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Jay Kelley
04-04-2003, 08:10 AM
I purchased a Toaster about one month ago. I also purchased the SDI option as well. So far I am loving the toaster BUT the SDI board seems to be a little behind the times and may cost me a lot of money.

The problem is a simple one: The SDI option board on the toaster has an input for video and a separate input for audio. This is cool EXCEPT that most of the decks and cameras that are using SDI multiplex the video and audio on the SAME signal...

There is no connection for that on Newtek's SDI board.

Oops..

So I called Newtek Tech Support and told him the problem. His words: "uh yeah, you gotta go to radio shack and get a splitter."

"A splitter?" I said.

"Yeah a splitter".

I had the sneaking suspision this guy did not know his bottom from a hole in the ground but since I was as unsure as I suspected he was, I said thanks and hung up. (This was the first time I had ever called Newtek tech support with such poor results, after some research I now believe the kid had NO IDEA of what he was saying).

For those of you that need to know: I am told you have to have something called a De-Embedder. This will split the signal so Newtek's option board can take both audio and video into each of their connections. At this time I have a quote for one and it costs more than the Toaster did. (About $2,600.)

If this is the case then I think the toaster's SDI board is not such a good deal after all... Can I still return it?

One glimmer of hope: I noticed there is another connection on Newtek's SDI board that's called "RESERVED".. Any hope this could be for a dual audio/video signal? I sure hope so.

Feedback and advice would be wonderful.

Jay Kelley

creach
04-04-2003, 08:19 AM
Wow.

That worries me. We bought T[2] about two months ago (with SDI at our engineer's request) and haven't used it yet. I hope the "RESERVED" is our (yours and our) salvation.

Dan

ted
04-04-2003, 10:01 AM
I knew this going in and I'm still glad I got it. I love having the ability to go back and forth between my edit systems without loss.

While I agree the SDI card should have the Audio, I'm still glad I got one now.

I "gently" suggest that you research anything before buying it.

Jay Kelley
04-04-2003, 10:05 AM
Your letter will be give all the consideration it deserves.

Jay

johnnylandrover
04-04-2003, 10:57 AM
Most Decks (sony,Panasonic, JVC, ect) with SDI send Video SDI and use AES/Ebu for audio. Use SDi for video only and xlr's for audio until Newtek figures it out. If you can hear the difference between Sdi audio vs analog your lying. You can see it on a scope but can not hear the difference. As video goes, you can see it with your eyes. Iv'e asked this ? many times and never really got a good answer, so I talked to some Sony techs and that was there answer.

Johnny

Jay Kelley
04-04-2003, 12:14 PM
Thanks that was a helpful letter.

I have a question:

Suppose I have a system that only sends out a multiplexed signal. Can I still send that into the video in on the newtek SDI card? Will it find the video signal and leave the audio signal alone? I can then use the XLR audio cable from the camera as you suggest.

Reason I ask is that the new Panasonic camera is doing this.

Thanks

Jay

johnnylandrover
04-04-2003, 12:39 PM
In theory I would think since newtek can only accept video at this time it will ignore your audio signal till newtek turns it on. What type of camera/deck (model#) is the signal coming from? I use Sony decks & Sony has a feature called QSDI that only works with other Sony gear and will not work with T2, but it also has SDI that's works with other products outside Sony. Does Panasonic now have an internal SDI for there products like QSDI?

Johnny

Jay Kelley
04-04-2003, 01:03 PM
Actually it's a new camera due out in June of this year.
the AJ-SDX900

http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat/Products/cams_ccorders/f_AJ-SDX900.html

Feel free to take a look. The SDI option is something I am considering

Jay

johnnylandrover
04-04-2003, 03:32 PM
Very nice rig. Are you saying this camera has SDI out and your going too use your camera as a player?

Jay Kelley
04-04-2003, 03:38 PM
Actually I plan to use the Toaster as a portable studio. Since any compression is done on the tape and not on the camera, I plan to record both on camera AND directly into the toaster from the SDI port uncompressed.

This will save a lot of hours in offline editing AND provide the best possible footage.

the SDI option is very important as there is no interference problems and I can go 100 meters away from the camera without worriing. (The toaster computer is very loud)

However if I cannot use it then this whole idea is gone

Jay

rbartlett
04-09-2003, 03:40 AM
When SDI questions come up regarding audio, they usually start, "I am trying to acquire my footage but only the video is coming through, no sounds, what gives?" - so I think that the video mux is the only one that is captured and the rest are ignored.

You need to be sure the camera supports SD 8-bit SDI SMPTE-259M aswell as any funky new HD 10-bit x:y:z support it might also have.

