View Full Version : rework

04-01-2003, 01:07 AM
everything modeled and render in LW 7,5b, for your consideration.


04-01-2003, 01:13 AM
let's try

04-01-2003, 01:48 AM

04-01-2003, 04:06 AM
Astonishing! One of those rare images where it is seriously hard to see anything that shows it is not a photograph!

So teeny tiny suggestions? :)

Perhaps reduce the depth of field effect very slightly?

And the bottom edge of the blue vase looks very slightly above the surface of the tablecloth to my eye.

But still a stunning piece of work.


04-01-2003, 04:25 AM
How about a tutorial on how to make those apples?


04-01-2003, 04:52 AM
Really nice picture !

I have to agree about the dof, don't know if it's usefull ... maybe you can play with the image in the board to create some weird athmosphere I don't know ...

The right apple is flying too ;)

... excellent work indeed !

04-01-2003, 05:17 AM
Fantastic job on the textures, particularly the table top and the and the table cloth. The only thing that kind-of sort-of but not really an issue that maybe needs a tweakin' would be the light-source specularity. It would maybe benefit with a luminous window panel/gobo type of thing. Its really tough to suggest because the apples look really good with the spec but the vase seems to lose a bit. Not quite sure what your intended light source is but again, its a miniscule thing. That and the "happy-apple" on the right :) Ok, back to my corner.

04-01-2003, 06:35 AM
Nice try - stop taking pictures of your dining room :eek:

That, is really, really...i mean REALLY good. Thats right up there with all of the leading CG movies...

04-01-2003, 10:40 AM
DON'T TOUCH THE DOF!!!! If you had to take a picture of such a dark environment then you would have to use the Widest apperture to get as muhc light in as you can, resulting in a higher depth of field effect (smaller depth of field range). Also we can clearly see there is no distortion therefore meaning that to take such a photograph you have to take the picture with a zoom lens therefore increasing the depth of field efect even more.

The background picture is it the original references you have used? If so can we see it clearer?

The corner of the vase facing us looks like it needs a bit softer edges. Beside that... WOW!!! My hat to you and what I like to say is that this picture goes into my references/inspirational folder.

04-01-2003, 10:43 AM

I have to agree that the vase appears to float.

The only other thing is the apple just left of the vase. 2 things:
1) It's resting position isn't believeable
2) There's a red line on the texture leading up to the stem that, although not techinally wrong, is distracting.

That's it. Looks great and reminds me of a Vermeer painting.

04-01-2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by DragonAngel
DON'T TOUCH THE DOF!!!! If you had to take a picture of such a dark environment then you would have to use the Widest apperture to get as muhc light in as you can, resulting in a higher depth of field effect (smaller depth of field range). Also we can clearly see there is no distortion therefore meaning that to take such a photograph you have to take the picture with a zoom lens therefore increasing the depth of field efect even more.

I'm not a photographer - although I respect it highly as an artform, but why is it that 3D artist must strive for imitating photography (as the quote implies) - nothing personal, as this comes up time and time again.
Just beause we are used to seeing these kinds of pictures taken with a real camera, doesn't mean that when it's done in 3D that it has to look the same and conform to the same optical principles as a camera. If a painter wishes to represent the same image, he does not try to imitate the DOF of a camera, but instead the way he sees it with his eye. Why not try to represent in 3D in the same way - as an artform, instead of a camera mimicking technique??
Great work, by the way:D lighting, textures look good, and I agree about the floating objects...
Keep it up;)
btw, feel free to disagree with my *opinion*, but I'm not trying to start a flame war:rolleyes:

04-01-2003, 12:19 PM
Wow, really nice. I agree with Starbase - can't spot anything glaring that makes it look CG.

Edub, I can see your point of view and part of me is sympathetic.
But at the end of the day, a lot of stuff that blatantly looks CG, just ain't pretty. And anyway, what's the point of going halfway to realism, only to let it down at the last moment by a slightly dubious DoF setting (not that it is, I think it looks fine).


04-02-2003, 12:28 AM
Ok, here we go.....

Flohtzke, thanks, your first word was WOW and I loved it !

Starbase, thanks also, I am fixing those tiny stuffs, it was hard to lay down the objects in layout, coz this table is not straight, so i now didi it in modeler... (easier for me at least)

Peder, ..... so you like those apples..... the big part resides in the texturing part, modeling an apple is easy, so I'll post one of those for all the holly Lw'ers to look at, to reproduce it or to use it as... (here I made three different ones, it took me a long time.....), but where on the internet..... luxology.net ?

Paq, thanks for your input.... about the dof... I tried without..... well it did not satisfied me, (it was lacking of...... depth.... he he) the lens is 50 mm, and aperture is 4.0 (I use X-Dof)

Banshee, equal thanks to you, I might post (if I know where) the carpet textures as well.... now for the specularity, well you spoted something I also now changed.... the reflections on the vase were indeed to blurred, coz in fact ALL specularity channels for all the surfaces are 0%, but I recreated real world specularities as hot spots reflections...... lighting is a spot with a projected slightly blurred hdri picture from DoshDesign hdri skies.... + 2 panels with the same hdri mapped on it....

Zombat, you made the biggest compliment, so your check is in the mail.... Leading CG movies ?? Hmmm, I'll be happy if one day I can at least be in the NT gallery (then my wife will finally say, "ok, not too bad...)

