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JReble
06-29-2004, 12:46 PM
I'm havin a few problems here so I'll ask for some confirmation on a few things....

I've got TPMGenc installed, (or at least copied to my hard drive as I didn't use the installer version) and I have run the third party support installer so the VT3 recognizes it. Why is that needed anyway if I'm gonna load a T3 timeline wrapped as an avi?

Anywho...to encode the wrapped AVI to mpeg properly does the toaster editor need to be opened and have the timeline in question loaded or should it be closed to free up resources? If T3 can be closed entirely during the encoding process, how does the wrapped AVI rectify sections that need rendering via force render? I'm just wondering about all of this since TMPG has dumped back to the desktop on me a couple times when trying to encode to an mpeg 1 file. Granted I'm using the free version so far.

After making an mpeg1 video MPG file succesfully, I notice that it won't play properly on my system. Windows media player only plays audio, others only video and never both. Of the players that play the video (these are dvd player apps) they all play the video zoomed in such that 25% of the video image is not visible around the perimeter.

Also, upon first installation of tmpeg it said the mpeg 2 function has expired so I can't even try that for now. I'll be happy to buy the full version as soon as I can get it to encode once.

While we're at it, can anyone recommend a good hardware solution for mpeg2 encoding? Can one of these be placed in the same machine with the toaster? I've been pretty happy recording component out to an external Panasonic DVD recorder and it's realtime too, but lately I'd like to make a few actual mastered disks with custom menus.

ScorpioProd
06-29-2004, 09:32 PM
I'll try and answer some of these for you, in order. :)

You want the third-party plug-in since that is the BETTER way to put a project into TMPGEnc. The AVI Wrapper is NOT the best way to do it. There are a number of reasons for this, first of all a true native plug-in is inherintly better and more efficient than a "generic" AVI Wrapper. Second, if you are using the AVI Wrapper, you will have to render out a wav of your project for audio, since AVI Wrapper's compressed audio isn't compatible with a good number of programs, including TMPGEnc. While the plug-in will correctly supply audio to TMPGEnc automatically.

NO VT module should be open while you are running TMPGEnc, it needs all your computer's power to work, having the VT open will interfere with it. Rendering of force render is actually no issue at all, since 100% of what you are doing is "effectively" a render at that point, basically it's a frame server operation, which can take as long as it needs to to complete.

I don't know what limitations are in the free version, or how well it works with the plug-in.

Remember that with the TMPGEnc plug-in OR with the AVI Wrapper, you MUST manually crop the bottom six lines in TMPGEnc since the VT is giving it a 486 line file which it isn't used to dealing with and isn't what it wants to work with.

TMPGEnc is a great program, and well worth the $48.

As for hardware solutions, I know of none that do true 2-pass VBR at any reasonable price point.

For your current real-time solution, you should be able to rip the DVD in DVD Workshop 2.0 and do your authoring without needing to re-encode the MPEG. (This feature is there, though I haven't personally used it.)

JReble
06-30-2004, 08:53 AM
Thanks a lot Eugene. So to utilize the plugin does one only need to run the third party support program and then use TPMG normally and select the avi file that I wrapped for encoding?

It seems that I am successful doing this, but you are correct that the audio is missing unless I create a seperate wav and pull it in there. Also, what is involved in striping the extra 6 lines to 480? I encoded a 720x486 timeline wrapped as an avi ok today and I didn't do anything about the extra lines. Does TMPG do that in the encoding process or is there something I need to do?

Man I wish Newtek would make a better way for this. The first one I did, I rendered my entire timeline out as a DV type 2 file and then used ulead to author that as a DVD. That worked and I didn't need to make a seperate audio track but I did end up converting it twice. We really really need a way to simply render the timeline out to a file or files suitable for use in an authoring program. Why go through all of this?

Jim_C
06-30-2004, 12:55 PM
Imo, it is as straight forward as you can get without directly rendering the timeline to mpeg2.

I just save my project as a normal VT-Edit project, start TMPGEnc, then load the actual VT-Edit file and render away. No avi wrapper or rendering to a large file.


