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View Full Version : BIG NEWS !!!!! Tasa does it again !!!



Jim Capillo
09-22-2004, 04:51 AM
For all that wanted LW integration on the VT timeline, you'd better check THIS out !!!!! :cool: :)

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=109580464889289&forumid=123

Bobt
09-22-2004, 06:42 AM
Thanks Jim,
Seems word has gone around while I slept a bit.
THIS FOLKS IS AWESOME. Its hard to describe.

No more problems with Alpha channel layers.

No more problems with multiple input DVE's

No more issues with limited DVE's
The best extention of the T3 timeline ever.

Completely adjustable DVE's,
in fact how much more adjustable can you get.

From an editors point of view you dont need to know
anything from lightwave.
From a guy who does LW you can make scenes for guys like me.

Shoot me question I will do my best to answer.
When? about 1 to 2 weeks. Got to make a web page,
directions, installation programs and I coule use some help
to get the 100 LW scenes I want to provide together.
But in short this makes VT one of the coolest editors on the
PLANET!!!

Bob

Paul Lara
09-22-2004, 07:08 AM
This is very exciting, Bob!
The best of VT[3] all brought together!!

Jim Capillo
09-22-2004, 08:28 AM
I'm no LW expert, but I'll be glad to help out where I can....... :)

videoguy
09-22-2004, 08:51 AM
it looks like bob really out did himself here. i think this could be a real revolution

Jim Capillo
09-22-2004, 12:00 PM
i think this could be a real revolution

Or an evolution of the revolution ! ;)

Rich Deustachio
09-22-2004, 01:13 PM
So what the heck is NewTek waiting for.....hire the guy already!!

ScorpioProd
09-22-2004, 02:06 PM
Heaven forbid!

Bob's power is in being an INDEPENDANT third-party developer!

Not working for THE MAN is what gives him the power to be creative and develop what we all NEED!

Don't wish his loss upon us!

wilebill
09-22-2004, 02:33 PM
Oh, man, I think this will make all my editing dreams come true! I can't wait till it's available.

sbrandt
09-22-2004, 03:12 PM
Well, I guess they don't have to hire him, but
they should at least do something for him.
Maybe they can give him that little helicopter.

One question:
Will this work with VT[2]?
(hmm...guess not.)

videoguy
09-22-2004, 06:22 PM
bob is nothing short of a visionary i look forward to anythign he comes up with

Bobt
09-23-2004, 02:55 PM
More LWConnector information.

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=123

Check out the last thread. Robert placed a small render of a scene.
AWESOME..
:D :D
Bob

Scott Bates
09-23-2004, 03:53 PM
... and he's now posted DVEconnect4.avi which is even cooler than sample #3 :D

videoguy
09-23-2004, 09:14 PM
I think Newtek needs to pay Bob $100,000 a year to sit around & write plugins for the vt 8 hours a day

Bobt
09-23-2004, 09:38 PM
I second that motion.

Bob

sbrandt
09-24-2004, 02:32 AM
He should get the little helicopter too!















---------------------------
...And a week in Rio with Kiki.

pnelson
09-25-2004, 08:38 PM
Bob,

As usual, you never stop amazing us!! Great work!

Philip

ted
09-28-2004, 01:02 PM
Bob, while I haven't read all the details of what you are doing, (I'm spending much of my time out of town till November), I'm always impressed by your speed of development and grateful for your products!!! :)

Bobt
09-29-2004, 05:51 AM
Ted too bad you are gone so long. This plugin is pretty darn cool.
Its really great to see what it does. Check out the creative
cow if you have not already. We have about 4 demo clips up
there. Tieing LW to the VT3 timeline is just WILD and through some
creative thought a new and yet secret combo makes it even wilder yet.
LW opens up doors we all could ONLY dream of.

Then there is a possabilty I can tie DFX together this way.
Dont know yet if thats possible I have someone checking
on this. Its EYE candy heaven to have the timeline tied together!

Bob

Rich Deustachio
09-29-2004, 10:42 AM
Bob is the plug in limited to assignng the video to a cube or can it be applied to any LW object?

Bobt
09-29-2004, 11:06 AM
Rich, somewhere on the Creative cow is the description on how it works and
NO its not limited. Not in the the least. In fact some stuff I have seen done
already but cant mention is very very cool.
Make sure you are set to see posts for the last week.

