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lesterfoster
07-18-2004, 03:22 PM
From what I understand, TRON was the firs CG movie ever. Anyone know what they used to make the movie with?

And anyone know if there is going to be a TRON 2 movie?

Carm3D
07-18-2004, 06:41 PM
I'm sure TRON was all propriatary stuff. It was all so new back then.. No "off the shelf" software to be found.

There was a videogame called "Tron 2.0" which was pretty sweet. I heard a rumor that Tron 3.0 is on the way.

tokyo drifter
07-18-2004, 06:52 PM
The Tron DVD has a lot of great information on the CG aspects of the film.

GCL
07-18-2004, 08:18 PM
Well, somewhere in there should be the LAST STARFIGHTER that used mainly CG for story plot. Good musical score too !


:D

dwburman
07-19-2004, 12:21 AM
I don't remember what was used to make TRON but there were two different companies with two different pieces of software who made the 3D stuff. For instance, the light cycles were made with different software than the sail ship platform thing. The DVD does have a lot of info on the making of. Just don't make my mistake and rent TRON and AI in the same weekend. Way too much neon ;)

Not all of TRON was CG. They used matte paintings and backlit cel animation.

It was an amazing feat of movie making and probably an insane undertaking as a whole. They shot on 70mm film using the same cameras used to shot Lawrence of Arabia. That's how I remember it anyway. It's probably been over a year since I saw it.

You can probably find some good info at: http://www.tron-sector.com/ That was a site that came up in a quick Google search and it looks like it's still active.

lesterfoster
07-19-2004, 01:16 AM
Originally posted by dwburman

You can probably find some good info at: http://www.tron-sector.com/ That was a site that came up in a quick Google search and it looks like it's still active.

Thanks for the link. I knew that some one here would point me in the right direction for the truth about TRON.

Here is a link to an interview with Bill Kroyer (http://www.tron-sector.com/articles/article.aspx?ID=218) who was the Director of Animation for the movie TRON.

The computer that they used was a Cray supercomputer and the Foonly F1 Computer. I wonder if today's computers are better than those computer now

Here is a closeup view of the "Guts" of the F1.
http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/Pics/FOO2.JPG
http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/Pics/FOONLEY1.JPG

:) Once agene dwburman thanks for the link

Titus
07-19-2004, 02:10 AM
Tron has less CG than you may think, most effects were optical and heavy rotoscopiyng was used.

WizCraker
07-19-2004, 05:46 PM
Rotoscoping must have been a major pain to do back then. I mean it sucks to do it now just imagine you don't have the help of the tools and computers we use now.

WizCraker
07-19-2004, 05:48 PM
Oh and about a sequel.

http://www.cinecon.com/news.php?id=0405126

http://www.ugo.com/channels/filmtv/features/tron/interview.asp

StevenDS
07-19-2004, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by lesterfoster
SNIP
http://vhost2.zfx.com/~dave/Pics/FOONLEY1.JPG
SNIP

OMG, disk packs. I am so old....

Lynx3d
07-20-2004, 04:12 AM
Hmm, i guess that computer equipment wouldn't impress anyone today...
Just read the "Foonly F1" made something like 6 MIPS, an Intel XScale (used in PDAs) apparently has ~500 MIPS...

The Cray 1/S had 160 MFLOPS, a 1GHz CPU today has like 1000 MFLOPS....

Exper
07-20-2004, 04:35 AM
Good bad old days... pioneer-days! :cool:

lesterfoster
07-20-2004, 06:44 PM
From what I have learn so far, TRON was not the first movie that had 3D animation in it. Apparently Star Wars had one or two seance in it that had 3D stuff in it. As well as West World had 3D stuff in it to. But TRON was the first movie that 3D anamation was the STAR!

MediaSig
07-21-2004, 12:16 AM
What about "Westworld" and "Futureworld"?

Westworld (1973) had some very primitive stuff in it...mostly looking like early windows screen savers....

Futureworld (1976) - the sequel to Westworld - had actually 3D rendered images of faces and hands - IN MOTION. Looked pretty cool for that time period.


Actually...I found this and quote it directly from the IMDB about Westworld:

"The first use of computer digitized images as part of a feature film (not merely monitor graphics) was the Gunslinger's point of view in Westworld. After the process was finally developed enough to produce satisfactory results, it took a mere eight hours to produce each ten seconds of Gunslinger's pixellated POV."


