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View Full Version : keyframe magazine, which used to be lightwavin' magazine, is now HDRI 3D magazine....



archiea
08-05-2004, 03:31 AM
uh.... Ok.

Did anybody else get this email regarding their subscription?

Here's the spartan link...

http://www.hdri3d.com/

http://www.dmgpublishing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=H3&Affiliate=DMG

GeorgeDittmar
08-05-2004, 03:36 AM
is this a legitamit magazine? i am wondering cause...well....that web site is auwfull.....

TSpyrison
08-05-2004, 07:41 AM
I got that e-mail too..

It would be nice to have a lightwave magazine keep the same name for more than a year :)

What I dont know.. is how much of my keyframe subscription is left. Do they want me to buy a whole new subscription?

Is Lightwave going to get burried underneath junk for every other 3d program out there?

:confused:

erich
08-05-2004, 07:50 AM
I don't get why people insist on still doing "paper" mags. Pdfs are much cheaper for everyone and alot easier to distribute to a wider audience. And if I need it on paper, I can just print it from my computer. :)

Please tell me there will be a pdf version. :) I think print mags are on there way out. At least for me anyway.

TSpyrison
08-05-2004, 07:55 AM
Yea, But you cant read a PDF file sittin on the toilet

:D

erich
08-05-2004, 08:00 AM
You can if you print it :)

Hervé
08-05-2004, 08:23 AM
where the ripp-off....?:D :rolleyes:

dablan
08-05-2004, 08:38 AM
LightWave isn't going anywhere folks.

High End magazine is ending. HDRI 3D will be covering LightWave, XSI, Maya, Messiah, Modo, and much more. As an animator, it's good to know what can be done in other applications, and apply that to your own. This extended coverage will help bring in more advertisers, which in turn helps keep the LightWave publication on the market.

I'll still be editing - and you know I use LightWave...

js33
08-05-2004, 12:25 PM
Hi Dan,

Well it's good to see what can be done with other software but if you don't own or use those other programs it's kind of pointless to read about it. So basically what another poster said was true Lightwave coverage will be buried under XSI, Maya, Messiah, Modo, and much more coverage. So basically HDRI 3D is just a rolling up of Keyframe into Highend magazine and dropping Keyframe? Well I'm willing to have a look at the new mag but basically Keyframe is dead.

Cheers,
JS

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 12:28 PM
Looking at the Advisory Board Members, it's pretty clear that LW users don't have anything to worry about. Personally, I think it's a good move even though I only use Lightwave.

Dan, do you know whether the price special can be used to extend a subscription? :)

dablan
08-05-2004, 12:40 PM
Hi Dan, Well it's good to see what can be done with other software but if you don't own or use those other programs it's kind of pointless to read about it. So basically what another poster said was true Lightwave coverage will be buried under XSI, Maya, Messiah, Modo, and much more coverage. So basically HDRI 3D is just a rolling up of Keyframe into Highend magazine and dropping Keyframe? Well I'm willing to have a look at the new mag but basically Keyframe is dead. Cheers, JS

Wow, what a pessimistic post! I think it is essential for animators to always pay attention to other packages. Find out what makes them tic, how they go about doing things, and discover how to approach that same technique in LightWave.

The bottom line is, it's not financially possible to keep "just" a LightWave magazine alive. We can't pay our contributors that much, and there are little advertisers. Everyone wants a "review" hence, free ad for their product, but only a few key people have really been advertising. This my friends, is how the LightWave community has been for years. I've worked with LightWave magazines for 10 years. Nothing has changed. The new magazine format will have a larger focus, and be more in tune with the industry. We're talking with my friends that worked on I, Robot, using, yes, LightWave. LightWave won't be 'buried' under the otehr appilcations. Each will have their own focus.

erich
08-05-2004, 12:49 PM
So, what about doing it as a pdf. It would certainly be less expensive for all concerned. :)

dablan
08-05-2004, 01:18 PM
That's really up to the publisher.

Personally, a PDF defeats the purpose of doing a magazine.

erich
08-05-2004, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by dablan
That's really up to the publisher.

Personally, a PDF defeats the purpose of doing a magazine.

What purpose is that? I personally feel a pdf is a much better way to go. It allows you to access a much larger market for less cost. They are very easy to use and universal. And, if I want a hard copy of a part of the mag, I just hit print. :).

What more "purpose" do you want? :) I really think this is the medium of choice for our times. And with the costs of shipping a mag to other countries exceptionally high (as well as other costs like currency exchange and brokerage fees), it just makes a whole lot more sense from a number of perspectives.

But, that is just my opinion and it is why I don't buy a lot of magazine subscriptions (and I know I am not the only one that feels this way).