Look for a post titled Sample Clips

Look for a post titled Starter Kit.

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=109631988175351&forumid=123

That should answer more of your questions.
PLEASE!! Post thoughts questions etc there so we can
try and answer them. Honestly this is very exciting for
T3 and LW as well. Combining them is very cool.

Bob

Rich Deustachio
09-29-2004, 01:00 PM
Thanks Bob, so this will allow us to do "Hollywood FX" type effects from the timeline. I can see aftermarket companies like Toasterdudes making premade LW scenes we can use with this plug-in. It opens up lots of possibilities.

UnCommonGrafx
09-29-2004, 01:15 PM
Exactly.

And for the Digital Arsenal stuff, all of it can be used in this fashion as long as the naming conventions are followed which are outlined over at the COW, http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=123.

As a matter of fact, even those old HollyWoodFX scenes would work.

So far, I haven't hit anything that can't be done with this setup. That is to say, what I can do in LW, I can apply video clips to surfaces and go.

JReble
09-30-2004, 01:17 PM
Is there any word on when this would be available? With a new version on the horizon, I'm hesitant to get excited in the event this turns out to be another dangling carrot. Sounds good though. I just wish something like this shipped with the Toaster from the get go. I know software products take a while to develop, but platforms change, and get out of date pretty darn fast in comparison.

UnCommonGrafx
09-30-2004, 01:42 PM
Banging it out soon is the goal.
A sniggle of a problem was found and is being fixed. Outside of that, Bob and I needed to take a nap. ;)

And as to wishes...

Bobt
09-30-2004, 02:22 PM
We are speaking 5 to 10 days here unless something
appears to be broken out of the blue. I am trying to add a couple
of nice to have features at the moment that do not stop it
from working.
The thing has been working pretty well and there are
several animators trying to help me out to get the 100 initial scenes.

Bob

Scott Bates
10-01-2004, 12:49 PM
You folks 'gotta see Robert's latest sample from Bob's upcoming magic plugin - WOW!!! :eek:

Forwarded from Robert's Creative Cow forum:
( http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=123#673240 )

**************************
MorphMixer use - Fold and unfold a video plane
Particles in a few forms.
Cubes make sense: 6 sides of video. Plus, clear images and great
bounces.
http://uncommongrafx.com/examples/Assortment002.avi

Robert Wilson
UnCommon Grafx
**************************

videoconcepts
10-01-2004, 02:20 PM
Hey BOB I read that this new plug in you have does not work like an A/B dve like boris and hollywood. is there a way to fake it or does you plugin make you a finished DVE. that you can just put in the time line like the others?

Bobt
10-01-2004, 02:55 PM
>Hey BOB I read that this new plug in you have does not work like an A/B dve like >boris and hollywood. is there a way to fake it or does you plugin make you a >finished DVE. that you can just put in the time line like the others?
I am not sure what you mean but in general it works better than an AB dve.
You control the edits/clips from the timeline.
But the difference is you can get multiple video layers from the timeline
to the effect. Not just 2. Can you get just 2?
YES.
There will be several 2 track effects. But the really cool and wild
effects are ones that take in 3 to 7 video tracks.
This plugin using LW makes hollywood and boris look like a whimpy
wanna be's.

Bob

UnCommonGrafx
10-01-2004, 03:22 PM
Yeah, A/B was the initial purpose. Until I threw a fit. ;) Those were tense days. chuckle....

I'm learning to moderate my statements.... so, I'll just say now, it's unlimited to your machines capability.

A/B of ANY kind will be MORE than possible. For that matter, you could start making your own, right now, in anticipation. You can make ... hmm, I'll make it for the series...

UnCommonGrafx
10-01-2004, 04:16 PM
I'm gonna double post this here and as a new thread...

Cubes just make sense. Six sides. And background plate(s). 7 Layers on the timeline are NEEDED to fill all the images. Obviously, you can go in and put in layers you want to remain to speed up the process. But it's just as easy from the time line.
Go here for some test scenes and other samples:
http://www.creativecow.net/forum/read_post.php?postid=109663832891404&forumid=123

To see just what the heck I'm tahkin' bout, view this:
http://uncommongrafx.com/examples/Cubeage.avi

Fun Schtuff!

