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jcupp
10-06-2004, 12:25 PM
I've had the vt[4] for a couple of weeks now and have tried to really dig into it and since everyone seems to have questions and the NewTekians are all off at the gov. video expo I'll step in and give you all my impressions of the highlights.

Software vs. hardware

The only features (currently) that are dependant on the new hardware are the four channel audio I/O, the switchable mic/line inputs, the preview/key output, the built-in genlock and possibly the "Full" tally light support since I'm not actually sure what that means :). I'm gonna guess that the new card has other tricks up it's sleeve for future releases but I don't know anything specific.

Live Switching

Cool new skins for DDRs that include a mini monitor so it is easier to tell which DDR is playing what. Across the board changes to all the skins that improve ones ability to see at a glance settings and operations. Tons of new transitions, ships with both PAL and NTSC versions.

Real, honest-to-God audio meters on the mixer, with calibration marks!

Support for multiple (more than two) monitors so you can display, for example, the VT[4] interface on monitors 1 and 2 while using monitor 3 for another program. Or spread the interface across as many monitors as you can get Windows to support.

The VGA screen as a switcher source

Real-time DV output.

Editing

Audio filters!! including compression and reverb. Blur individual clips. Quick access tabs rather than the pull down Hot List of VT[3]. Better audio meters.

Utility croutons. Your VT Edit project can now include switcher events.

Image Super Sampling for ultra high quality scaling of clips, it eats cpu cycles for lunch but once you see the quality you won't care!

Quicktime export!

Real-time DV output.

Audio

Did I mention the meters yet? Surround reverb in the editor. Four balanced microphone inputs on the SX-84 switchable to line level.

Floating-point audio so no clipping when you stack up a dozen audio tracks in the editor.

Three band EQ on all sources in the mixer, 8 band graphic EQ in the editor (on a per clip basis).

You can now choose not to route the analog input section of the mixer to the output. So you can record a feed from your house mixer while still feeding audio from a DDR back to that house mixer. If I had thought of this I would have requested it as a feature - cool.

Streaming

Integrated streaming module so you don't have to mess with WMEs stupid interface, can stream to ten users at once.

DVD Authoring
VT[4] ships with Ulead DVD WorkShop SE which will directly load VT Edit projects without pre-rendering or saving as an avi or anything like that.

Lightwave

Ships with Lightwave 8 need I say more.

Others may have different lists of favorite new features but these are the ones that do it for me.

-Jeff
Digital Arts
1-800-692-6442

Arbol
10-06-2004, 12:34 PM
Hi!

Something new about DV inputs work at same time?
In the new webpage of VT4 says:
" Live Switching: Unlimited DV inputs"
Is it true? or still dont work!!!!! :mad: :(

Thanks

Sandro Arbol

nelsonm
10-06-2004, 12:34 PM
HI,

So to upgrade from my current VT3 with an SX-8 to a VT4 for another "grand" i get:

- a new VT4 "pro" board

- and what else?

SBowie
10-06-2004, 12:39 PM
HI,

So to upgrade from my current VT3 with an SX-8 to a VT4 for another "grand" i get:

- a new VT4 "pro" board

Not quite, Nelson - the grand is for the software - the VTPro board is an extra cost option.

RandyM
10-06-2004, 01:57 PM
Steve,

Let me know how much your charging for an ungrade. I would like to have the new SX-BOB etc....

Thx

Randy

SBowie
10-06-2004, 02:01 PM
Steve,

Let me know how much your charging for an ungrade. I would like to have the new SX-BOB etc.... So would I :)

Please call me, Randy.

nelsonm
10-06-2004, 02:05 PM
Ok Steve...

1. What does "just" the software give me that i don't already have?

2. What does the Pro board give me over the standard board?

3. appearently there is a new SX-84?

So... it appears that if i want a full upgrade to VT4 w/ all the new hardware... it will cost me what?

bbeanan
10-06-2004, 02:23 PM
I found this link to the matrix on one of the other messages:

http://www.digiteksys.com/VT3-to-4_matrix.pdf

looks like for most users you could get away with just the software.... but I did see somewhere that there was going to be a trade-in good until 11/30/04 for like $1800???