Cheers. :)

dablan
08-05-2004, 01:56 PM
It really is a matter of preference.
I like a magazine so I can get away from the computer screen. Granted, I'm in front of it about 16 hours a day - so, a change of scenery is nice at times :)


But as stated, a PDF is up to the publisher. I just edit the magazine.

Skritter
08-05-2004, 07:32 PM
So just so I can get this straight......
.
IS 'Keyframe Magazine' Finishing?
.
.....as a stand alone Lightwave Mag

lesterfoster
08-05-2004, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by erich
What purpose is that? I personally feel a pdf is a much better way to go. It allows you to access a much larger market for less cost. They are very easy to use and universal. And, if I want a hard copy of a part of the mag, I just hit print. :).

What more "purpose" do you want? :) I really think this is the medium of choice for our times. And with the costs of shipping a mag to other countries exceptionally high (as well as other costs like currency exchange and brokerage fees), it just makes a whole lot more sense from a number of perspectives.

But, that is just my opinion and it is why I don't buy a lot of magazine subscriptions (and I know I am not the only one that feels this way).:)



I can see the advantages of covering all programs. But I feel that PDF's are the way to go. I am not much in to the printed form. If it is in a PDF format I could not just print out the stuff that interests me. But I can make my computer read it to me with the help of programs like Monologue for windows and Natural Voice reader (http://www.naturalreaders.com/) .

I am interested in subscribing in a magazine that has to do with LightWAVE in PDF format.

hrgiger
08-05-2004, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by dablan
I like a magazine so I can get away from the computer screen.




Absolutely.

lasvideo
08-05-2004, 08:12 PM
Since I have no vested interest one way or another in this magazine, I can honestly say....I am not interested in a magazine
that will cover programs I dont use. Its dilutes the content and
for my expereince..has no worth. I say that as an video editor first and foremost and an animator secondarily. Some will rationalize the importance of diversity...they also seem to have some relationship with the publication or are professionals using many applications. This makes sense for them.
. Make up your own mind, everyone...thats all that matters in the long run. I will pass on the product and focus on those publications (and there are many to be had...books and DVDs) that enhance my appreciation of LW.

lesterfoster
08-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by hrgiger
Absolutely.

Yes! I agree so much. So why not just hit print.?

It would save a lot of trees

dablan
08-05-2004, 08:53 PM
See, everyone has a point - all valid.

I think the new magazine will be done very nicely. It will not be just a LightWave magazine. That does not mean LightWave coverage will be less. We will still cover VT3, Photoshop, and so on. And, believe it or not, there are other methods to modeling and texturing than just LightWave's. Taking a look at another application might open your eyes to new ideas.



See you at SIGGRAPH!

Silkrooster
08-05-2004, 09:53 PM
I can see the advantage of both print and PDF's. Several magazines are creating both. If a publisher creates a pdf, there is a good chance that they will make the pdf non printable. Remember the copyright law. Publishers do not want their publications distributed when they need to sell backprints to keep their company going.
A pdf is nice when your following some kind of tutorial. The printed version is nice just to get a way from the screen. So each have their benefits. What would be nice is to get a printed version with a cd full of demo's, video tutorials, textures, objects, rigs, and let's not forget that pdf.;)
Silkrooster

archiea
08-05-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by dablan
It really is a matter of preference.
I like a magazine so I can get away from the computer screen. Granted, I'm in front of it about 16 hours a day - so, a change of scenery is nice at times :)


But as stated, a PDF is up to the publisher. I just edit the magazine.

Dan-inator!

thanks for posting to help put a face/name to the magazine. It seems the problem is that the LW community can't afford an exlusive LW coverage to put out a quality periodical. I think part of the blame is the internet.... why advertise in a magazine that can be as old as 6 months and have a limited subscription, while the internet is immediate and has a potential for everyone with a computer to view it...

My fears are the following:

1) If Keyframe mag had, say, 16 total pages of content, does that mean that HDRI mag will have 16 pages of LW content as well? So essentily, am I going to get the same 16 pages of keyframe magazine along with 15 of max, 17 of Maya, 12 of Softimage, etc. Or will it stillbe 16 pages of content with four dedicated to LW ala 3D magazine. I believe its the former, but I figure I;d ask...

2) I think I had a subscription to Highend mag, and I know I have a sub to keyframing. Does that mean that both get added to the HDRI mag? is there someone should I should call?

3) will there still be at least one ad with a silly lens flare in it just to remind us of our roots... Remember circa LW 3.0, when EVERY SINGLE AD IN A LW MAG HAD A STINKIN LENS FLARE IN IT!!


:D

Anyway, thanks....

Hervé
08-05-2004, 11:22 PM
I am very disapointed here Folks....

