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View Full Version : VT[4] Alpha/Preview Out



hartley
10-06-2004, 12:44 PM
I understand you must upgrade the VT card to get the alpha and preview out. We only have one output on the SX-8 (and from what it looks like on the SX-84) for this. I assume you have an option of which you prefer. Is there any way that this new function would allow the DSK to be shown on that output? We use song lyrics in a DDR as a DSK source and would LOVE to get those (with no other video) on the output if possible. Can this be done with the upgrade or not?

Hartley

Jim Capillo
10-06-2004, 01:01 PM
the output is software selectable

Preview out

or

Alpha from Main

or

Alpha from DSK

or

Alpha from Main + DSK

:)

hartley
10-06-2004, 01:05 PM
So forgive my ignorance. If Alpha from DSK were selected would a monitor/tv be able to display what was shown on the DSK VT-Vison monitor? I guess I dont have a firm grip on what the Alpha out gives yous. Thanks again!

Hartley

Jim Capillo
10-06-2004, 01:29 PM
Sounds like it should....... :confused:

PIZAZZ
10-06-2004, 06:38 PM
So forgive my ignorance. If Alpha from DSK were selected would a monitor/tv be able to display what was shown on the DSK VT-Vison monitor? I guess I dont have a firm grip on what the Alpha out gives yous. Thanks again!

Hartley

Hartley,

I will check it out and get back to you later tonite.


I believe this will work for you.

Exactly why do you want to have the DSK output independent?

wvp
10-06-2004, 07:01 PM
I believe Hartley uses this in a church...
He wants to output song lyrics to a seperate monitor/screen and also output his switching of camera's, etc onto other monitors/screens - am I right Hartley?

hartley
10-07-2004, 06:56 AM
This is exactly right. We have requests for stage monitors to display only the song lyrics on them (what is on the DSK) as it will be much easier for them to quickly glance and "remember" what they are singing. With smaller screens at a little bit of a distance it takes some focusing to see the words over the video. Thanks again for the help!!

Hartley

Jim Capillo
10-07-2004, 08:09 AM
Why would you even need the DSK? You could just put the lyrics in a roll on black bkg, load it up in a DDR and simply play it on PVW channel.

:confused:

bbeanan
10-07-2004, 08:10 AM
This is exactly right. We have requests for stage monitors to display only the song lyrics on them (what is on the DSK) as it will be much easier for them to quickly glance and "remember" what they are singing. With smaller screens at a little bit of a distance it takes some focusing to see the words over the video. Thanks again for the help!!

Hartley

Humm... they are looking for a teleprompter... from what I understand I think this can be done if you give up your preview monitor output. From reading a few other posts it looks like you now have 2 outputs so that second output could be just the DSK... add in a sheet of glass and there you go a big telepromter.

Another thought is for a 2 screen set-up you could make one screen the Program Output and the second Screen the preview output. Now this would not be the cleanest but you now have a cheap Folsom 2402.

Just thinking out loud here...

eon5
10-07-2004, 08:35 AM
Can I get the alpha and preview out using the VT3 card upgraded to VT4 software ? :confused:

PIZAZZ
10-07-2004, 08:38 AM
Can I get the alpha and preview out using the VT3 card upgraded to VT4 software ? :confused:

No, the alpha/preview choice is only available on the new VTPro card.

PIZAZZ
10-07-2004, 09:05 AM
This is exactly right. We have requests for stage monitors to display only the song lyrics on them (what is on the DSK) as it will be much easier for them to quickly glance and "remember" what they are singing. With smaller screens at a little bit of a distance it takes some focusing to see the words over the video. Thanks again for the help!!

Hartley


OK did some testing for you. The preview/alpha out does indeed work for what you want. There are some limitations. You can't just send the DSK output like you would think directly out.
For Example: What you see on the DSK onscreen monitor is not what can be routed out. (maybe in the future)

You CAN send the Alpha out which can give you white text on a black background. So as long as your text is without graphics. You will see the Text as White on Black. That is the easiest to read anyway. If you have graphics in the page then you will have white blocks where those graphics are.