Hmmm...Do these count?

Greg

dwburman
07-21-2004, 07:57 AM
Are we talking 2D or 3D graphics? At any rate, other early cg in movies might include one of the Star Trek movies (2 maybe?). The TV show, the stained glass guy in speilberg's Amazing Stories TV series. The first morph was in willow. But those are all a bit later than westworld and future world.

I found this while doing a quick search. It very helpful but it does mention TRON.

It's a timeline of the History of Animation
http://shopping.animazing.com/gallery/timeline.htm

StevenDS
07-21-2004, 08:35 AM
It's possible that the first major motion picture with graphics was 2001 A Space Odyssey (1968!).
Remember the diamonds hovering over an alien planet in the middle of the journey into infinity? There are even more scenes with graphics that exist that never made it into that movie too.
http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/image.cgi?pics/jupiter12.jpg
-S

::EDIT::
Yep, .... Future World:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_graphics

Lynx3d
07-22-2004, 07:44 AM
2001: A Space Odyssey rulez :D
And i always wonder why science fiction authors are so shortsighted when choosing a year where the action should take place :P

Nemoid
07-22-2004, 01:59 PM
one of the best solutions was found by Franck Herbert the great (Dune) that placed the action in 10191 !! so he was way sure he was died at that time.

Tron has also alot of painted and composed things for example, all the moebius- designed costumes, had painted luminous fx : they were painted byhand by the Arnie Wong team i dunno if in corea or another place in Asia (sorry)
design of some pieces was by Syd mead and there was some bit of 3D stuff as well, like the data spaceships and little other.

meshmaster
07-22-2004, 02:27 PM
http://www.ibiblio.org/jmaynard/TRONcostume/

http://www.ibiblio.org/jmaynard/TRONcostume/portrait.jpg

Lynx3d
07-22-2004, 02:43 PM
Ye flippin' gods! :eek:

Carm3D
07-22-2004, 03:12 PM
Yikes.. He has camel-toe! :eek:

TSpyrison
07-22-2004, 04:06 PM
I think there is more out there than I care to see..

(Oh my eyes! My Eyes!)

lunarcamel
07-22-2004, 04:14 PM
It's like driving by a car wreck - you just have to look ;)

harlan
07-22-2004, 04:52 PM
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...

while he was at the sporting goods shop, picking up the "armor" for his costume, he should have checked out the "athletic supporter" department...hmmm...actually, if he really wanted to impress the ladies, he should use a bicycle seat instead of an athletic supporter. ;)

Emmanuel
07-23-2004, 10:26 AM
Don't want to spoil the party, but on the DVD, they clearly state that most of the cel painting job was outsourced to Asia, because it was way cheaper.Sounds familiar ?
Sidenote: the work they got back from Asia had a little problem, the single sheets unfortunately were glueing together, because the contractors in Asia were in such a hurry that they did not let the paint dry long enough ;)

Aegis
07-23-2004, 01:23 PM
I posted this recently on CGTalk:


Not on the wall at the moment (I'm in the process of moving) but this is my most prized piece of wall art:

http://www.agmorgan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Tron.png

It's an original b&w Kodalith from Tron - these were blow-ups from the film stock which were then duped and hand-painted over in multiple layers to colour the characters and add visual fx - it's numbered and has the animation table peg holes in the bottom - I got an art gallery to frame it for me. It's a nice reminder of the film that got me hooked on this business. I'm hoping to get Bruce Boxleitner to autograph it if I get the chance...
:)

tokyo drifter
07-23-2004, 02:03 PM
I am so jealous. How much did that cost, if you don't mind me asking?

StevenDS
07-23-2004, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
Yikes.. He has camel-toe! :eek:
That's technically known in scientific circles as "boy camel toe"

yuuughhh...

Aegis
07-24-2004, 03:29 AM
I am so jealous. How much did that cost, if you don't mind me asking?

This'll make you cry - I got it on eBay from a collector who has many of these cels - cost me $60 - the framing cost me double that for a grand total of $180 - a tiny price to pay for a piece of cinema (and 3D) history...

The Animation Art Gallery (who framed it for me) has one for sale here (http://www.animaart.com/disney/tron.htm) but it's WAAAY more expensive than mine (and IMHO not as nice :)). If you look around you should be able to find them for sale - somewhere in the region of 77,000 of them were produced for the film :cool:


That's technically known in scientific circles as "boy camel toe"

Also known as the "Ninja Toe" or "Forward Front Bottom" :D

lesterfoster
07-27-2004, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Titus
Tron has less CG than you may think, most effects were optical and heavy rotoscopiyng was used.