I am tired of PDF's, but they seam to be the future of trees, so let's not be upset....

People want to make money... fine... but before any mag, I'd really like to see (and this would be a sort of reward from NT, coz we waited soooo long for a "not really ready LW8" and we have now to pay for the manual.... -big savings here-) a sort of newsletter from NT itself... and this could cover new tips and tricks as well as keeping us informed of NT plans.... and just regular users could receive it under the form of a ....PDF....

I know there are some "tuts" already on NT' site, but I dont care (not because they are not good), I want exclusive new stuff monthly... and free of course... we pay enough of our easy earned money....:D ;)

Hervé
08-05-2004, 11:27 PM
Dan dont misunderstand me here, everyone has a good POV, but I want NT to make an step first .... we all deserve it for not jumping boat, and as U know lately other 3D Companies were **** agressive these days...

3D Market competition is a fierce one, just what I like....:D

Note ; I have almost all your books Dan !:D

badllarma
08-05-2004, 11:46 PM
Actually there is a mag that does bits on other software and has at least 4 pages a month on Lightwave (thanks to Benjamin Smith and Ben Vost) and that's 3D World.

I though the whole point of Newtekpro and Keyframe was it was specialised in the area of Newtek Products to now kill off Keyframe and bring in a mag with all other 3D "Hight End" software included IMO totally defeats the object.

For general info I go for 3D World if I want specialist information in great detail about films I go for Cinefex I cannot really see where another general info 3D mags market is going to be? CGI Mag tried it in the UK and lost to 3D World you add postal costs on top of the new mags price and I cannot see how it will make any head way at all over seas.

SplineGod
08-06-2004, 01:01 AM
Not much of surprise. Nobody seems to be able to keep a decent LW magazine alive....
I agree with badllarma
I can see covering Maya and LW in the same magazine since theyre used together often but why Modo? Seems like a bad mix especially after the debacle Lux caused in the LW community. :confused:
Theres always 3DWorld... :)

js33
08-06-2004, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by dablan
Wow, what a pessimistic post! I think it is essential for animators to always pay attention to other packages. Find out what makes them tic, how they go about doing things, and discover how to approach that same technique in LightWave.

The bottom line is, it's not financially possible to keep "just" a LightWave magazine alive. We can't pay our contributors that much, and there are little advertisers. Everyone wants a "review" hence, free ad for their product, but only a few key people have really been advertising. This my friends, is how the LightWave community has been for years. I've worked with LightWave magazines for 10 years. Nothing has changed. The new magazine format will have a larger focus, and be more in tune with the industry. We're talking with my friends that worked on I, Robot, using, yes, LightWave. LightWave won't be 'buried' under the otehr appilcations. Each will have their own focus.

Hi Dan,

Didn't mean to sound so pessimistic. :(
I talked to Alice via email and she said the new mag will essentially still be the same amount of Keyframe content with other stuff added so it sounds better now than I was thinking before. ;) I am willing to give it go.
Maybe you should consider making it a monthly magazine so you could get more ad revenue. It's easy to forget about a mag that only comes out bimonthly.

Cheers,
JS

mcewan7
08-06-2004, 03:49 AM
Just to add my POV as a current UK keyframe subscriber.

As far as PDF's go, I'm not against them, but I prefer to pay extra for a professionaly printed publication.

I must admit to being a bit worried about change to something that I currently like it the way it is. But it could be a change for the better. I am willing to give it a try, if I don't like it, then I stop buying it - simple.

Yog
08-06-2004, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by js33
Hi Dan,

Well it's good to see what can be done with other software but if you don't own or use those other programs it's kind of pointless to read about it.
JS

I don't agree.
Some of the best techniques I learnt for Lightwave came about by reading tutorials for other software.
After a couple years of having to use MAX, I can't really say I'm comfortable using it, or even like it, but I can't deny that I didn't learn an awful lot in MAX that I was able to bring back to my LW modelling.
Often it is a big help to step out of any rutt you may find yourself in, learn new tricks and then re-look at how you were working before. Was it the most efficient method, or could it be improved ?

Besides, apart from texturing and dynamic effects, which still seem very program specific, most things related to modelling and animating in one program are easily transferable to another.

pixeltek
08-06-2004, 09:41 AM
I did not get that email, BTW.

I am reminded of 3D Magazine and 3D Artist Magazine. I understand the reasons (e.g. Newtek Pro Mag), but that really does not make me feel any better. Both of those magazines, trying to cover the breadth of the industry, are now sadly a thing of the past.

3D World, by Future Publishing, is hanging in there, but has, in the hands of yet another change of editors, once more become a nearly package-dedicated magazine, and IMO should change its name to 3D(S Max) World. It would more accurately reflect their current bias.