Rich Deustachio
10-06-2004, 02:33 PM
The big question is how stable is VT4? As stable as VT3 is or are there existing issues?

SBowie
10-06-2004, 02:42 PM
1. What does "just" the software give me that i don't already have?

2. What does the Pro board give me over the standard board?

3. appearently there is a new SX-84?

So... it appears that if i want a full upgrade to VT4 w/ all the new hardware... it will cost me what?

As I understand it at this moment:

1) pretty much all the good stuff, except the dual simultaneous video outputs being discussed in this thread, the quad channel audio i/o, integrated genlock, and whatever added (largely future) advantage the 64bit bandwidth adds.

2) There are areas of the product matrix that could be clearer, Nelson, so I can't say much re: advantages of the new 64 bit card over the original when used *without* the SX-84 -- that will have to come from a better source, Nelson, sorry.

3) uhuh -- pretty similar to the SX-8 superficially, but required for the multiple i/o options mentioned above.


The hdwe. and sw upgrade from with (trade-in of your 32bit card and original VT[3] Program CD) is listed at $1995 until the end of November. I don't see a trade-in bundle that includes the new SX-84, but in all the news today I may be looking in the wrong place. In any case your local dealer will likely offer you some consideration if you are interested in the entire deal.

jcupp
10-06-2004, 03:12 PM
AFAIK there is no (NewTek) upgrade price for the SX-8 to SX84. You can continue to use your existing SX-8 with the new VT-Pro card and just plug into the mini jacks on the VT-pro card for the rear channel sound. We (Digital Arts) will probably offer some sort of trade in deal for the SX-8 for those of our customers that want the preview output. But we haven't established a policy for that yet.

I'd guess that with the price increase existing SX-8 owners will be able to get nearly what they paid for the SX-8 on the used market (once again NewTek looks out for their existing customers). I don't think the price increase will have much effect on sales and it certainly increases the value of the existing VT base. Plus it gives NewTek and dealers a little more manuvering room for specials and discounts.

Oh, and I think it is possible to use the real-time DV output as a preview in a pinch, I haven't played with that yet though.

-Jeff
Digital Arts
www.DigitalArts.tv
1-800-692-6442

SBowie
10-06-2004, 03:25 PM
You can continue to use your existing SX-8 with the new VT-Pro card and just plug into the mini jacks on the VT-pro card for the rear channel sound. Jeff, can you comment on the advantages of the SX-84 with the Pro card over the SX-8 in the same configuration? My understanding is that you would not get the genlock, prev/alpha or key output, or quad audio channels -- but I'm not real clear on your point above... thanks!

jcupp
10-06-2004, 04:18 PM
The SX-84 gives you four balanced audio ins switchable between mic and line, four balance line outs, the preview/key output, the genlock in and the improved tally support (I'm not sure what this is exactly yet :confused: ). AFAIK the SX-84 requires the VT-Pro card.

The VT-Pro card gives you four channel audio I/O support. If you don't have the SX-84 the audio is input and output through four stereo 3.5mm jacks. With the SX-84 the audio connects via a 15 pin connector on the VT-Pro rather than the mini jacks.

If you have an old SX-8 you cans still run the front channel audio through it while using the mini jacks directly for the rear channels. The SX-8 gains no new features with the VT-Pro but doesn't lose any either.

Using the legacy VT card you can still 'do' four channel audio with the VT[4] software you just can't hear it until you render it to an avi and play it on something else.

SBowie
10-06-2004, 04:20 PM
If you have an old SX-8 you cans still run the front channel audio through it while using the mini jacks directly for the rear channels. The SX-8 gains no new features with the VT-Pro but doesn't lose any either. Thanks - the SX-8 won't provide the extra video output either, though, correct?

jcupp
10-06-2004, 04:38 PM
That is my understanding, but I've not yet had the chance to actually try it. I'm an empirical kinda guy :D

SBowie
10-06-2004, 04:41 PM
Thanks Jeff!

