View Full Version : Discreet pisses me off...

08-25-2004, 08:42 AM
I got version 5. Upgraded to version 6. Not all the people I do contract work with have upgraded to version 6, not all of the plug-ins have upgraded to version 6, so I kept 5 installed. And version 7 is going to be here soon.

3DS Max 5 dies. After you install version 6, it starts a timer on version 5 that counts down and 120 days after the install it will no longer work. You have to call Discreet and beg them to extend it or something. And they will not. Unless you're some huge corp I bet.

And if version 5 is on the machine while 6 is there... it's a violation of the EULA.

I'm in face punching mode now. I want to push that Discreet employee down a flight of stairs... I'm gonna launch LW and and model some godd**m happy trees and make a fat cup of coffee...

I like that I can launch LW versions 5-8 on the same **** machine... and not get in trouble for it.

08-25-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by Lamont
I like that I can launch LW versions 5-8 on the same **** machine... and not get in trouble for it.
Not only that, but you can run it multiple times (especially be the time Max starts up) on the same machine ;)

Yeah, discreets licensing _really_ sucks.


08-25-2004, 08:54 AM
I don't think EULAs are really legal .. and they've never been tested in court from what I know ;)

But you can see the difference between Discreet upgrading with nothing every 18 months or so and not letting you use older versions, compared to Lightwave being updated when they feel they've changed enough, and allowing you to use older versions, transfer licences etc. Discreet obviously are more interested in the money than the users.

08-25-2004, 08:59 AM
Just reaffirms my love for Newtek and LightWave.

I get the impression that Discreet is evil incarnate and is run by Satan himself.

08-25-2004, 11:03 AM
Yupper- I too, totally dig LW's "non-invasive of the legitimate guy" attitude as well.

This kind of horse effluence would land me in a funny farm cage wrapped in a rather tight little jacket.

Signal to Noise
08-26-2004, 12:14 PM
Just reaffirms my love for Newtek and LightWave.

I get the impression that Discreet is evil incarnate and is run by Satan himself.

You mean Bill Gates owns discreet? :eek:


08-26-2004, 12:24 PM
Man, these guys make M$ look positively user friendly! :rolleyes:

08-26-2004, 12:32 PM
yup, i dumped the idea of upgrading max when i bought max 4...I moved onto lightwave...

max is a good app but the people who "run" the company need to be rolled in razor wire.

but hey..max is on it's way to oblivion anyway..max 7 features suck maya and XSi will eat their userbase up within a year and spit max out as a disguarded "old app"...that is a wonna be.
..max used to have 80% share of the game market...that fell by a huge amount with the re pricing of maya a while back..and now with xsi foundation i can see nearly all max studios adding seats of xsi foundation just to "take a peek" at it...then if they think it's okay they'll move to maya/xsi...discreet seen to put their head in the sand and have very little regard to their once loyal users of which i was one until they ripped me off with upgrading combustion 1 to 2.0 then all the subscription ting really annoyed me nevermind that software key rubbish that only "hurts" artist who want to move the 3d app around for freelance work...i use max 3.1 for freelance max based work as it has a hardware dongle...makes it simple.

...end of moan!

steve g

08-26-2004, 12:40 PM
v4 of Max was great, if I had a choice, I'd go back to 4.

08-26-2004, 01:01 PM
I have never heard of licensing like Max has.

08-26-2004, 01:20 PM
I'm sorry to hear that Lamont- I know you need Vray and such for some of your projects. Let's cross our fingers and hope that we can bake stuff with the new Fprime when it comes out...or that Vray really does make a stand alone renderer.

MR in XSI isn't that same as Vray when it comes to arch stuff...no good solution right now...grrrr

Now would be a good time to get those LW render improvments that didn't make this build too!

08-26-2004, 02:28 PM
I feal your pain :mad:

Updating my MAX subscription was a real question this year, it took me two hard weeks to decide to.
There were only two things that decided me to update it in the end, the guys over at Chaos haven't quite got the stand alone of Vray out the door yet, and work are adopting MAX as the 3D tool of choice (after 7 years of being with LW), so me having my own copy of MAX made it easier to work from home if the situation warrents it.

Other than that, no way :(

08-26-2004, 02:40 PM
Yeah, the only reason I use Max is so I can do work remote, and the odd-ball file conversion to something. Freakin' stupid.

Well, I feel better now, the purchase of FPrime is going to be soon. I went to a friends place the other day, and finally got to play with it 1st hand. Amazing software.

08-26-2004, 03:51 PM
Well, just to add something in favor of Newtek, i saw a post on another forum about insurance for the Maya dongle, since if you kill it you had to buy a new one, but at the price of a new license (2000$) !!!!

Well, said that, customer support from Newtek is the best I've ever seen.

My 2C


08-26-2004, 04:07 PM
Good support and it's freakin' free. They'll walk you through the problem to boot. Anyways, the users here know a thing or two.

08-27-2004, 04:06 AM
Isn't it funny that Newtek will allow a thread when you're bitching about another 3D product but remove the ones where you're praising one? :)

08-27-2004, 04:40 AM
Hey it's their forum!