Yes, you have to clip the bottom 6 lines in TMPGEnc. Just choose clip frame from advanced options that snip off the bottom 6.

Tom Wood
06-30-2004, 12:58 PM
Hi Jim,

When did you download Patch 3? Mine is only two weeks old, and TMPGEnc appears to be doing that 6 pixel clipping automatically. I load a 720x486 TED project and the advanced options panel says it's getting a 720x480. If I clip 6 off, it says the end result will be 720x474. I'm wondering if there was a stealth version to the patch, or I'm missing something.

TW

JReble
06-30-2004, 01:07 PM
Ok so maybe I'm making this more difficult that it needs to be. In light of little to no clear documentation on the matter, let me confirm what I'm hearing then.

I can simply save my Toaster edit project as a normal TED project and exit VT3.

Then I run TMPGenc (which has had the 3rd party support installed) and I can actually select the TED project file and TMPG will read a video and audio stream from the TED project. (I don't need a seperately rendered wav file?)

Then I need to tell TMPG to clip 6 lines in the advanced settings as you mentioned and it will make two files upon encoding, a m2v or something like that, and a wav file. Both of these will then be used to author the final DVD in another program.

Is all that right? After re-reading Eugene's post I'm starting to think the AVI wrapper is not to be used, but I should do the above procedure instead. Am I on the right track? It must be Monday where I'm at. :rolleyes:

mcabery
06-30-2004, 03:04 PM
Now you're getting it! You do not need avi wrapper, just load the VTEdit project and away it goes.... You need to set it up to export the type of files your authoring app needs, such as m2v and wav.... It works really well and looks great.

Good Luck!

ScorpioProd
06-30-2004, 03:30 PM
Yes, do NOT use the AVI Wrapper at all for this. Save a normal VT-Edit project and with the plug-in TMPGEnc will read that.

Yes, you have to tell TMPGEnc what you want it to generate for you, like selecting the mv2 and wav elementary streams.

As for clipping the lines, I know of no changes to the patch, but if the clipping panel says it is already 720X480, don't clip it, but if it says 720X486 as it does for me, clip the bottom six lines.

Here's the links to my article and the other one again, for advice on all the other TMPGEnc settings, though you should always do the separate m2v and wav now and encode AC-3 in your authoring program:

http://www.professionaleventvideo.com/tmpdirections.htm

http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

JReble
06-30-2004, 05:37 PM
Thanks again all. I think I've got it under control now. Still I think what most people have difficulty with, especially me, is how drawn out the process is for making dvds. Not Newteks fault I know, they provided that tmpg plugin which makes it considerably easier once you know how to use it. In our point and click world these days it's hard to get used to actually knowing what your doin' again! :D

ScorpioProd
06-30-2004, 08:18 PM
If it was easy then we'd be out of a job...

BTW, I recommend specialized programs for each task, since they will individually be the best:

1) VT-Edit for editing.
2) TMPGEnc for MPEG-2 encoding.
3) DVD Workshop 2.0 for authoring and AC-3 encoding.
4) RecordNow Max 4.5 for burning.

EWK

JReble
07-01-2004, 07:28 AM
I installed the new trial of TMPG and the MPEG2 function is working for the trial period so I've tried that now. Yeah I'm using TMPG for encoding and DVD workshop for authoring, but I was also letting DVD workshop burn as well and it seems to work fine. (suppose results will vary with different burners drives) I have been trying out the tmpg authoring program as well to see how that works. I like that I can move around my menu chapter icons and text but I don't think it will let me put music on my menu. DVD workshop will allow music in the menus, but I haven't figured out how or if I can move my chapter icons in the menus. Every template or custom menu seems to lock the location(s) of the chapter icons and I'd really like to place them where I want. Got any ideas on that?

ScorpioProd
07-01-2004, 03:09 PM
DVD Workshop can burn fine, it's just when you want more advanced features real burn programs are better. Like burning to four drives at a time like I do. Also, only burn programs support verification after burning, which I always do on all my DVDs.