ScorpioProd
10-01-2004, 04:40 PM
Cool stuff. :)

And I realize "flash" and "eye candy" sells products, but let's not forget most of us have an A-clip and a B-clip most of the time... And that's it. This was one of the negatives I had heard about 3D Arsenal, not enough stuff when using "few" layers...

UnCommonGrafx
10-01-2004, 05:41 PM
Eugene,
Those are what I started with; plane left, revealing plane below. Plane up, left, right down. Both to the left as in a slide. To the right.

Yeah, boring but exactly what you want sometimes. (For me in this instance, ;})
Add a displacement to the left or right to have it 'rumple' out... Oh, sorry... yes, plain and simple.

:rolleyes: :cool:

Rich Deustachio
10-01-2004, 06:48 PM
You can always apply the same source to different panels.

videoconcepts
10-01-2004, 06:56 PM
My other Question was , will this let you create a Real vt3 dve. with icon.
maybe please.....

ScorpioProd
10-01-2004, 07:15 PM
Cool Robert, just wanted to be sure. :)

And no, it doesn't create a real-time DVE with icon that you reuse, it renders each time you use it, giving you many more possibilities than the limited Newtek DVE creation engine allows. Just the alpha channel being useable, for instance, is a HUGE benefit.

The Newtek DVE creation engine, though essential for live work, is rather limited for post work. Bob's creation removes these limits. Plus, you wouldn't want to wait for one of the Newtek DVEs to render really, really, really slowly when you create it.

UnCommonGrafx
10-01-2004, 08:09 PM
Depending on what you are doing, it takes 30 seconds to do 30 to 90 frames.

Think "Compositing App" not necessarily a 3D program.

Not a replacement; an adjunct to the dve engine, this plugin works through it.

Ya know... I've also been thinking: this plugin makes a great prototyper for the DVE Engine. But, of course, many of the things one can do with this, at the moment, far surpass the static model pre-made dve. Has anyone ever seen an HV-based DVE? I admit I may have missed such an offering.

Go to the cow to see some made in the same day. :cool:

Bobt
10-01-2004, 09:46 PM
Just to add to what Robert said. This plugin is a way to
solve the HD SD issue with T3.
These effects can be rendered to resolution whatever.

Just a thought.

Bob

ScorpioProd
10-01-2004, 10:44 PM
Hehehe... Yeah, if only it could also get the HD in and out of the VT[3]... :/

Addendum: Now that I think about it, I'm sure Bob could write drivers for the DeckLink HD cards to make that possible, if he wanted to... ;)

Bobt
10-02-2004, 11:31 AM
Check out the cow on this busy weekend and see a snipet from
one of Eric Pratts scenes. He is one of the animators
making some scenes for you and LWConnect!

http://www.creativecow.net/forum/view_posts.php?forumid=123

Thanks,
Bob

Rich Deustachio
10-03-2004, 12:06 AM
These are the kinds of transition scenes would be great as a premade set Eric. I hope yoou putting together lots of pre-made transitions scenes with themes. I don't care that it has to render evry time if we are getting this kind of stuff.

Bobt
10-03-2004, 09:11 AM
> hope yoou putting together lots
> of pre-made transitions scenes with themes.
The idea is to put together 100 premade scenes.
The other thing to remember is this is an OPEN format.
It doesnt not take 24 oe even 36 hours to render.
This just takes some LW knowledge and imagination to
create the initial scenes.
So even though 100 are here today I see a future with MANY
MANY more to come.

I even have a few ideas of add ons of my own. :D
Me and Robert Wilson have hooked up pretty well and
chated about another cottage industry being spawned
on this plugin. Another club toaster where everyone wins.

The things I have already seen done have truely made me fall
in love with my VT3 all over again.

Bob

videoguy
10-03-2004, 09:21 AM
Maybe we could get Faraz from vtknowledge.com to provide some space and bandwidth for like $5.00 monthly access?

Bobt
10-03-2004, 09:30 AM
>The things I have already seen done have truely made me fall
>in love with my VT3 all over again.