So yes Hartley, I believe upgrading to a VTPro would be a good thing for your situation. Do you want me to go ahead and place that order for you? :)

JReble
10-07-2004, 09:07 AM
I thought I read somewhere here that alpha was enabled on a VT3 card through an sx8 with the new software. Preview was not. Is this the case? Then again, I'm too confused already to be sure what I heard. :eek:

mgrusin
10-07-2004, 09:09 AM
Getting OT, the teleprompter idea intrigues me... the only thing you'd need is an DVE (but preferably a built-in output setting on Preview) that flips the output so when it's reflected in a sheet of glass in front of the camera, it ends up in the proper orientation...

Cool! -MG.

bbeanan
10-07-2004, 10:31 AM
Getting OT, the teleprompter idea intrigues me... the only thing you'd need is an DVE (but preferably a built-in output setting on Preview) that flips the output so when it's reflected in a sheet of glass in front of the camera, it ends up in the proper orientation...

Cool! -MG.

Or I just saw a telepromt system that uses a mirror so.... monitor is facing your talent reflected by the mirror up to the glass and there you have it VT-Promter... now we would just need a USB device that would scroll the text... all it would have to do is advance a DDR in JOG mode.

And if I read this thread correctlly you would just use the Alpha output and you could still have your preview.

eon5
10-07-2004, 11:40 AM
I thought I read somewhere here that alpha was enabled on a VT3 card through an sx8 with the new software.

This is my case, I got an SX8.

Any info about VT3card+VT4soft+SX8=alpha will be great.

Regards :)

hartley
10-07-2004, 12:11 PM
OK did some testing for you. The preview/alpha out does indeed work for what you want. There are some limitations. You can't just send the DSK output like you would think directly out.
For Example: What you see on the DSK onscreen monitor is not what can be routed out. (maybe in the future)

You CAN send the Alpha out which can give you white text on a black background. So as long as your text is without graphics. You will see the Text as White on Black. That is the easiest to read anyway. If you have graphics in the page then you will have white blocks where those graphics are.

So yes Hartley, I believe upgrading to a VTPro would be a good thing for your situation. Do you want me to go ahead and place that order for you? :)

Jef,

Thank you for testing that, now I can begin my begging for money. Unfortunately I think I've already spent next years budget... I'll be in touch. Or if you are looking for a donation to a non-profit you can send it overnight :) I'm also very interested in using powerpoint as a switcher input.

To answer others questions we use this system as a switcher which is why we can't use the preview out. The DSK is used to put worship song lyrics over the video live, which has been the best way to do it from what we've experimented with. This would be sort of a teleprompter but no scrolling at all, they simply want the words that are being projected on a monitor without the video behind them. Thanks again for the help!!

Hartley

PIZAZZ
10-07-2004, 02:12 PM
Jef,

Thank you for testing that, now I can begin my begging for money. Unfortunately I think I've already spent next years budget... I'll be in touch. Or if you are looking for a donation to a non-profit you can send it overnight :) I'm also very interested in using powerpoint as a switcher input.

To answer others questions we use this system as a switcher which is why we can't use the preview out. The DSK is used to put worship song lyrics over the video live, which has been the best way to do it from what we've experimented with. This would be sort of a teleprompter but no scrolling at all, they simply want the words that are being projected on a monitor without the video behind them. Thanks again for the help!!

Hartley

Yes Hartley then this would definitely be an improvement for you.

You can use the Screen Utility also. You would be able to route Powerpoint directly into your switcher.

Just thought of something else fun to try. We are not just limited to Powerpoint, you could also use worship lyric software like Prologue's Sunday Plus, Media Shout, or SongShow. Put the lyrics on a key able background and poof a great way to integrate lyrics into both the Big Screen displays and send the alpha out for the independent feed for the choir to sing along to. So the user can control the lyrics from the secondary software, it is added on top of the video or background graphics of a DDR, and all at the same time the choir can see just the lyrics. Neat.
This is a great thing for the church market is it not?