ACross
10-06-2004, 05:19 PM
Thanks - the SX-8 won't provide the extra video output either, though, correct?

Actually, if you have an SX8 with a new VT card (VTPro card) then the preview output will come out of the "Key" connection on the SX8.

Andrew

jcupp
10-06-2004, 05:21 PM
I was hoping that was true - cool

-Jeff

SBowie
10-06-2004, 06:11 PM
Actually, if you have an SX8 with a new VT card (VTPro card) then the preview output will come out of the "Key" connection on the SX8.

Andrew And thank YOU, yer eminence. :)

wvp
10-06-2004, 06:54 PM
... advantages of the new 64 bit card over the original...
Steve, I have not seen Newtek mention that the card is "64bit". They do say "A free 66MHz PCI slot for the VT card is recommended for best performance" is a 66Mhz slot automatically a 64bit one?
In fact (keeping with their tradition), they have left references in to VT[3], such as this one on the VT[4] System Req. page:"The VT[3] should be installed in the 32-bit bus" Sure wish they would proof read the web pages before posting info on a $6000 system!


My understanding is that you would not get the genlock...
According to Draback's web site, Genlock is available with the VTPro card without the SX8 or SX84

If Jeff (Jcupps) is correct that you can input 4 channel without the SX84 then together with Andrews comment that would be pretty cool.

SBowie
10-06-2004, 07:09 PM
"A free 66MHz PCI slot for the VT card is recommended for best performance" is a 66Mhz slot automatically a 64bit one? <snip>

According to Draback's web site, Genlock is available with the VTPro card without the SX8 or SX84 I've been waiting for clarification on that, and may have been wrong about it. If so, I apologize. Although I've had a couple good looks at the system running, I didn't get the chance afforded to some to examine the card up close and personal for a couple of weeks prior to todays news.

As to the SX-8 and Genlock -- my understanding is that without the VTPro card you need the optional genlock card for this to work. I hope I've not misunderstood your remark.

PIZAZZ
10-06-2004, 07:43 PM
I've been waiting for clarification on that, and may have been wrong about it. If so, I apologize. Although I've had a couple good looks at the system running, I didn't get the chance afforded to some to examine the card up close and personal for a couple of weeks prior to todays news.

As to the SX-8 and Genlock -- my understanding is that without the VTPro card and SX-84, you need the optional genlock card for this to work. I hope I've not misunderstood your remark.

Genlock is included now on the VTPro card. It is available through the cables just like before. Black cable is Genlock in on the HD15 to BNC cable. You do not have to have the SX84 to utilize the Genlock built on the VTPro card.

Andrew stated that a regular old SX8 will allow Preview out of it IF you have a VTPro card. That is an awesome thing too.

SBowie
10-06-2004, 07:45 PM
Andrew stated that a regular old SX8 will allow Preview out of it IF you have a VTPro card. That is an awesome thing too.That is indeed very cool.

ScorpioProd
10-06-2004, 08:46 PM
I've been waiting for clarification on that, and may have been wrong about it. If so, I apologize. Although I've had a couple good looks at the system running, I didn't get the chance afforded to some to examine the card up close and personal for a couple of weeks prior to todays news.

Allow me to clarify, Steve.

The new VT[4] card is a 32-bit/66MHz card. To get all the power of it on a P4DC6+ motherboard like mine, for instance, I would put it in a 64-bit/66MHz slot. And no, this will NOT cause any 64-bit/66MHz devices on the same bus, like my Adaptec SCSI chip, to fall back to 32-bits.

But, if you only have a 32-bit/33MHz slot, VT[4]'s hardware is backward compatible with that, with the loss of the new high bandwidth feature of the preview output, of course, as you would expect.

So, a 32-bit/66MHz card gives new users more power if they have the right bus, and protects legacy hosts as well.

BTW, some PCs out there do have 32-bit/66MHz buses, but I don't remember which, it might be some of the AMD ones...

nelsonm
10-06-2004, 11:42 PM
Hi all,

Ok....