Let me add to this..
I know little about LW. Sounds strange, I know more about its structure from
a programing stand then how to use it (the programmers curse)
But I have been able to use LW with these scenes and want to learn
how to make it work for me even more. So I will know LW by the end
of this year. So for those with a toaster (sorry VT) that just want to edit
and NEVER learn LW this is not a problem and truely part of the design.
All I need to know is F9 to preview and F10 to make me a star.

Bob

UnCommonGrafx
10-03-2004, 02:27 PM
And how to press the "Save anim" button. ;)

Yes, in love with my vt... once again.

I'm really working hard not to gush as I think often that's a turnoff. But, this does fit right in with the paradigm of VT while adding value to the toolset already had within it.

And I've preached the value of learning lw for all VT owners. And Aura, as quirky as it appears at first glance.

Qexit
10-10-2004, 07:42 AM
Hi Bob and Robert,

Looks you have another great VT utility on your hands there with VTConnect. So keep up the good work :)

Just out of curiosity, I downloaded the VT Connect Kit to see what you were actually doing in the LW scenes...and there are a few LW objects missing, e.g. ground.lwo. So it might be worth just checking back through the set of scenes you have to make sure that the 30 objects included in the zip file are everything that is needed.

Also, Robert might want to go back and remove FPrime from the scenes and objects to avoid a lot loading errors occuring when people without FPrime try to load the scenes. I took at look at one or two of the raw scene files and saw FPrime 'reference code' in them all.

My only caveat with the utility is way it renders direct to anim files. I can understand why this is done...but as a long time LW user the though of rendering to anything other than image sequences sends a shiver down my spine. Not so much of a worry with scenes that render very quickly, but Robert has mentioned using HVs (Hypervoxels) and other more involved LW features which can take significant amounts of time to render. Just a passing observation :D

Ivan
10-10-2004, 08:09 AM
Since VT4 will Play TGA sequences directly...

Ivan

Bobt
10-10-2004, 09:34 AM
Hi Kevin,
Hows things. We understand this and would the best way.
Robert has mentioned this to me over and over again :D
(Trust me on that one)
For 30 to 60 or 120 frame things we have not had a hitch
so far using the ideas we have.

Bob

Qexit
10-10-2004, 09:44 AM
Hows things.
I'll drop you a note in the next couple of days to bring you up to date. Nothing exciting..but this is the wrong place for a detailed response :)


For 30 to 60 or 120 frame things we have not had a hitch
so far using the ideas we have.

For short pieces like that...not really a problem. It's when you talk about several hundred frames and/or a lot of hours that things get 'risky'. Just the other day, someone asked on the LW Mailing List if it was possible to recover the Quicktime file he had been rendering for four days when his system crashed. The answer was "Sorry, you have to start again and this time please render to an image sequence"

For the sort of things you are demoing, the direct to anim route should be alright (maybe with an image sequence option for extra safety for VT4 users)...but rendering direct to anims is a bad habit for LW users to fall into :) I suspect the users most at risk would be those running 'bare minimum' spec VT systems. Having VT Edit running at the same time as a Layout while rendering will take up quite a bit of RAM, so you might think of suggesting 1GB of RAM as a minimum requirement for safe use....more would be better of course.

UnCommonGrafx
10-10-2004, 10:10 AM
Hey Qexit,
As a longtime LW user, you better BELIEVE I've balked at this. But, also, as a longtime user, I have my little render garden I'm not giving up!!
To that end, there is still some playing about with a screamernet option straight from the timeline. But Bob has to sleep sometime. Believe me, I've tried to get that out of our way....

What is needed is a sentinel like we had with Adpro: a plug that will wait for files and compile into an rtv as they render. If the rtv screamernet saver worked as it should we would already be in screamernet land. But it really F(^(s up a render, splitting it left and right.

All of these scenes will work with screamernet as long as you are following sn rules...as long as they can find the stuff it will render.

I've also gotten one or two reports that the anim saver is mucked on some systems. So, there are an avalanche of things that could go awry for the new user. Hopefully, it'll be quiet enough to not start. ;)

UnCommonGrafx
10-10-2004, 10:13 AM
Oh, that's you, Kevin. hehe

I watched that guys comments and had a chuckle. And the same thought that's been shared here.... shiver....

Bobt
10-10-2004, 10:32 AM
I know all these and will look into doing something to address this.
In face I would rather replace the anim writter. I got a good
idea on how to address this.

