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prospector
07-09-2004, 07:00 AM
Why is it me finding them??

Here it is.

Am using the JointMorph tool.

Make a segmented box
add 2 bones to bend (like an arm)
make a morph (like listed in the PDF)
use the joint morph tool like listed in PDF
move points like listed in PDF
Reset bone like listed in PDF


Works good hu?
Just like it's suppose to

Now do same thing using 2 directions for bone (like a shoulder would normally bend). Out and foreward,up and back,down and foreward.....
Any directions any amount.

After making the morph..TRY TO RESET BONES like listed in PDF!!!
Can't hu?

What's up with that?

And watch the little bone handles, they end up completly different when you go back to them to reset the bone after making morph.

What's up with that???

nerdyguy227
07-12-2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by prospector
Why is it me finding them??


What's up with that???

As soon as I read your subject, I was going to ask you the same thing

theo
07-12-2004, 12:24 PM
You're not the only one finding them... You may be the only one reporting them.

I have found many bugs but just don't take the time to record or report them. Mainly I just suffer through them and plug along with minor adjustments to my workflow.

Exper
07-12-2004, 12:40 PM
Please guys...
report all the bugs you encounter...
let them know for a better new LW! ;)

[email protected]

Chris S. (Fez)
07-12-2004, 01:07 PM
I have hardly used 8 and have been discovering loads of bugs too. Just yesterday I discovered

1) Lightwave will likely crash when you delete a SoftFX deformer from an object.

2) G2 and transparency are broken in 8. The same scene loads and renders fine in 7.5.

3) if you delete morphmixer and add a new one, the new one inherits the old keyframes...this last one might not be a bug but it makes no sense as a feature. If I wanted an exact copy of a deformer I would copy the deformer and paste it.

The features in 8 are clunky and incomplete except for Ortho tools, which could use some undos. It feels and acts like I am working with a Beta.

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 01:23 PM
Fez,
Nuber 3 is not and never ought to be dealt with as a bug.
It works this way because sometimes you make a new endo and want it included in layout. All you have to do to get it in there, since it won't show up automatically, is to delete and re-add morphmixer. This way, the workflow of your animating isn't broken and hours of work aren't lost.

2. Huh? Works fine here. Best to describe what's broke about it.

1. Nope. It doesn't. At least not here.

I haven't used the tool you complain of, Prospector, but do make sure you send it to the bug address, properly addressed as a "LW Bug". I did this this morn and immediately got a response from the minder of the address: Deuce.

They are listening as long as there is something to listen to.

Chris S. (Fez)
07-12-2004, 02:13 PM
"All you have to do to get it in there, since it won't show up automatically, is to delete and re-add morphmixer."

This makes no sense to me. It is justifying a limitation of Layout. If you want your new endomorphs to show up, there should be a "reload endomorphs" button added to the interface. If you create a NEW endomorph mixer it should be just that, NEW, without any keyframes.

"Huh? Works fine here. Best to describe what's broke about it."

Have you tried rendering overlapping transparency-mapped polygons in Lightwave 8 with G2 and a raytrace shadow light? The transparent parts are darkened. The same scene renders fine in 7.5.

"Nope. It doesn't. At least not here."
Sorry, I forgot one step: Adding the SoftFX back onto the object. Maybe it is my machine but please try this just so I know
1) load an object into Layout
2) add soft FX
3) under the operator menu, select any weight map or surface under the Operator1Map
4) Right click on SoftFX and select remove
5) now add another SoftFX...do you crash?

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 03:37 PM
I own FPrime - lots of lw limitations are being accepted by me. That doesn't mean I can't get work done.

I can't say that it's justifying as much as recognizing to get what I want from my software of choice. And to be honest, this makes all kinds of sense: the endo is not part of the scene, yet. And because lw loads your object into memory, it doesn't pick up the changes made to the object on hd.
In the past, I might have agreed with you. But now that I've used this setup on a few projets, it really does make sense in the scheme of things.