The teleprompter idea we are already testing out also.

PIZAZZ
10-07-2004, 02:16 PM
Just thought of something else.

The cost of a VT4 upgrade would equal out to pretty much all the hardware, computer, software stuff that you would need to create the same effect without VT4.

Let's look at it for examples sake:
MediaShout $399
Computer to run it independently $1000
Decent Scan Convertor to convert the signal from VGA to Video $300


That is $1699. Not far off at all consider you could do all the same thing and more just my upgrading to the VTPro card for $1999.

Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.

hartley
10-07-2004, 07:59 PM
I'm liking the sounds of this. So can we route the screen utility to the DSK? It just seems that if we can't route it to the DSK then we wouldn't be able to switch cameras with a fade since the screen utility would be occupying the preview bus. OR can you set the screen utility as a key and still use the preview for your next camera (or video) shot.

Now if we were running powerpoint for instance on the same computer using the screen utility is there a way to "route" keys to powerpoint over VT4? As in I have powerpoint running on screen 2 (or 3 would probably be the case), if I click to start a DDR or make another change within VT, would I not have to re-focus the power point window to gain control again? If you would I'm not sure that would be a smooth workflow. Very curious though as to this. This could save some major time over having to train people to use the not so intuitive CG. So many questions over one feature....

Hartley

hartley
10-07-2004, 08:03 PM
Just thought of something else.

The cost of a VT4 upgrade would equal out to pretty much all the hardware, computer, software stuff that you would need to create the same effect without VT4.

Let's look at it for examples sake:
MediaShout $399
Computer to run it independently $1000
Decent Scan Convertor to convert the signal from VGA to Video $300


That is $1699. Not far off at all consider you could do all the same thing and more just my upgrading to the VTPro card for $1999.

Hhhhhmmmmmmmm.


Valid point, however to play devils advocate here. Had Newtek even hinted that such a feature was around the corner we could have saved that much money instead of JUST buying a $1000 very nice scan converter and the same on a new computer to use for powerpoint/etc... Right there went my upgrade :) You do truly have me convinced, just need to find the money on a tight budget...

Hartley

PIZAZZ
10-07-2004, 08:06 PM
I'm liking the sounds of this. So can we route the screen utility to the DSK? It just seems that if we can't route it to the DSK then we wouldn't be able to switch cameras with a fade since the screen utility would be occupying the preview bus. OR can you set the screen utility as a key and still use the preview for your next camera (or video) shot.

Now if we were running powerpoint for instance on the same computer using the screen utility is there a way to "route" keys to powerpoint over VT4? As in I have powerpoint running on screen 2 (or 3 would probably be the case), if I click to start a DDR or make another change within VT, would I not have to re-focus the power point window to gain control again? If you would I'm not sure that would be a smooth workflow. Very curious though as to this. This could save some major time over having to train people to use the not so intuitive CG. So many questions over one feature....

Hartley


Yes you can choose the Utility in the DSK drop down. Yes you can still do all the transitions between cameras as the words are either displayed or not displayed depending on if you have the DSK on or not. The Alpha out will alway be on the output. What is displayed on the Alpha out will be determined by which input is chosen to be on the DSK bus.

If you have a RS8 then it commands the VT interface no matter what program has focus at the time. Mousing around would bring up the issue you described.
You can connect two pointing devices but you will still only have one pointer on the screen at a time. Train the users with a RS8 in control of VT and use the mouse for advancing PowerPoint slides. I do not know of a dedicated remote control method of Powerpoint. All the wireless remotes I have seen or used, emulate mouse rt and lt cliks to advance slides.

For some reason the average person is only using 1 maybe 2 programs at one time. Personally I hover around 9 or 10 ask my staff. :)