Bob

bradl
10-10-2004, 07:31 PM
I know all these and will look into doing something to address this.
In face I would rather replace the anim writter. I got a good
idea on how to address this.

BobBob and Robert,

I just wanted to confirm that the RTV plugin is hosed and has been for years. It will only write an RTV up to a certain length then begin overwriting. I think it is about 120 frames or so. There has been several threads on the LW forums through the years about it. It really needs to be fixed for your plug-in as well as for everyday LW stuff. It is hard to believe Newtek has completed ignored this for so long...

Robert, you mentioned the Screamernet RTV writer may work better or differently, but how do you use it? The lw6_vt.p includes many different I/O plug-ins (it reports 12 Plug-ins loaded!) but once loaded you don't seem to have a choice in the Render Options.

Lastly, does the demo download of VTConnect include the beta Plug-in so we can test it or not? I didn't see it in there.

Bobt
10-10-2004, 07:36 PM
I can say we havent had any trouble with RTV so far.
(knock wood). Screamer Net with many nodes
would be a problem at this time.
We are looking at a way around that for you heavy hitter
LW guys.

bob

UnCommonGrafx
10-10-2004, 07:54 PM
Hey Brad,
You don't have the right one, then. It should come up with three choices: Alpha, no alpha and superblack.

I seem to have one of the better ones as it works for me... sometimes. I haven't sat to play with it in a long time but have been beating up on it as of late.

The version I have does animation rendering rather well, well past 300 frames. Screamernet functionality is hosed, though. Maybe it's my settings as I've had it working in the past. And when I say working, I mean with two processors running at once on one machine. I could never catch what the error was on the nodes and no one at NewTek would ever come out in public to discuss the issue.
There are two things I'd like NewTek to get done right now. (Three would be get paid to be a consultant! :cool: ) One would be to fix the rtv writer in lw. This is going to become a nightmare when this puppy hits the ground... And some work on the dve engine. Or at least someone to take a peek at what can be done with it to work at modern, "real-time" speeds.

I am also hoping LW is going to undergo the much needed changes of speedups that were rumored about. I know that WE will BENEFIT GREATLY!!

It's kind of weird: this lil'ole plugin puts a whole bunch'o power at your disposal with the same ole set of tools you've had all along. :p

UnCommonGrafx
10-10-2004, 07:55 PM
And Bob hasn't let me twist his arm on my idea around the problem... but...

Resistance is futile. :D

SBowie
11-02-2004, 10:08 AM
Re: LW Connect, I just want to mention that I always try to provide special pricing on things of this sort for registered ToyBox users, and am doing so again this time. If you qualify, drop me a line offlist for details.

(If you don't yet have either the Aura or Mirage version of the ToyBox (http://www.vtworx.com/toybox) I'm also doing bundles which include *both* LW_Connect and the ToyBox. Ask nice and I might even offer bundle pricing on a LW_Connect/ToyBox/Mirage bundle!)

--
Regards, Steve

LIGHTWORX , Toronto
NewTek VT[3] & LightWave 3D, and now - Bauhaus Mirage!
[email protected] http://www.vtworx.com (416)633-0191

Eric Pratt
11-04-2004, 07:37 AM
I've made some extra content for LWConnect. The content and LWConnect are ready to download from our online store, if you're like me, and you can't wait for a disk, just drop on by the store and pick it up: http://store.virtualsetworks.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=23

Ivan
11-04-2004, 09:27 AM
Eric,

Nice work with the LWConnect scenes. How many are included in the expansion set?

Thanks,

Ivan

Eric Pratt
11-04-2004, 09:30 AM
5, but I'm hoping to add more soon. I've just been pretty heavily tasked with getting Virtual Set Pack Vol4 out the door and fullfilling orders, etc.

bradl
11-04-2004, 09:49 AM
Eric,

Your stuff always looks real pro, but I thought the LWConnect was to ship with 100 scences, some yours, some others. Now we need to pay almost the price of plug-in again just to get 5 scenes?

Eric Pratt
11-04-2004, 10:01 AM
Ha ha, no. I've got two products in the store, LWConnect, and LWConnect plus 5 more scenes, the difference between the two is $10, so I'm only asking list for the LWConnect plus 5 scenes, not $200 for 5 scenes. Sorry for the confusion, it just a value added kind of thing, not a whole product by itself, yet.

bradl
11-06-2004, 11:22 PM
Eric that is great news! Sorry for the confusion on my part as well.

