PDA

View Full Version : How 2



Terrence
09-06-2004, 10:09 AM
Can you Program a Show with 2 Languages and the typing on screen when selected by the viewer?

I have a New TV show i do with the VT# i would like it to be in english fist but have a spanish option also. Same thing with the typing for def people.

Jim Capillo
09-06-2004, 11:14 AM
VT will not do closed captioning. That requires an external program or outsourcing to a CC facility. However, if you know the script (or the show isn't live) you can caption the show in post in the lower thirds. For the deaf folks, there is always the possibility of using a signer in a squeeze.

bradl
09-06-2004, 11:41 AM
The official word on Closed Captioning (CC) within VT3 is NO. It does not pass line 21 which is where the CC data is placed.

However projects for DVD or the Web can be encoded with CC in other methods. Do a google search or see this site: http://www.cpcweb.com/

I don't know the answer for the Secondary Audio question.

wvp
09-06-2004, 12:44 PM
You have not defined what you final source is going to be.
If you are going to make this onto DVD, then with some 3rd party help you can create subtitles that are in English & other. Same for audio - you can create a alternate audio track.
If you are atempting to put something on the air (TV), closed captioning is possible (as allready mentioned) in a post production 3rd party setting. Alternate audio is not in the sense that TV does not provide for a listener to select another audio track or channel.

ScorpioProd
09-07-2004, 12:25 AM
Actually, AFAIK, all PBS stations and some regular stations do supply SAP (Second Audio Program). Typically a Spanish translation.

Terrence
09-07-2004, 10:50 AM
Yea thats what i am talking about SAP.


We have several ways of presenting the media, First the front page of the website so Streaming www.976-TUNA.com. Now i don't Think its poasable to do any of the things i asked with out cutting muitiple shows.

Two and Formost TV, this is where i would like to have the typ for the def and SAP for our spanish audience in California.

And Last but not Least DVD. This can just be the regular show. No worries.

Thanks for all your help guys. I love this system and this comunity.

bradl
10-16-2004, 12:17 AM
I wanted to follow up with a comment about Closed Captioning (CC). We put CC on all our broadcast masters (either 3 1/2 hours or 7 hours of programming weekly) plus all our masters for home distribution on VHS or DVD. Typically when I edit a new spot, I lay it off to Digibeta, BetaSP and D-9. The BetaSP goes to our CC suite for CC encoding (analog equipment only). So to keep our Digibeta quality, we actually Pre-read back to the master on Digibeta while adding line 21 from the analog CC encoded tape via our production switcher's DSK (masking everything except line 21). Sounds complicated, and I guess in some ways it is, but it works for us, keeps the quality high and is all done 'in house'.

I noticed that when I capture footage with VT3 that I could still see the CC data in underscan on line 21 even after it becomes an RTV and is playing on the VT timeline. So I checked and sure enough it plays back with CC fine on a TV sets. So VT actually digitizes more than 486 lines apparently (in NTSC). It may be a fluke, and not official, but it works. So I have recently figured a way to put this to use in our workflow. First a word about the extra or bonus lines. If you turn on Overlay they are lost. If you adjust crop they are lost, even if you uncrop back out to all 0's. But if you drop the clip on the timeline and don't mess with anything, like Crop or Overlay, you can utilize the extra lines for playing back CC.

Now for how I 'add' CC to a VT3 edited spot right on the Timeline and output it to Digibeta or BetaSP ready for broadcast. I finalize my editing on the Timeline then make the entire Spot one Subproject. I then take the tape I get from my CC suite with CC encoding (I supply our captionist with raw video or roughed in video/audio of my spot) and drop it below on the timeline in sync. I stretch out a one frame DVE I created in Mirage (using Horizontal Wipe Transition) across the two that masks 99.3 percent of the Raw video leaving only the top line or two that contains CC and the remaining video showing is from the Subproject. So far it works great and allows me to finish my spots all in the VT3 without having to book time in the On-line Digital Suite like I used to do. I could explain this better if anyone is interested.

radams
10-16-2004, 12:25 AM
This is very interesting Brad,

Please go on!!

Jim_C
10-16-2004, 10:11 AM
Nie work Brad!
Have not seen you around in awhile.
welcome back.


Jim

Terrence
10-16-2004, 11:22 AM
A big thanks for taking the time.
BIG THANKS

bradl
10-16-2004, 09:54 PM
Think I covered the bases unless anyone has specific questions. We are looking into some Applications (CPC and Pro Cap) that we may use with FCP or for DVD and Web. I will post some screen caps of my VT CC setup Sunday evening.

bradl
10-17-2004, 09:10 PM
I did a little experimenting tonight. Attached below is an image showing three different sources: Fox News with CC, LW Animation with In-house CC, and Studio Camera raw without CC. I did a wipe between all three and saved out a PNG and loaded into Photoshop.

Apparently the first 4 lines (or 5 with Fox) of the 486 are used for CC. Here is the breakdown of the first 5 lines
Line 1 Fox - Black In-house CC - Black Camera Raw - Black

Line 2 Fox - CC In-house CC - CC Camera Raw - Video

Line 3 Fox - CC (Secondary?) In-house CC - Black Camera Raw - Video

Line 4 Fox - Black In-house CC - Black Camera Raw - Video

Line 5 Fox - Black In-house CC - Video Camera Raw - Video

bradl
10-17-2004, 09:16 PM
This next image shows the Timeline with the 3 stages Edited CC Encoded Dropped below that DVE Mask applied

I always thought of Line 21 as outside of the visible or 486 active lines but I guess that is not true. So... you can add or pass CC with VT3 (or any card I guess) but the trick with VT3 to add CC graphically you would have to crop the CC encoded video down to the first 4 lines which you can't do because any cropping 'throws out' the pixels surrounding your video as described in my original post, however the custom DVE solves this issue.

I have attached the DVE as well in case anyone wants to look at it. It is only 1 frame long.

bradl
10-17-2004, 09:18 PM
Here is the DVE :)

tonsofpcs
11-13-2004, 12:37 AM
Just thought you might like to know that the 'second line' of captioning you see on Line 22 seems to be captioning that is sent for PAL countries when [and if] the video is transcoded.

See http://www.joeclark.org/dvd/capabilities.html.

bradl
11-13-2004, 02:03 PM
Just thought you might like to know that the 'second line' of captioning you see on Line 22 seems to be captioning that is sent for PAL countries when [and if] the video is transcoded.
Thanks for the info!

Just in case anyone interested in CC missed it I wanted to link to this thread: Closed Captioning with VT[3]!!! (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=29624)

Chris Echols
11-17-2005, 03:12 PM
For some reason, I'm not able to download the DVE attached to Brads post? Does anyone have it that can send it to me at
[email protected] ?