Originally posted by WizCraker
Rotoscoping must have been a major pain to do back then. I mean it sucks to do it now just imagine you don't have the help of the tools and computers we use now.

What is Rotoscoping?:confused:

archiea
07-27-2004, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
Yikes.. He has camel-toe! :eek:

its more like the camel cigarette ad, but for really tiny cigarettes!!!!

tokyo drifter
07-27-2004, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by lesterfoster
What is Rotoscoping?:confused: Sorry, I can't help you. If only there was a site on the internet that would let you search for stuff. And it would need a short, easy to remember name. Maybe it would start with a 'g', that's a good letter. Maybe I'll get lucky and find such a site one day (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=Rotoscoping&btnG=Search).

BeeVee
07-28-2004, 03:16 AM
If you have LW8 look in the online manual at the glossary of 3D terms for rotoscoping...

B

Nemoid
07-28-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by Emmanuel
Don't want to spoil the party, but on the DVD, they clearly state that most of the cel painting job was outsourced to Asia, because it was way cheaper.Sounds familiar ?
Sidenote: the work they got back from Asia had a little problem, the single sheets unfortunately were glueing together, because the contractors in Asia were in such a hurry that they did not let the paint dry long enough ;)

exactly i read the same !! pioneer an pain in the ***** years for sfx producers... :D

incidentally i also read that the movie was a real flop despite a great advertisement campaign, and huge money investments on its production.So alot of people was fired by Disney afer this failure.

3D|Dave
07-28-2004, 02:20 PM
The software was either Alias or Wavefront (Before they merged and became Alias Wavefront). It cost some $300,000 at the time!

lesterfoster
07-28-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by 3D|Dave
The software was either Alias or Wavefront (Before they merged and became Alias Wavefront). It cost some $300,000 at the time!


Is this true? As far as I know. MAYA is one of the newer kids on the 3D block. But LightWAVE is one of the older kids on the 3D block.:confused:

lesterfoster
07-28-2004, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by Nemoid

incidentally i also read that the movie was a real flop despite a great advertisement campaign, and huge money investments on its production.So alot of people was fired by Disney afer this failure.

I do not consider TRON to be a failure. If it was than how did I get to where I am to day. TRON is one of my favorite movies of all time. And has a lot to do with me becoming a independent video producer and 3D animator.

If Disney fired the people who made TRON, than they fired there best people.

Too bad for Disney.:mad:

Nemoid
07-29-2004, 09:36 AM
I don't consider Tron to be a failure at all too.

Jeez, I LOVE that movie. :)

Unfortunately Disney was not of the same opinion at the time. People didn't go and watch that movie especially here in Italy. Maybe it was a bit early for people to fully understand it.

And, unfortunately, really alot of people were fired.

But these are old things. Tron is here however, it's a d&&n cool movie wich i'd recommend to everyone for sure.

The original idea rocks, design , costumes and sfx rock as well, and on the other hand Disney is collapsing a bit too in latest times. :D

As u can see facts speak for themselves. :)

Titus
07-29-2004, 11:18 AM
Well, the project was a nightmare. You will not find anyone who has good memories working on Tron.

lesterfoster
07-30-2004, 12:14 AM
Shur If you were part of a team that created the future, and you got fired for it just because it did not make a profit. You would have no good memories working on it.

I don't make much money at making videos, but if I only did it to make money, I would have nothing to show for my self.

NanoGator
08-02-2004, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by StevenDS
[B]It's possible that the first major motion picture with graphics was 2001 A Space Odyssey (1968!).
Remember the diamonds hovering over an alien planet in the middle of the journey into infinity? There are even more scenes with graphics that exist that never made it into that movie too.
http://www.palantir.net/cgi-bin/image.cgi?pics/jupiter12.jpg


In case anybody's curious, the '3d graphics' of objects rotating on computer screens were not, in fact, rendered in 3D. They were hand-traced from several photos of primitive objects on a rotating stand. (Not a rebuttal, just an FYI. :))

John Fornasar
08-02-2004, 08:48 PM
Cinefex #85 (April 2001 issue) has about 40 pages on the making of 2001. You might be able to get a back copy.