All in all, while enjoying information about other SW packages as well, which I get from many sources, I do mourn the change of Keyframe Magazine, and consider it a real loss to the LW community, unfortunately, the bottom line dictates, and apparently there is little that can be done about that.

Karl

Hervé
08-06-2004, 09:54 AM
amen:D

pixeltek
08-06-2004, 12:10 PM
Having said what I did in my previous post, I'd like to add that, like many of us, this skepticism and pessimism regarding magazines is steeped in historical perspective. Years ago, when I entered 3D graphics via Caligari's Truespace, I recall a couple of failed attempts to create a Truespace mag. It is indeed very difficult to maintain a single-package oriented publication (e.g. NewTek Pro). However, in addition to the already mentioned 3D Artist Magazine and the quite popular 3D Magazine, those publications, at least here in the US, are proof that even a multi-sw magazine is not guaranteed to survive. I recall Bill Fleming's S3D (Serious 3D) magazine that survived in printed form (which I prefer over PDF any day) for two or three issues and then moved to the web, where it failed again some months later. Being ever the optimist, in spite of what I say here, I was among the subscribers to all of those magazines. I guess hope does spring eternal, and I hope that this change is not the precursor to the end of what was a great run for Keyframe, but the beginning of a new and revitalized and survivable future, that continues to feed us LW great tutorials and LW-related information.

Karl
http://www.cosmic-pearl.com/

mattclary
08-06-2004, 12:47 PM
I've completely given up on subscribing to any 3D magazines. I just scan the occasional issue at Barne's & Noble to see if it has anything I want. All I care about is LightWave. Keyframe has too much VT and other magazines have too much other stuff to warrant a subscription.

I would rather buy one of Dan's books every 2 years or so, it has more bang for the buck. The price of 3 Keyframes covers that.

gjjackson
08-06-2004, 02:26 PM
The only problem with PDF's and publishing is once the PDF is out, people can just post it somewhere and the magazine would lose the revenue. I wonder if that's why Newtek only allowed authorized downloads of their LW8 Pdf's.

Architook
08-06-2004, 05:38 PM
I can't think of any time a change of title/focus/ownership of a trade magazine made it better. I think it hints at giving up, and the change is a way to reduce/avoid the liability of subscribers. (yes, publishers list subscribers as a liability, since those people have already paid $, and the company now owes them magazines.).

Matt
08-06-2004, 06:22 PM
I don't mind reading about other apps in mags like 3DWorld for example, I love LightWave, but I'm not precious about it to the point that I won't read about any other 3D progs.

A lot of skills are transferable anyway.

I can see the point about a PDF mag, but there's something nice about a glossy mag, I suppose it's similar to having a CD with the inlay cover et all and a CDR, content is the same but it's just not as nice!

hrgiger
08-06-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod

Theres always 3DWorld... :)

3D world is usally about 16% good and about 84% total crap.

I can imagine that it's hard to support a magazine, solely on one application.
I'm definately going to at least check out HDRI magazine especially since Keyframe is about the only magazine I buy right now.

Signal to Noise
08-11-2004, 12:07 PM
I'm confused...:confused:

Is it KeyFrame or Highend3D that is becoming HDRI 3D (pardon the pun)? Or both being combined into one under the HDRI umbrella?

I remember the email mentioning KeyFrame but Dan says Highend3D in this thread.

Either way, I subscribe to both current iterations so I look forward to the new reincarnation.

And now that I just bought XSI Foundation at the new price point I'm tweaked in getting as much info as I can. Highend3D has been pretty much a reference/interest magazine for me but now I be able to actually apply stuff!:)

pixeltek
08-19-2004, 12:29 PM
From what I gather, starting Nov 2004, there will be only one. However, I can also say this with full confidence, that DMG Publishing will fairly treat all who have existing subscriptions (as they did with the NewTek Pro subscribers in conjunction with NT) by rolling the subscriptions over into HDRI 3D Mag.

BTW, the special Siggraph edition for 2004 is probably not counted here, although I'd never be so petty to insist one way or the other. [edited by the moderators]

Karl
http://www.cosmic-pearl.com/

dablan
08-19-2004, 12:43 PM
The new magazine, HDRI3D, will be all the LightWave you've come to know and love in Keyframe, as well as a significant amount of information for XSI, messiah, Modo, Photoshop, Digital Fusion, and of course VT3.

As for the special SIGGRAPH edition of Keyframe, it had two articles all about VT3 and a LightWave article. Advertising, as you know, pays the bills. I'm not sure if it's for sale, but perhaps that's something DMG Publishing would like to offer for a few bucks if there are any issues left.

In either case - the new magazine will certainly have LightWave coverage...

More to come...