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warik
07-19-2004, 09:56 PM
Is there a way to change the way bones are listed in the current item list in Layout using Lightwave8? All my bones are listed in the order the were created as skelegons. This is something that has always driven me crazy using LW7.5. I really hoped it would be fixed in LW8.

I would appreciate any help.

Warik

nickej
04-28-2005, 01:45 PM
Did you ever get an answer to this? It's driving me crazy now, too.

NanoGator
04-28-2005, 02:33 PM
On the one hand, it sort of makes sense that it works that way. (Have a peek at a scene file in Notepad...) On the other, it's annoying.

I don't think there's a way to make Scene Editor sort the bones, but I can tell you that we alphabetized them in Maestro. I don't think it'd be too hard for somebody to cook up an Lscript to give ya what ya want.

jeanphi
04-28-2005, 02:41 PM
They are stored by ID. This ID is based on the number of your skelegons.
If you want them to have a specific order you have, in modeler to cut past in the needed order, from the first in the list to the last.

For example:

cut past the master, then cut past the root ... cut past the upper arm, cut past the lower arm, cut past the wrist... Then merge bones you need to be parent/child.

In layout you will be able to navigate through your bone order with up/down arrow and they will be stored like this in the item list, in the scene editor and in the new scene editor (if you use the ID display order and not name display order).
It's usefull for character animation you can easyly found the bone you need as you know it's place in the ID hierarchy.

An option in Layout to reorder ID should be the solution for editing orders of item in Layout.

jeanphi
04-28-2005, 02:44 PM
Check this tutorial:

http://www.puffandlarkin.com/lightwave/tutorials/character_rigging/

And the specific order part:

http://www.puffandlarkin.com/lightwave/tutorials/character_rigging/order.html

NanoGator
04-28-2005, 02:48 PM
An option in Layout to reorder ID should be the solution for editing orders of item in Layout.

That's not a great idea. Some plugins for LW cache item ID numbers. If they miss the call to refresh the ID, then they'd suddenly move the wrong Item.

jeanphi
04-28-2005, 02:52 PM
If the core is well done this is not a problem... :p
But this is not the case...

nickej
04-28-2005, 03:19 PM
Wow, that's really messed up!
I think I'm going to try the workaround I read about a while ago, of arranging the bones and objects into an easily-understood graphical shape in the schematic view. In other words, if you're animating a human, put the bones into a human shape so that you can select them very quickly and intuitively. Since I'm animating a centipede-like thing, the list is just amazingly long and arranging the bones graphically, while a pain, will pay off in the long run, I'm sure.

NanoGator
04-28-2005, 03:20 PM
If the core is well done this is not a problem... :p


The core doesn't have a lot to do with it. It's a philosophical problem, not an implementation problem.

nemac4
04-28-2005, 03:38 PM
Is there a way to change the way bones are listed in the current item list in Layout using Lightwave8? All my bones are listed in the order the were created as skelegons. This is something that has always driven me crazy using LW7.5. I really hoped it would be fixed in LW8.

I would appreciate any help.

Warik

Try Manual Sort:

http://www.flay.com/GetDetail.cfm?ID=549

Dodgy
04-28-2005, 05:25 PM
LScripts or plugins shouldn't reference ID's at all, they should reference Object Agents. Lw automatically updates object references when an object is cleared from the scene, and so on, so these plugins when written correctly should stay correct.

For me, I just tend to hide the bones I don't animate with. I use Select parent/child/sibling to traverse the hierarchy rather than next bone/previous etc.

Use can use the Schematic tools to arrange your bones in Hierarchical order if you want to work that way.

NanoGator
04-28-2005, 05:29 PM
LScripts or plugins shouldn't reference ID's at all, they should reference Object Agents. Lw automatically updates object references when an object is cleared from the scene, and so on, so these plugins when written correctly should stay correct.

Oh... I thought Object Agents were related to the ID of the object. (i.e. the Object Agent would change if the ID of an item changed...)

Oopsie.

NanoGator
04-28-2005, 05:32 PM
oh Dodgy, OT: I saw that ya posted com-ring samples. Just wanted to let ya know I appreciate it! (I'm off that project for the next week or so, but I wanted to let ya know I'm keeping it in mind...)

SplineGod
04-28-2005, 08:05 PM
nickej,
A couple of things that might help...
1. Create selection sets of bones.
2. Set up your hotkeys in a way to help how you navigate hierarchies. Right now the down and up arrow keys will change selection based on the order things were created. Ive set mine up so that use a modifier key with the up and down arrown keys will select up and down a parent/child hierarchy.
3. Use bone colors to identify parts of the hiearchy.

nickej
04-28-2005, 08:20 PM
I'm certainly going to find use for these suggestions. I particularly like the idea of hiding the items that won't be useful. At the moment, since I'm going to be using cyclist to control most of the limbs, I've decided to stick with the graphical display, since a side-by-side presentation of the schematic and a perspective view will give me the ease and oversight I need. The way my creature is set up, with eleven identical segments of thirty bones each, it was a bit of a nightmare to find the right control points, but I think the graphical solution will work pretty well, since all I have to do is set up a 54-frame flap cycle that can be sped up or slowed with cyclist after it's applied to the other limbs. I'm posting a shot of the schematic layout and of the limb arrangement in 3D, so you can see the correlation.

Dodgy
04-29-2005, 03:35 AM
Oh... I thought Object Agents were related to the ID of the object. (i.e. the Object Agent would change if the ID of an item changed...)

Oopsie.

Thinking about it, there's no way to change the id's in lscript within the scene. I think you'd have to do a save/edit .lws/load thing to do this kind of function. That's why manual sort does it with a text file, so it can faff with scene files I think...

Thanks, I found a couple of bugs, but they should be fixed in the latest version. It gives you an idea of how it works anyway.

I've also figured out a way of using Id's to save object refs in the scene and it works 100%, I think, but I've yet to implement it in a plug, so I'm not sure if it works for definite :)