For me, I think there is a good enough reason for shelling out $1000 for the new software upgrade. Integrated CG, background render, LW8 and so on... although i still would like to see a 3D DVE engine that functions more like BorisFX and a better paint program that functions and feels more like photoshop w/video support. :rolleyes:

I'm just not convinced enough to buy the Pro board unless...
- there is some major feature of VT4 feature that won't function without it :eek:
- or enough of a performance boost :o
- or a clear path to HD. :D

I do mostly post production and a little live production with in-the-field post at times of corporate stuff and some consumer stuff as well. :)

BTW - considering what my friend pays for just support and upgrades for his avid and Fast 601... Newtek's systems and upgrades are a steal! :cool:

kleima
10-06-2004, 11:51 PM
It is not my understanding that the new card is 64 bit, just 66 mhz, Steve.

It can output Quicktime. Can it play Quicktime?

David
10-07-2004, 12:17 AM
Can it play Quicktime without the breakup in audio like the old VT hardware?

sbrandt
10-07-2004, 04:05 AM
Since there seems to be more than
one authorized dealer in this thread,
I like to ask again:

Will VT[3] continue to be available for
those of us who had perfectly useful
stable VT[2]s and couldn't justify
going to [3] and won't be able to
afford [4] just yet?

There are a number of us in here.
About 7 who actively post. And
no doubt many more who just lurk.

Jean
10-07-2004, 04:31 AM
NewTek Introduces VT[4] LIVE!

Well, what about the VT[4] POST ?

when does it come out ? what are his specific upgrade price from VT3 and specific new features ?

Or, is it...just it :confused:

SBowie
10-07-2004, 05:40 AM
The new VT[4] card is a 32-bit/66MHz card.Thanks very much Eugene - I evidently formed the wrong impression on this point at the NAB dealer event, and have had it ever since. I really hate being in error like that, and apologize for confusing that bit of this thread.

SBowie
10-07-2004, 05:43 AM
Will VT[3] continue to be available ...Not definitive, but ... while I'm still waiting for the new price list from NewTek's sole authorized distributor in Canada (hopefully today) I note that it is no longer listed as an item on the US price list.

jcupp
10-07-2004, 07:51 AM
It can output Quicktime. Can it play Quicktime?

Not yet, rumor has it that it's coming soon.

3DBob
10-07-2004, 08:24 AM
Living in the UK it is so frustrating that $995 upgrade from VT[3] to [4] will probably be 995 + VAT despite an exchange rate of 1.8 - and that does't include new hardware. Also the new hardware isn't HD AFAIK! Will this happen again when the VT goes HD?

There is also no upgrade from post to live - continually very frustrating. And as I have a licence of LW[8] and another LW[7.5c] in addition to the VT3 LW[7.5c] I have basically not much to gain for the money. (I mostly want the extra audio functionality - but that would be crippled by having an old card)

Now I have to reconcile this upgrade cost with the fact that I can get a Matrox RT.X100 Xtreme Pro Collection with RT.X100 Xtreme hardware, Matrox X.tools software, and the complete Adobe Video Collection Standard - Adobe Premiere Pro (truely realtime DV), Adobe Encore DVD, Adobe Audition, and Adobe After Effects. And the card can encode/decode in hardware MPEG2! and with the RTV plugin for AE which I have - I can edit RTVs on another workstation.

ALL THIS FOR JUST 855.00 +VAT! ---- AND ---- I get to keep my old VT3!! no trade in required!

Please tell me what the logic would be for me given facts like these - If I can't reasonably upgrade to a Live! switching set-up based on the VT[4]pro card then I'm stuck in post and for the money I'd rather have a VT[3] & the matrox!

My 2c is that I'd be happy to pay this listed upgrade price of $995 if I got the software and a VT[4] pro card - or $3/400 for the software only upgrade.

I've been with newtek in the UK since Amiga Toaster and Lightwave 3.5 - but even a die hard like me is forced to have doubts when faced with choices like these. Come on NT basic market research.