These are important pre-sales checks for you.
A Mackie for sound level (limiting/companding/matching etc) control might also be a good investment for the AES-EBU XLR audio run.

Jay Kelley
04-09-2003, 12:52 PM
Fair enough... Then perhaps I could just run the SDI into the video SDI in on the toaster. Question: If I run through the audio into XLR will the SDI video be in sync with the XLR audio?

If so then I might be back in business.

Please answer this if you know.

Jay

I am grateful for so much help

slacker
04-09-2003, 01:13 PM
We run SDI in from our control room and XLR in from our audio room quite regularly with no sync problems whatsoever.

Regards,

Joel Slack
Media Department, New Life Christian Fellowship

Jay Kelley
04-09-2003, 02:51 PM
So just take SDI video out of the camera, and XLR audio out of the camera. Run the SDI video into the SDI Video Card of the toaster, and the XLR audio into the the XLR input of the toaster and save them as one file..

This will work!!!

It will, won't it ?

Jay

nikolai
04-11-2003, 01:17 PM
I bought a sdi-board for capturing and prinitng to tape using a digital vtr and t2.
I am trying to use xlr digital out (AES/Ebu ) from vtr to connect it with the bnc digital in to sdi by using a selfmade cable (connected xlr 1 and 3 to the outer and xlr 2 to the inner lead of the bnc) but I get no sound captured nore printed. What am I doing wrong?

thanks for reply

johnnylandrover
04-11-2003, 01:25 PM
T2's SDI does not support digital audio at this time.

nikolai
04-11-2003, 01:34 PM
that explains a lot. But just for better understanding: why do they place bnc-plugs for digital audio in-out on the sdi-board if there is no use for it??
And how can I capture and print audio without BOB?
thanks

johnnylandrover
04-11-2003, 02:22 PM
Use SDI for video only and Analog cables for audio. Wthout the bob, audio I/O is 1/8" plugs that have to be custom made (XLR to 1/8" I/O cables). I purchased toaster Nt 1.0 in 1999 and had custom cables made to get audio I/O and they were not cheap if you get them made right. I have a bob now and have no use for those cables, o if you would like to purchase them you can email me at [email protected] I have to see what I paid for them before I can give you any prices.

Johnny

Blaine Holm
04-11-2003, 05:50 PM
I have a TV station looking at T2 for an on-line still store, and require seperate SDI and audio.

So, for them it's perfect.

nikolai
04-14-2003, 12:53 PM
but can I capture them in one file (embedded audio for example) or do I have to sincronize them in timeline ?
another question: will vt3 handle digital audio??
does anyone know something about this topic?
nikolai

Jay Kelley
04-18-2003, 05:44 PM
It's called the Miranda ADX-172p/75. It's a small device that will do exactly what we have spoken about on this thread.

Take a multiplexed SDI in and send SDI audio out (It even reclocks it so that it matches.

The website link is:

www.miranda.com

I am not sure of cost but I think it's just under $1,000.00.
(You will need the device and the power supply for it).

Ok, Newtek here's the solution to your design problem for your customers. (You can thank me later) I suggest you call this company, get one for testing and if it works then get a deal on them so you can offer them to your customers.

To everyone else, thank you so much for all the help.

Jay Kelley

Jay Kelley
04-18-2003, 05:53 PM
Johnny..

Did I understand you correctly?

Did you say that I cannot input audio into the SDI audio in of the card?

I sure hope I misunderstood. I doubt it since this is on the Newtek website:

The optional $995 Serial Digital PCI card allows capture and output of a single stream of SMPTE 259M Serial Digital Video and a stereo pair of AES/EBU Serial Digital Audio. The SDI card can be assigned as a Switcher input, and works in concert with the SX-8 Switcher Expansion unit.

According to this the audio works just fine... So what am I missing?

Jay

johnnylandrover
04-18-2003, 11:15 PM
Jay,

I was just told a month ago in person by Paul Lara, that you CAN NOT input digital audio by the way of SDI, at this time. Where did you read this exactly because when it is available I will purchase an SDI I/O board.

Johnny

Paul Lara
04-19-2003, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by nikolai
will vt3 handle digital audio??


Nikolai,
SDI audio works with Speed Razor, but not with the switcher under VT[2], but we are working to remedy this in VT[3].

nikolai
04-22-2003, 04:28 AM
Thank you all for tips and hints and sure vt2 rocks anyway but even if this is not a educational thread, can anyone answer this stupid question: is as/ebu the signal, sdi works with??
because somebody told me as/ebu and digital audio is a complete different signal like component and composite.
Is that true or false??
( I always thought it's the same thing but since I get no audio captured via as/ebu xlr-out sdi-in with SpeedRazor I doubt)

thanks
Nikolai