Will you be selling your scenes (and more, I'm sure) as a supplement later?

Oh, I just noticed the "yet" above, so I guess that answers that question.

Thanks,

Bobt
11-07-2004, 08:52 AM
You are the second person to say I like Erics stuff but 200 for
a couple of transitions is WAY too much.
I hope Eric takes a look at the words to make it more plain you
are getting everything!

Also Eric people that have already bought have been asking about
a complete Trinity FX package and a price for those 5 xtra scenes.

Bob

UnCommonGrafx
11-15-2004, 08:02 PM
Kevin,
Did you get LWC, yet?

I'm in need of an answer from someone in PAL land. I think I know the answer but I need it to be a bit more definitive.

If one has an ntsc LW scene, will throwing the switch to PAL be enough to make it look right?

I think the answer is no but... no PAL equipment makes it quite the challenge. ;)

Eric Pratt
11-15-2004, 10:11 PM
I think it's yes, the change in the verticle resolution is accomodated by the change in the aspect ratio. Making a change to LWC so that PAL/NTSC could be set there instead of two sets of content would be great. I have two LWC PAL customers if you would like to get in touch with them Robert.

UnCommonGrafx
11-15-2004, 10:28 PM
For the moment this is quicker...
Send them my way, PLEASE! :p

Qexit
11-16-2004, 05:14 AM
Kevin,
Did you get LWC, yet?

I'm in need of an answer from someone in PAL land. I think I know the answer but I need it to be a bit more definitive.

If one has an ntsc LW scene, will throwing the switch to PAL be enough to make it look right?

I think the answer is no but... no PAL equipment makes it quite the challenge. ;)
Hi Robert,

Sorry, I do not have LWC but to answer your question throwing the switch to PAL would sort the resolution but you would also need to reset the FPS to 25 otherwise you won't get a match to your video duration. NTSC = 30 fps, PAL = 25fps. LW doesn't automatically change ther frame rate when you switch the preset frame resolutions.

Cheers

Bobt
12-01-2004, 06:18 AM
All Done :D
For you PAL users.

Bob

nevmoor
12-02-2004, 11:49 AM
I was just looking at the Chyron homepage http://www.chyron.com/[/URL] and saw some of their CG animations.
I know LWC allows for some of this stuff.Could anyone do any LW scenes that would emulate the motion graphic they have up today??

Jim Capillo
12-02-2004, 11:59 AM
I was just looking at the Chyron homepage http://www.chyron.com/[/URL] and saw some of their CG animations.
I know LWC allows for some of this stuff.Could anyone do any LW scenes that would emulate the motion graphic they have up today??

Yeah, cool stuff....... should be easy to do.

Robert, Robert....... :p

UnCommonGrafx
12-02-2004, 12:16 PM
Ya, I'm here...
Actually, curious as to the page you were speaking of because the url shared is a bit wonky.

I did see the page. Grinning from ear to ear as I looked at their front page. Lots of stuff to be inspired from.

Pick out a few and I'll see what I can do. Most of it is pretty easy. And those scenes could be made available as soon as next week.

bradl
12-04-2004, 10:30 PM
Inspiration and emulation is great, but I think the main point is missing, Chyron does those cool 3D looking effects in real-time and it has to- it is a live sporting event. Don't think you will see that, er... ever, in VT live... I suppose you could post an event but who would go through all that expense, time and money for an old game?

UnCommonGrafx
12-04-2004, 10:41 PM
Brad!
Thanks for the challenge! None of that stuff is 'Live"; it's all 'quickly edited' to make it happen.

I say that LWC and VTEdit/LightWave can meet the challenge. Their stuff has to render, too. Lightwave is the 'impediment' now.

For my purposes, I am DEPENDING on the lw dev to make things like I NEED them to be for us all to experience the nirvana of an integrated system.

I really want to challenge your notion. But I need help.

nevmoor
12-05-2004, 07:01 PM
I didnt mean that I wanted it "realtime" but I see the point.
If you have a VT running TEd available to do the CG pages and LWC ,why couldnt you get those type of graphics up, especially if you have time to Premake your scenes and CG pages???