Thaaannnks !, No dont worry, I wont touch it ! For the vase, well this vase really exits, again texture took me a while (about 50 pictures all stitched together, and UV mapped... the vase-all in fact - is sds... yes maybe I'll tweak a bit...

Thanks, yes for the apple, that is I am sure the back lighting... no? I will reduce it... as for placing objects on this table, I am carefully trying to really sit them on the table in modeler, the too strong back (right-back in fact) lighting is maybe giving the effect of non sitting objects, I'll check that...

Thanks also, yes I agree with your POV, painters dont see out of focus, but they already knew that if one wants to give depth in a painting, you had to alter reality with darker colors in backgrounds & large blurry brush strokes..... in the 16 century, red was considered as a first plan colors, so if you had to paint something red in the background, you were in the ****.... Rembrant came with a technique called in Hollandish "HOUDING", this way he could use reds in the background without diturbing the first plan image...

FXnut (Andy)
the wow really nice is touching me, thanks... Not just at the end of the day,...all the time, he he... and yes if you decide to go for realism, go full or stay cartoony...


04-02-2003, 12:35 AM
Beautiful! Absolutely. I don't usually write blatant praise, but this just pulled me in. Wonderful!

04-02-2003, 01:11 AM
a few screens

04-02-2003, 01:12 AM
Excellent work Hervé. Modelling, texturing, lighting... everything looks amazing. The subtle details really sell it.

Very inspiring.


04-02-2003, 01:12 AM

04-02-2003, 01:15 AM
more even

04-02-2003, 01:15 AM

great PR there.

the apple is floating, tell neo to go away. I think the position of the vase could be imporved by making it indent into the cloth, so it gives the impresion of weighing more than the apples...


04-02-2003, 01:16 AM
allez !

04-02-2003, 01:17 AM
ha ha

04-02-2003, 01:29 AM

I'll post another rework render of this with all the kind advices tomorrow..... thanks again

Thanks Stoehr (thanks), well shot Epita (I just did this, thanks)
Rob, a great appreciated thanks from you.... life is so detailed, I think I'll start to model the air one day... he he

04-02-2003, 01:36 AM
this is the completed chair background, I tried to imitate an old rough green brocaded smooth velvet.... also a copy of an existing 16 century Holland chair with spanish style (very "en vogue at that time)

04-02-2003, 01:58 AM
wow, that is a really good chair (im hanging around here) the seat, was it done with Sas (is it hair) or is it just really good maping.

Well done its very good


04-02-2003, 04:40 AM
Yep, the cloth on the chair is also very impressive - and cloth is rarely done well from what I see.

As for depth of field, that seems to be very strongly a matter of personal preference. It certainly removes the 'too crisp' appearance of much computer generated imagery. But for me it is in danger of becoming the new lens flare - a bit of a cliche.

Not that it detracts from this particular wonderful image.


04-02-2003, 04:47 AM
Thanks again ! Basically, those are just carefully..... maps... with the present version of sas, it would take 2 days to render as many fibers, but apparetly in a next version of Sas, we'll have a speial feature for extra short and dense fibers or hair or whatever....

Have a nice day

04-02-2003, 04:56 AM
I have missed your reply Starbase1, well in a sense you're right... bu I have to live with my time, so maybe I'll be cliché soon, although I want to try other techniques as well, a little bit like in painting where the background is really good not because of DOF fx, but more in the comp, and a lot in the textures and the lighting....

BTW, even in 16 century, Delft Vases were a bit cliché for a while, as everyone would start to paint them or to include one in their comps, but I guess the term cliché did not exists at that time.... woaw, I wrote all that for a cliché, I must be crazy ...

04-02-2003, 04:58 AM
I should call you Nick, no? Xcuse I had not read the signature.

so Cheers Nick !

04-02-2003, 11:21 AM
Just correct me if I'm wrong....

You mean the corner of the vase, here below highlighted, is exactly as the real vase was created? It just that my mom has one and its sort of much flatter. In other words the corner on my mom's is more flat and not rounded off sticking out of the edge.

04-03-2003, 07:28 PM
Hey, great stuff!!!
Ken Mac

John Fornasar
04-03-2003, 08:51 PM

Great work, looks like a Dutch Master...

so the only thing is to nitpick!!!

(by the way, none of this is obvious in the smaller picture, but only shows up in the larger render)

The apple to the left of the vase looks like it should roll forward to the "flat" spot where the yellow texture appears - I don't think you want to lose the color, so maybe "flatten" the bottom slightly to get more grounding to it (I just spent 10 minutes rolling apples to check this out).
I'm not sure if "Receive Shadow" is turned off on the tablecloth, or the shadows are subtle, but the apple to the right of the vase appears to be floating (although I can see by the flat render that it is firmly grounded). It might look like it's floating due to the pattern on the tablecloth, with one of the light areas of the pattern right in front of the apple. Not sure what you can do here.
One more... I'm not a furniture expert, so I might just be wrong here, but the brass tacks on the chair back look a bit too large, and the back looks "flat". The one chair we have here that is similar has smaller tacks (about 3/8") and the back is slightly rounded from the padding.

Again, great work, I wouldn't have written all of this if I wasn't impressed by your work.


John Fornasar
04-03-2003, 09:00 PM
Whoops, just read page two of the thread with your chair description...

the textures on the closeups really hold up - again, great work.

04-03-2003, 11:22 PM
it looks very realistic.
u should make a toturial on this awsome scene.

04-06-2003, 10:29 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

WHOA! fantastic, no crits! great work herve!!!!!!