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Minou29
04-01-2003, 10:20 AM
I have used a combination of packages in the last 7 years that have been essentially used for architectural purposes: exploratory modelling in the preliminary stages of a project, LIGHTING SIMULATIONS and multimedia presentations for the client and/or press conferences.

LIGHTWAVE has become my main app for modeling mainly because of its flexibility and sobreity and ease of use. It will definetely take on a more influential role in architectural firms in the future.

LIGHTING SIMULATION / DESIGN is one of the more artistic sides in architecture that allow you to produce fascinating effects. I believe LIGHTWAVE'S radiosity engine would greatly benefit by integrating photometric support:

LIGHTSCAPE was one of the only packages that offered photometric support. However, development for the software was terminated a couple years back. Its radiosity engine was tentatively ported and mutilated to 3dStudio VIZ4 then to Max5.
(I only use Autodesk products if absolutely necessary...)

Other than that, FormZ has tried to integrate it but apparently with not much success. MENTAL RAY have added photometric support with version 3.1 but it's a heavy price not to mention to learn how to use it properly.

Is it reasonable to think that Newtek could integrate this feature that would make LIGHTWAVE a much more complete product for architectural visualisation?

tektonik
04-01-2003, 02:06 PM
I second that...

it really shouldn't be that hard to implement... or maybe it is ...

the only thing i know is that the geometry of light is fondamental to anything serious in interior renderings...

and i hate to have to resort to viz when we need it....

Lewis
04-09-2003, 09:55 PM
Agreed, that would be very useful thing. i'd like to "bake" radiosity solution and use it after without need to recalculate again - like Lightscape used to do.

harhar
04-09-2003, 11:00 PM
i'd like to "bake" radiosity solution and use it after without need to recalculate again - like Lightscape used to do.

you can do this with Lightwave already.

There are other photometric renderer out there, such as Accurender and Flamingo which are much cheaper than Mental Ray.

If newtek is to integrate true photometric rendering, it'll have to build a new photometric render engine from scratch. I would rather they spend the effort on improving existing renderer.

Lewis
04-09-2003, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by harhar
[B]you can do this with Lightwave already.



You can't bake surfaces what use incidence angle gradients (atleast that says in manuals) and that's surface what i use on daily basis with my car renders :). So for me look like useles 'coz if i'a making animation i need to calcualte (CPU acctualy) radiosity for every frame again and again :(.

But i do agrre that they could just try to improve this built in radiosity algorithm. Acctualy it just needs more speed and it will be fine IMHO :).

marko
04-11-2003, 11:17 AM
baking GI in LW is impossible task.
trust me i have spent so much time with trying to make someting useful.
this was one of reasons why together with christian bauer i started sibenik cathedral and sponza atrium competition.

http://hdri.cgtechniques.com/~sibenik2/

there are better and more elegant solutions on the market. to me it seams that integra has reached perfection.

to see how they implemented photometric support please read

http://www.integra.co.jp/eng/whitepapers/inspirer/

and to see some real results see

http://www.integra.co.jp/insight/forum/both.jpg

or movies

http://www.integra.co.jp/insight/movies.htm

best regards,

marko

ps i spent so many hours on previous discussion forum. if someone is interested i can provide you links

Panikos
04-14-2003, 04:19 PM
As far as I read from other people, baking and SN dont work together.

Exper
04-19-2003, 10:55 AM
;)
An example:

Area / linear light improvements
http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/34112.html?1039448061

Bye.

Pavlov
04-22-2003, 06:41 PM
Hi all,
first let me answer to Marko: baking in Lw is not so efficent, but doable. I always use it for my works, and here's a little trick: make Atlas UV wisely, otpimizing space and making several small UVs (NEVER make ahuge Atlas of the whole object). Bake very small HDR pics (form 50x50 to 300x300) without maps and shaders. Use these maps into Luminosity channel AND color channel (you can put other layers on top of these). Being HDR, you can raise intensity over 100% and you'll get nice overburn effects. DONT use antialias on these maps, just use Blending if necessary.

Anyway, i agree.. LW needs big improvements in GI area. Arch-viz market is by far the largest, so a little attention here could be a real benefit for LW.
I think a first step to do is to make render engien as a plugin class, so we could implement several other engines without having to export RIBs and so on. Second, baking has really to be improved and stored in some form... a shader?

Bye
Paolo Zambrini

cavalos
04-24-2003, 07:41 PM
Marko, why you think Integra has reached perfection?

I mean, I like how it looks but I`ve seen terrific pics come out of V-ray in half the time. In the other hand, Brazil is no slouch either but IMHO renderers like WinOsi and Dali are the best in quality field.

Best
Christian

harhar
04-24-2003, 09:39 PM
he's talking about photometric support.
Dali and Vray doesn't support photometric.

cavalos
04-25-2003, 02:07 PM
Is that good?...I mean what is the benefit in having photometric support for instance?
IMHO NT development team would focus it's attention to speed up rendering process (specially in GI), then things like photometic support and my personal favorites (dispersion and absoption) can have a place here.

Best
Christian
Speed, Speed, Speeed...that's all what we need ;)

marko
04-26-2003, 02:47 AM
trust me it is.

in reality there are no point area and spot lights. lightbulbs are packed in boxes which consists of reflectors and sometime difusors.

light geting out of those boxes is not homogenous (equal in all directions)

so photometric light simulate real life light intensity and color properties.

all world known light manufacturers produce IES file for download.

please take lok at these links

http://www.integra.co.jp/eng/whitepapers/inspirer/inspirer.htm#Chapter%202.
http://www.maxshade.com/lummanual/ch15_photometric.html
http://www.optis.fr/software/html_software/light3d/software_light3d.htm

and please take look at old forum (as eper mentioned)

http://forums.newtek.com/discus/messages/2/34112.html?1039448061

marko

cavalos
04-28-2003, 01:19 PM
For your consideration

Brazil R/S So far announced features, which are planned to be placed in v2.0, are:

- TRUE 3D Motion Blur
- Displacement mapping
- Massive Instancing
- Photometric light support
- Improved shadows

Best
Christian

marko
04-28-2003, 02:24 PM
interesting explanation for light distribution

http://www.optis.fr/software/html_software/speos/software_speos_intensity.htm

marko

harhar
04-28-2003, 04:01 PM
so Brazil didn't have displacemnet mapping in v1.0?

Cman
04-29-2003, 09:29 AM
Those Integra images are dang PERFECT!

http://www.integra.co.jp/insight/forum/both.jpg

cavalos
04-29-2003, 05:19 PM
Amazing pics Marko...hope we see some of that in LW soon

marko
04-30-2003, 12:41 PM
http://www.mpi-sb.mpg.de/~goesele/projects/LightMeasure/


Accurate Light Source Acquisition and Rendering