Have to say we've been looking at other apps, but things like this make me love LW and NT. Just hurry up with those new features / render enhancements guys! I can't wait forever!!!

08-27-2004, 06:04 AM
HGiger, I think it's Normal....

if you love my enemies, you ar one too, if you hate them, you're my friend...

No really is Max stuff that sucky ? Every morning, I watch my happy face in the mirror and say to myself, Alleluia, I choose LW.... :D

08-27-2004, 06:21 AM
max is fine, it the way they run it, sell it, promote it and upgrade it, support it that sucks.

no really...the app is very capable..just needs a new owner...ever since "discreet" took over from "kinetix" it's dived to lower depths in each release..now there's no forum moderators on their web board either that are paid by discreet...let 'em go...

i'm still working with max 3 and max 4...it's got some nice stuff in it...just needs to be bought by someone like newtek, avid or apple [on a mac?]

08-27-2004, 07:27 AM
Hey it's their forum!

Of course. I just thought it was funny.

08-27-2004, 12:15 PM
max is fine, it the way they run it, sell it, promote it and upgrade it, support it that sucks.

I agree with everything you say ..... except the bit about promoting it. That is definately something Newtek could learn from.

Every trade show I'm at so are Discreet promoting MAX to the fullest. Big flashy stand, really good well polished demonstrations and content being displayed that looks as though it just came out of the latest game/film.
Half the time Newtek don't even bother to turn up, and when they do they always do the logo text demo where they show how you can make it spin from the back of the layout to the front AAUUGGHHH !!!!! ;) :D

I know it's mainly a matter of company size and money, but please, pretty please, drop the spinning text and how to model a clay man "like" figure in under ten minutes demos ....... please ;)

08-27-2004, 01:35 PM
i think discreet could do better by having a virtual booth at siggraph like what newtek do...their demo's are good though..but are mostly game based..the discreet village stuff from 2001 2002 was good..not seen a more recent show as there are not many in the uk anymore...max does rely heavly on plugins though which is not a great way to promote your app..lw is a more complete solution and the support from newtek is very good....just need to get those lw8 manuals into europe..i paid for mine months back but still no manuals in the u.k...come on newtek where the diddly squit are they??

would be so much simpler than a 1500 page pdf.

08-27-2004, 02:26 PM
Well I love Combustion. And while I don't like 3ds I do like the results that come out of it. Some great Max work out there you have to admit. Not that LW doesn't have that too. ;)

Chris S. (Fez)
08-27-2004, 03:19 PM
I think a lot of Lightwavers underestimate Max.
I think a lot of Max guys underestimate Max for that matter.

Max is a great program that suffers from a few performance issues. Discreet addresses these issues in Max 7. Much better polygon performance, exponentially faster subds, awesome new smartskinning workflow and, best of all, it works great with Lightwave and Toaster. Max and Lightwave make a pretty powerful double dragon punch.

08-27-2004, 03:24 PM
Nothing is wrong with Max the application, something is wrong with Discreet.

08-27-2004, 05:20 PM
Nothing is wrong with Max the application, something is wrong with Discreet.

never understood this VERSUS stuff between users, anyway. Some is good, some bad, in all software.

tokyo drifter
08-28-2004, 04:44 AM
Why not put Max 5 and 6 on seperate partitions or on seperate PCs? A big pain, but thought I'd throw that out there. And yes, discreet is messed up, I'll be thinking twice before buying anything from them.

08-28-2004, 09:25 AM
Actually, and I may be very wrong, I thought Max's copy protection scheme wrote something to the boot record or somewhere important like that ...

08-28-2004, 09:40 AM
I bet some sucky 'marketing exec' thought up that idea. "Hey this will really peeve users off!" Seriously some people need a good slap.

08-28-2004, 01:02 PM
Yet another reason to hate discreet. As if I needed more. :)

08-28-2004, 04:31 PM
I bought Lightscape, its additional discs and network render software in 1998 for approx £3000 from its original developers. It was truely awesome - and after about 10-15 hours working on your LW model (on a pentium pro 150 mHz) it had produced a delicous lighting solution for your internal arch vis. With a small plug-in the environment was imported and you could move around it with the pathetic first generation OGL cards in real time! D1 frames took seconds to render and looked kick *****.

Then Descreet bought it - and promptly ceased development of the LW plugin. It works with 5.6 but no subsequent versions. It is criminal.

My 500,000c


08-29-2004, 04:18 PM
yeah lightscape is ace..i really must put some more time aside to use it...and newtek even sent out a 5.6 install so i can use the plugin for it even though i started with lightwave 7.0...newtek are brilliant for helping with that don't ya think?

..Hmm holiday monday...could be a lightwave/lightscape day!

08-29-2004, 11:04 PM
At work we use LW, M** & M*** And I can tell you fom first hand experience that NT and their distibutors get my vote as far as service goes. It's service done the old fashioned way ... where I feel like I come way before the $. LW has by far the most flexible and user friendly licensing solution and I've only now started to appreciate it after beeing through simmilar situations with both the others. $1800 AUS extra for the flexibility of using a package on both PC and MAC - (single seat mind you) ... seems criminal to me.