. Not sure why you are not getting any movement. Is IK on? Are the bones active? Do they all have their weight maps applied? Is enable deform checked?

ginhan
01-09-2005, 10:15 PM
everything seems to work fine, except the hand_trans..
I think what might have happened is that on page 61 he says to unweld them.. (the forearm, righthand_trans and righthand_rot)...

I think what you're talking about is the hand_rot.. that is behaving as he described.

I never welded the righthan_trans and _rot back... that's the only thing that I've nocticed.

I've parented them together in layout, but that still didn't work..

hey, for the legs, when I drag the knee bone up, my foot isn't attached to it...it stays put.. I think somewhere I have unwelded them also.

so parenting them isn't the same as haveing them welded ?

Noratio
01-10-2005, 02:19 AM
Just made a new thread asking the same thing the opposite way, how do you weld bones in Layout? I'll dive back in to manua.l

spec24
01-10-2005, 06:14 AM
welding bones is a modeler function, it is in essence the same as parenting them in layout - but of course in layout you can parent bones and not necessarily have them connected - in modeler they must be connected. The hand_trans would not be parented (or welded) to the rest of the arm, the hand_trans is parented to the root_bone. The hand_rot is parented to the hand_trans so when you move the hand_trans the hand_rot goes with it so you get predictable results.

Is the knee bone a bone located in the foot region? I know Tim gives some bones different names then one might think - he gives them names as to what they control, not necessarily what they relate to anatomically. If it's the bone I'm thinking of I'm not sure why you would move it, but maybe it's another bone. You should really ony have to move one bone in the foot area and it should articulate the leg. That bone should be parented to the model and not the rest of the skeleton. That way the foot stays put when your character is doing his thing.

ginhan
01-10-2005, 09:02 PM
I went back and welded the hands_rot to the hands_trans in modeler
I did forget to parent rot to hands.. so this is what I'm getting now.

my question is when I drag with the hands_trans, should I be getting a gap like this?

for the foot, I'm draggin on the knee and the foot/toes aren't following..
I don't see anywhere in the book about parenting the foot/toes to anything.


what am i missing?

hopefully the v8 character book has better binding. all the pages of my book is falling about!!

Dodgy
01-11-2005, 03:24 AM
If you drag them, they will move away like that, unless you're using them in IK booster mode. That sounds a little advanced for you right now, so I would read up on normal IK, and try that out first.

ginhan
01-11-2005, 07:38 AM
okay, you've answered that the "separations" are "normal" ,
but how about the foot, it's still being parented to the model, if you can see in my schematic view.

where should I have parented the foot to?

i'll look at one of his finished models and see (that should be "easy")

thanks.

spec24
01-11-2005, 11:22 AM
If you drag them, they will move away like that, unless you're using them in IK booster mode. That sounds a little advanced for you right now, so I would read up on normal IK, and try that out first.


NO - the seperation is NOT normal. This is not how the rig is set up dodgy. The gap is an error in the rig. When you move the hand_trans BONE the rest of the arm should follow. The hand_trans is NOT parented to the rest of the arm but is parented to the root_bone. The hand null should be parented to the hand_trans bone and the little bone at the tip of the arm should have full-time IK enabled and use that hand null as the goal.

why are you dragging on the knee??? That will not move your foot at all.

p.s. please don't think I was shouting - I wasn't :)

ginhan
01-12-2005, 07:39 AM
hey spec24...
you are saying "The hand_trans is NOT parented to the rest of the arm but is parented to the root_bone" which I do have correctly. The hand_trans should not be moved either, but rotated only correct?

But according to the book I have the smaller bone, the trans_rot (smaller_bone)parented to hand_trans (bigger bone) parented to root.

"why are you dragging on the knee??? That will not move your foot at all."
I'm just testing every bone.. and that's what I got...

so I don't know what I missed cause I went through the pages again..
soo confused.. :confused:

Dodgy
01-12-2005, 09:43 AM
NO - the seperation is NOT normal. This is not how the rig is set up dodgy.

why are you dragging on the knee??? That will not move your foot at all.

p.s. please don't think I was shouting - I wasn't :)

Forgive me, but I was refering to the kneebone. This bone shouldn't be moved, just rotated, as it is there to rotate the leg and control the knee position. Thus it is normal that it moves away, but you don't want to move it, just rotate it.
You shouldn't parent the foot to the calf bone, it should be parented by defaultto the mesh. There's a bone at the end of the leg which should be targeted at the foot and since the left leg seems to straighten, I'm thinking that's working correctly. You just need to get the hand working similarly...

As for your hand, I don't know about the rig, but there should be a bone at the end of the arm, which then has an IK goal assigned to it which is HAND_RIGHT_GOAL (I'm guessing :) ), this is parented to trans_rot, which is the bone you use for rotation only, and trans_rot is parented to hand_right_trans, which is the bone you should use for moving only.

I usually have my bones all connected in my skeleton and don't use the limb extremities as the goals but if it works for him...

spec24
01-12-2005, 10:14 AM
no, the hand_trans is the bone that controls where the hand is - hand translation. So yes, you want to move that bone and the rest of the arm is supposed to follow. The hand_rot bone should follow along with the hand_trans bone when you move it. I believe the trans_rot is the bone I am referring to as the hand_rot. Although I looked at your schematic view and I didn't see the bone you were referring to as the trans_rot - I did see something called Hand_RotationorPitch (or seomthing like that). It's been a while so I have forgotten what Albee uses for names of his bones :) . But the deal is you have two bones controlling each individual hand. A hand_trans bone and a hand_rotation bone. The trans bone controls where the hand goes and the hand_rot rotates it. The hand_rot is added because when you rotate the hand_trans bone you run into all sorts of problems - Albee refers to this technique as nested controls. You should never have to move the other bones in the hierarchy excepet those meant to be moved. Sometimes you may need to rotate bones (i.e. the knee bone you were trying to move). I have rarely though had to compensate for anything much in the legs.

p.s. sorry dodgy - thought you meant the hand.

Dodgy
01-12-2005, 11:43 AM
Yeah, i read through more carefully and figured out what he was trying to do :)