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Ramon
08-06-2004, 10:50 PM
hello everyone. Hope to see some of you at Siggraph!
This is a dragon project that I had been working on once and awhile (when time has afforded me the opportunity. Like to get your feedback :)
Here it is:
http://ramonart.com/drg.jpg

JDaniel
08-07-2004, 12:21 AM
It turned out nice Ramon! ;)

edyzero
08-07-2004, 01:07 AM
Really nice I hope to get as good as you.

Please reply mine, wanna know how am i doing.

Cool & Thank you

veljko
08-07-2004, 03:10 AM
looks great-
it has that feel you can only get when polishing an image for some time
on the bad saide,
the golden heap looks flat, specially on the darker part-
this i think you could solve if you made the coins that are textured on the heap shimmer and glow- you can acheave this by making a good specularity/reflection map for the coin texture-
with this you might break up the eaven and flat area of the heap that has no modelled coins-

hope this helps!
:)

-the lightening and the atmosphere is excellent

veljko
08-07-2004, 03:10 AM
looks great-
it has that feel you can only get when polishing an image for some time
on the bad saide,
the golden heap looks flat, specially on the darker part-
this i think you could solve if you made the coins that are textured on the heap shimmer and glow- you can acheave this by making a good specularity/reflection map for the coin texture-
with this you might break up the eaven and flat area of the heap that has no modelled coins-

hope this helps!
:)

-the lightening and the atmosphere is excellent

veljko
08-07-2004, 03:10 AM
looks great-
it has that feel you can only get when polishing an image for some time
on the bad saide,
the golden heap looks flat, specially on the darker part-
this i think you could solve if you made the coins that are textured on the heap shimmer and glow- you can acheave this by making a good specularity/reflection map for the coin texture-
with this you might break up the eaven and flat area of the heap that has no modelled coins-

hope this helps!
:)

-the lightening and the atmosphere is excellent

Fasty
08-07-2004, 04:40 AM
Sensational!!! Congrats on getting the image finished. I agree with the money looking a tad flat, but otherwise it's fantastic! Are you still animating him/her/it?

Ramon
08-07-2004, 01:19 PM
JDaniel:
Thanks, and thanks also for your help with the nondistortive UV advice. Your tutorial is great. You're a smarty (and I mean that in a good way).

edyzero: Thank you. I'll help in however I can.

veljko: Thanks, the image was polished up in photoshop with the lighting effect. The lighting effects were "hand" painted in Photoshop primarily because the volumetric lighting in the LW scene was taking WAY TOO LONG! This was much more feesable in Photoshop and offered much more control for the mood which I was looking for.
I haven't used Fprime so I'm not sure whether this would have made the volumetric test renders much faster but if so, I may consider it.
The gold pieces mound isn't excatly the way I would like for it too look. I would like to work on that but, the duplication of so many polys is just daunting, even for my xeon dual 2.8 with 2 gig ram. It might just be my junky 32mb card that's the real issue with that though. Planning on upgrading that real soon.
Although it doesn't look like it in this render, the pieces do have spec and bump though the light's angles aren't very condusive to extracting them. I'll work with the virtual set to see if I can "pull out" the maps.
Fasty: Thanks! At this point I only have an open gl render of the final animation.
And here it is:
http://ramonart.com/drg_ogl.mov

JDaniel
08-07-2004, 04:50 PM
I'm glad Ramon. :)
I've used the psd filter to render out a depth image, and w/ some streaks in photoshop w/ a blending mode, is another way I did before for fast volumetrics.

emoboy83
08-08-2004, 06:45 PM
looks very cool, very alan lee. i was thinking, couldnt you use a displacment map for the gold. how much of the ighting is ps and how much is lw. anyway looks unreal and i cant wait to see the animation rendered out. great work again.

Julie_Boland
08-08-2004, 09:46 PM
Awsome work Ramon. :D

The dragon looks really great.

glassefx
08-09-2004, 07:12 AM
Wow Ramon...

I was watching the mov and noticed some things you could work on to make this great piece near perfect... Mr. Dragon seems just to pop-up and fly with no body movements, you got his neck whipping a bit which is correct but you need to make his spine bend before he squats a bit the explodes off into the air. You could also use his tail by whipping it really hard and fast before he springs off...

very good indeed!

peace

Ramon
08-09-2004, 10:58 AM
Thanks all,
JD:
So you mean - don't make the dragon renderable and just render a the light by itself and use the alpha to comp it in AE?
But, I thought that depth maps were only available in RLA format?
I haven't used depth maps much - for comping or otherwise, that's why I ask.
Thanks!

emoboy83:
Thanks!:) But, I don't know how Alan Lee is.
The thing with the displacement for the gold is two fold:
1. I would have to bump up the polys to an incredible number to get the small circular coins to not look really artifectual (if that is a word - probably not but, I think you know what I mean).
2. Creating that displacement map in photoshop would also be a bit of a hassle (given that I know that it's something that will cause artifacts in the LW displacement). Each one of the coins in the tile would have to have a layer of flat gray color each one slightly varying in value.
About the the lighting - All the "visual" light that you see was created in photoshop. Also, I accentuated the bounced light on the tail and on the cavern rock wall I wanted the effect that the gold was reflected on to it (more than the area light was creating which I had there for that purpose). One more post thing - the bright coins the light were "prettied" up in PS.

Julie:
Thank you so much!:D I'm glad you like it. I can post different angles of him if you like. Personally, I like the head of the dragon particularly.

glassefx:
Thanks
I appreciate your advice also. :) Yeah, that would look better if there was a body contraction. I made the dragon drop down some before "leaping" to get a bit of feeling of jumping as his wings are coming down to "pick up" were the jump left off so that his vertical movement has some validity. However, I think a coiling of (curving) of the body for preparation of the take-off would further validate the vertical accent.
To do this though is a quite bit of work given the fact that any new movements to the spine will of course directly impact the movement of the tail and will then require the tail movement to re-compensate. Animating the spine for the curve isn't the problem, it's the tail that would be the time taker. Would have been great if I thought about that before the tail animation.
DOH!!

emoboy83
08-09-2004, 06:23 PM
mmm, i just recomended a displacment instead of cloning all those coins. therefore you would really only have geometry for what you could see, not the underside of the coins etc. anyway i really dont think it looks that bad like it is. actually it would be nice to see some individual coins at least near the camera.

ps: alan lee is one of the two guys who is world renowned for his work on lord of the rings, even before the film!

Julie_Boland
08-09-2004, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Ramon

Julie:
Thank you so much!:D I'm glad you like it. I can post different angles of him if you like. Personally, I like the head of the dragon particularly.


Yeah, thanks Ramon. I'd like to see a close up of the head myself. :D

Ramon
08-09-2004, 07:13 PM
emoboy: Actually, I had deleted the underside of the coin before I duplicated them.
ps,.. Thanks for the info on Alan Lee. I didin't know that. It's funny that he has to do with Lord of the Rings because I started this from the memory I had of the cartoon "the hobbit" Ya'll remember that? It was a long time ago! late 70's I believe it was. Anyway, I wanted to create a very realistic dragon on a hoard of gold.

Julie:
LOL ok... your request is granted :D
http://www.ramonart.com/images/DRG_head_test2.jpg

Julie_Boland
08-09-2004, 07:31 PM
WOW!

Very cool!

Thanks so much Ramon. :D

Ramon
08-09-2004, 08:12 PM
No problem Julie. The black areas have a bluish irredecense though it doesn't show from this angle. In an animation you can clearly see it. I like the rredecent deal, it's cool for these types of things.