No G2 so can't check that one. I do believe someone's mentioned something to that effect on the Worley list but didn't follow it.

"Boom" goes softfx by folowing your steps. Now, go send that puppy to that email address above as an evil bug.

Believe me when I say: I am as keen as the rest to have a bug free lw version. Free from all the legacy bugs and EVERYTHING that would leave some to call it "Beta Released Software".

Chris S. (Fez)
07-12-2004, 04:06 PM
"I can't say that it's justifying as much as recognizing to get what I want from my software of choice."

OK. Fair enough. But please allow that along with workflow advantages to this new Morphmixer behavior, there are also some disadvantages. Wouldn't a "reload endomorphs" button offer us both what we want? What if I have animated a scene and want to rerender with a completely different sequence of phonemes? What if I want to add a morphmixer merely to test smartskin deformations? The way it is now I have to load Morphmixer and delete all the curves. It makes more sense to me that I would just have to load a NEW morphmixer. But I am pummelling a dead pony here.

"That doesn't mean I can't get work done."

I never said I can't get work done, but I will say Lightwave 8 is buggy enough that it is getting in the way of my work. Of course the hours saved by the new rigging tools compensate considerably.

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 04:30 PM
Just cuz I'm avoiding work, once again....

{As he kicks the horse on the way by...}

I agree. But the present workflow actually works well. Or, mayhaps, I've set up my workflow to work well with the constraints I'm given.

You know, Chuck's touting this new MorphMixer in another thread. "Get on there and share your thoughts", would be my suggestion.

The scenario you've shared is my situation. ;) And going to the graph editor (one click) to select all keys (zero to two-keypresses), and pressing delete is not as tedious as it reads.

I know you never said that but it was the Strawman to be dealt with at the time. ;)

Carm3D
07-12-2004, 04:39 PM
You could use brute force to make this resetting work by using a reset bone. I use them all the time.

1. Clone your upper-arm bone while it's at it's rest position.

2. Shrink the new bone to a tiny size like 20mm, give it a bone strength of 0%

3. Parent your upper arm bone to your new clone.

Since your upper arm bone is going off in the same direction as it's little parent, the rest rotation is 0,0,0. Pretty easy to reset rotations this way, eh?

brap
07-12-2004, 04:39 PM
We are going on 3 months now since the LW8 "pre-release" started shipping. And personally, I'd feel a lot more confident with what is happening if there was an effort on Newtek's behalf to respond to the bug issues that people raise here and on the other forums. A lot of time and effort goes into testing these bugs and sending the results to support. That's time taken away from making a living, and it's work that merits acknowledgment. I don't want to be spammed with customer surveys, just a little "thanks, yeah we verified that and are working to fix it ASAP" would be nice.

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 04:54 PM
You don't get that? {Notice of receipt of a bug report}

If not, I would suggest in the future that you make sure your subject says something about "Bug" as it's been stated that the email address is spammed heavily.

Believe me: an irate-that-there's-a-bug, perfectionist is manning the email address and he is ... doing what he can to get things straight, I'm sure.

brap
07-12-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by UnCommonGrafx
You don't get that? {Notice of receipt of a bug report}

If not, I would suggest in the future that you make sure your subject says something about "Bug" as it's been stated that the email address is spammed heavily.

That's a good tip. No, I never have received a bug report receipt, although I'm not sure what I put in the subject line. Can anyone confirm what needs to be in there to avoid Spam filtering?

I use LW everyday, and the new features in 8 are such time savers that I can't go back to 7.5. But issues like the blank windows bug need to be cleared up quickly.

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 05:19 PM
Deuce said this elsewhere:

From: "Deuce" <[email protected]>
Date: Sat Jul 3, 2004 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: [LW] New Scene Editor - For Newtek's Ears.

It'd just be easier to email lwfeatures at NewTek dot com

Or me directly -- Deuce at NewTek dot com

But all I please ask -- if you do sent it to me directly -- please put "FEATURE" or "BUG" in the subject line. I do get so much spam.