As for moving chapter icons and text, DVD Workshop is fully customizeable. Just read the manual, it's all in there. :)

Actually, it's as easy as clicking and dragging, unless you're using the wizard, of course. In which case you need to convert to a standard menu first.

ScorpioProd
07-02-2004, 12:12 AM
OK, guess what...

If your Patch 3 is relatively new, you may not need to clip the 6 lines from the bottom of VT-Edit projects dropped into TMPGEnc, the plug-in will automatically do it for you! So if it shows 480 in the clipping panel, you have the newest one. If it shows 486, you need to clip.

Also note, IF you don't have to clip the 6 lines from the bottom, that also means your field order in TMPGEnc will be TOP FIELD FIRST instead of BOTTOM FIELD FIRST which it is with the "older" Patch 3 plug-in.

NOW I understand why some users reported their fielding was the reverse of what I found...

But do the fielding test that I've repeated endlessly just to be sure.

Tom Wood
07-02-2004, 06:28 AM
Heh, I wondered about that.

Eugene - I bought DVD Workshop AC-3 some time ago and I'm just now getting to use it. They didn't upgrade the manual at the time, the only new documentation was an orange sticker on the box. The CD itself says AC-3 but the manual makes no mention of it. Now ULead has moved on to 2.0 and all the downloads are for that.

All the articles you reference say render video only in TMPGEnc. Do you render a single WAV out of VT3 and drop it into DVD Workshop AC-3?

Thanks,

TW

Scott Bates
07-02-2004, 06:54 AM
Do you render a single WAV out of VT3 and drop it into DVD Workshop AC-3?
No Tom, just have TMPGEnc use your VT[3] Project file, set it to encode elementry streams and you will get both a video file and an audio file to take into DVD Workshop.

ScorpioProd
07-02-2004, 01:13 PM
Yes, what Scott said, and be sure you set the audio elementary stream in TMGPENc to be linear PCM audio.

Then you bring the wav in as a "replacement audio file" in DVD Workshop 1.3 AC-3.

Videonut
07-07-2004, 10:39 PM
"If your Patch 3 is relatively new, you may not need to clip the 6 lines from the bottom of VT-Edit projects dropped into TMPGEnc, the plug-in will automatically do it for you! So if it shows 480 in the clipping panel, you have the newest one. If it shows 486, you need to clip."

I just downloaded the most current patch off the website yesterday and when I drop a VT Edit project into TMPGEnc and look at the clipping panel, it still shows 720 X 486. Am I missing something here

ScorpioProd
07-08-2004, 01:44 AM
Did you re-install the third-party plug-ins?

Videonut
07-08-2004, 10:38 AM
Yes I did. I just went and updated the TMPGEnc to the latest version and re-installed the 3rd party plug-ins and I still get the same thing. Just a little background, I use the TMPGEnc Plus 2.5 version and purchased the license. Is there another version that people are using that would make the difference?

ScorpioProd
07-08-2004, 11:46 AM
Hmmh. Don't know what to tell you.

Well, clipping the six lines isn't really that much trouble. ;)

Tom Wood
07-20-2004, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd
Yes, what Scott said, and be sure you set the audio elementary stream in TMGPENc to be linear PCM audio.

Then you bring the wav in as a "replacement audio file" in DVD Workshop 1.3 AC-3.

Okay, did all that but when I get to the FINISH page in DVD Workshop 1.3 AC-3, it complains that I'm making an MPEG that isn't really DVD standard. But then it works and seems to play okay. Is there a place to set DVD Workshop 1.3 -to- AC-3 so this message goes away?

Thanks,

TW

Scott Bates
07-20-2004, 10:24 AM
My system's tied up right now Tom, but when you get to Finish you need to set up a Custom template and select AC-3 as the output audio format. You can also set up new AC-3 templates somewhere in the the options before you start.

Tom Wood
07-20-2004, 12:12 PM
Got it, thanks Scott.

TW

BTW, I even emailed ULEAD to try to get documentation, they emailed me back a link to a PDF of the the manual I have that doesn't mention AC-3 at all. :rolleyes:

So I did TRY to RTFM!