Grrrr :confused:

3DBob

Demon8
10-07-2004, 10:06 AM
The Price will be $3995.oo for the VT4. Is what I heard.

SBowie
10-07-2004, 10:17 AM
The Price will be $3995.oo for the VT4. Is what I heard.
The query was regarding VT[3], though -- if we're discussing the same post. I took it as a continuation of the question yesterday as to whether the VT[3] upgrade will still be available after this VT[4] release ... to which I have replied 'it does not appear in the current price list.'

sbrandt
10-07-2004, 10:21 AM
Nope,
I think it was JEAN's post that asked about price.

fda
10-07-2004, 10:25 AM
Yep, I made the same point in another thread, I have the old matrox RT2000 so I can buy the MATROX RT.X100 Xtreme PRO for only $599!
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=28976&page=2&pp=15&highlight=matrox


Living in the UK it is so frustrating that $995 upgrade from VT[3] to [4] will probably be 995 + VAT despite an exchange rate of 1.8 - and that does't include new hardware. Also the new hardware isn't HD AFAIK! Will this happen again when the VT goes HD?

There is also no upgrade from post to live - continually very frustrating. And as I have a licence of LW[8] and another LW[7.5c] in addition to the VT3 LW[7.5c] I have basically not much to gain for the money. (I mostly want the extra audio functionality - but that would be crippled by having an old card)

Now I have to reconcile this upgrade cost with the fact that I can get a Matrox RT.X100 Xtreme Pro Collection with RT.X100 Xtreme hardware, Matrox X.tools software, and the complete Adobe Video Collection Standard - Adobe Premiere Pro (truely realtime DV), Adobe Encore DVD, Adobe Audition, and Adobe After Effects. And the card can encode/decode in hardware MPEG2! and with the RTV plugin for AE which I have - I can edit RTVs on another workstation.

ALL THIS FOR JUST 855.00 +VAT! ---- AND ---- I get to keep my old VT3!! no trade in required!

Please tell me what the logic would be for me given facts like these - If I can't reasonably upgrade to a Live! switching set-up based on the VT[4]pro card then I'm stuck in post and for the money I'd rather have a VT[3] & the matrox!

My 2c is that I'd be happy to pay this listed upgrade price of $995 if I got the software and a VT[4] pro card - or $3/400 for the software only upgrade.

I've been with newtek in the UK since Amiga Toaster and Lightwave 3.5 - but even a die hard like me is forced to have doubts when faced with choices like these. Come on NT basic market research.

Grrrr :confused:

3DBob

Jean
10-07-2004, 10:49 AM
Actually I asked about VT4 post! ...for post production only users.

does this even exist?

is VT4 post! the VT4 live without the hardware ?

I believe there is two separate version because at the end of this page

http://www.newtek.com/news/releases/10-06-04a.html

you can read

"VT[4], VT[4] LIVE!, VT[4] Live, VT[4] POST!, (...) are trademarks of NewTek, Inc.

Maybe I m the only one here to not understand if :

- there will be a special tiny low cost version of the breakout box for post prod use. (I heard 2 years ago it was planned).

- The price of the "VT4 post! upgrade from VT3" will be different than the "VT4 LIVE! upgrade from VT3"

- there will be new features, or fixed bugs, more "post-prod / TED" oriented, and less LIVE new features we don't need in the VT4 post ?

I have to tell, 995$ for this upgrade made me cough out my coffe. Plz, tell me there is a POST version upgrade for 400$-500$ without the hardware and all the new live thingies will be replaced by new post-prod thingies :D

sbrandt
10-07-2004, 11:03 AM
NICE CATCH JEAN!

Man, you should be a lawyer.
You caught the ONE word on the page
that will probably make or break a lot of us!

Thanks Hawkeye!
Hope you're right.

ScorpioProd
10-07-2004, 05:58 PM
I like Jean's idea... But I wouldn't be too confident of that happening... Remember, VT[3]LIVE and VT[3]POST were just different packaging of the same product, with or without the SX-8 for instance, NOTHING different in software.