~~Deuce

prospector
07-12-2004, 07:46 PM
Before I report any bugs, I ask this;

How do we know a bug IS a bug ??

In my example above that started this thread

Is it a bug or is it a feature request to have them reset when using multiple directions?

What I am saying is was the tool ONLY made to work in 1 rotation, or was it made to do any rotations to get the right morphs.

Maby I am using the tool in a way it's not intended and therefore NOT a bug.

So someone could be getting all this e-mail about bugs that aren't not necessarily bugs, which would make programmers take time out from thier normal duties to check things that need no checking.


So I would ask....is there someone in Newtek somewhere in the chain of command that knows what the plugins written for LW are and aren't suppose to do? Not a programmer..just someone who has a list of all the plug-ins, and what they do or not do, so that reported bugs go thru him/her first, and if really a bug then forwarded onto programmers, or come onto threads like this and just say it isn't a bug but it would go into the column of 'Feature Requests'.


And Why aren't BETA testers finding these during the Beta period???????

Between this and the other thread about this tool and putting morphs on every point in an object even tho they are no way affected by the morph, that's 2 things so far with 1 tool and I haven't really started working it for all it's worth yet.

theo
07-12-2004, 07:54 PM
Yeah that's right. That is pretty much why I just cannot get excited about running down every perceived bug.

I know for a fact that there are several nasty bugs I deal with but in my way of thinking if you are going to report a bug then some research and serious recording of pertinent details are going to have to be done to really do a bug report justice so programmers aren't wasting valuable time chasing down every stupid little complaint.

This research and serious recording is not something I have time for sooooo the bugs crawl as they may in and out of my interface like so many little roaches.

UnCommonGrafx
07-12-2004, 08:59 PM
Well said, Theo.

My life, too.

This research and serious recording is not something I have time for sooooo the bugs crawl as they may in and out of my interface like so many little roaches.

policarpo
07-12-2004, 10:44 PM
yeah....it's tuff...

:confused:

theo
07-12-2004, 11:02 PM
Hmmm.... Policarpo, I would say that a zero K .lws file is actually quite feature"less".

Para
07-13-2004, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by prospector
Before I report any bugs, I ask this;

How do we know a bug IS a bug ??

It's a bug when it either destroys something (the object/scene file or just crashes the program) or just doesn't seem to work the way it supposed to do (refer to manual to see how it's supposed to work if it doesn't work like you think it should).


And Why aren't BETA testers finding these during the Beta period???????


Because - in my not so humble opinion - they suck at what they do. Apparently most of the beta testers are old LW users who are used to work with the bugs and they just don't get them since bug prevention is part of their workflow.

PS. If I understood the actual description of the bug, this is an old one, at least for me...or, at least for LW-fin buglist.

geoff3dnz
07-13-2004, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by UnCommonGrafx
You don't get that? {Notice of receipt of a bug report} Nope, nor do I. Sent the report to [email protected], put BUG in the title, I have no idea if anyone has read it or not. :confused:

Actually, while I'm here, I may as well get you guys to confirm it: ;)

Open modeller. Make an object. DON'T save it. Attempt to quit Modeller. You should get the 'object not saved, do you want to save it?' requester. Hit 'escape' on your keyboard to 'cancel' the requester and return to modeller. Boom. Modeller gone.

This is inconsistent with the escape key functionality of Layout (and almost all other apps), where escape does 'cancel' the requester.

prospector
07-13-2004, 06:45 AM
re-read it again
doesn't say NOT to rotate bones in 2 directions, but doesn't say you can either...sssooooo

is it a bug?

I would think it should work in 2 directions, but I didn't code it.



I think Beta testers work for 'in production' companies so they probably don't have the time to do bug chasing.


But then again, if people like me Beta tested, then another ver of LW would never get out till all bugs were gone;)