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Samus
06-17-2004, 03:13 PM
Soft Bodie Dynamics (SBD) in LW 8.

TO get a rather proper SBD in Lightwave , you have to wake up
early,suffer all day to get frustrated at the end of the day.But
then came LW 8,Very Promising but then again...Not it yet.
However we are blessed with a great tool that is FX METALINK.
So until LW8 get's a SYFLEX plugin like most Highend package,
Here is a trick i found something like 48h ago. just a little contribution to the Lw Community. I hope it helps. Samus

Samus
06-17-2004, 03:14 PM
PAGE 2.

Samus
06-17-2004, 03:14 PM
Last Page.

Samus
06-17-2004, 03:17 PM
better JPG.

Samus
06-17-2004, 03:26 PM
Zip file for further Observation.
Have fun,this work's for sleeves,shirt pants and More...
C&C welcomed.


Samus:D

HowardM
06-17-2004, 03:46 PM
SWEET!
:D
How did you figure that out?

Samus
06-17-2004, 03:55 PM
i guess a lot of frustration...but never giving up is part of it.
Maybe also because Syflex is so fast and accurate that i wished
Lw had as good.I even posted a letter to syflex, they replied
there trying to touch as many software as they can.But promesses are not an answer... so this is( at least a break from
frustration.) LW 8 is great,will get better,in the mean time
it answers many problematics when you dig into it.

Samus

Robi
06-17-2004, 04:33 PM
Hey, this is looking very cool, thanks a lot, I will try this tomorrow. :cool:

ghopper
06-17-2004, 04:36 PM
Thanks for sharing this ;)

Samus
06-17-2004, 05:04 PM
you also could invert the constrain inward , but outward is best.
combinations of horizontal and vertical polychain is also possible for greater effects.

i'm sure the community will find derived version of this technic.
all you need now is to model your cloth with it's folds and take
every segment (paralel or vertical) and make them Polychains.
you'll get a nice secondary motion that SBD gives.

hmm ...how should i call it... Polychain SBD??
i like it ...C&C are welcomed.

Samus:D

HowardM
06-17-2004, 05:09 PM
LSCRIPT!
:D

Samus
06-17-2004, 05:30 PM
i wish!! i do not script but i'm sure the community can give a hand,
or some guy at newtek.From what i've seen it's totaly doable.

wishlist woud be ...custom constrain size control interface for looser SBD.

polychain creation base on cloth object shape etc....

Any Lscript GURU ready to make this possibility a reality.
great Proton do you not know someone at newtek???
like Daisuke INO( Motion designer Creator ) or anybody....

hrgiger
06-17-2004, 09:03 PM
great work Samus.

ncr100
06-17-2004, 11:02 PM
Apologies in advance for my naive question, but what is this technique good for?

Thanks in advance, Nick

Samus
06-17-2004, 11:21 PM
1.speed up softbody dynamics.

2.stop trambling effects that MD does on cloth when collision
object is idle.

3.higher control over calculation hasard (when your SBD cloth
blows up because it did'nt correctly calculate folds.)

it's not perfect,but you will get SBD running fast,for shirts
pants , bellys, wiggling Cheeks etc...

skarab
06-18-2004, 07:12 AM
as if syflex are ever going to port to lw, it costs more than lightwave itself

Samus
06-18-2004, 07:35 AM
I sent them a mail, a while ago, what they said i recall was that
there trying to touch as many package as they can.Of course
this is quite generic an answer and of course 2,200.00 Dollars is bigtime Money,but maya 6 unlimited is $6,999.00 a little
less than 1/3 of the package price,if your a small studio,this is investement that you can tackle with couple of Deals. So for lightwave ( $1595.00 )
this applies.

anyway , Lw is cheap compare to this,the Polychain SBD trick is free and with very little pain to setup.

Good luck.

Samus:D

pooby
06-18-2004, 09:31 AM
This is what I got from Syflex

Yes, we have plans to port our software to Lightwave.
But I can't announce anything right now, so stay tuned !

Samus
06-18-2004, 11:57 AM
exacly,Thanks pooby
...until then, Fx Cloth and trick's of the trade
is what we have,so lets burn some brain cels on the tricks.

Samus :D

Exper
06-18-2004, 12:07 PM
Great tip Samus!


Originally posted by pooby
This is what I got from Syflex

Yes, we have plans to port our software to Lightwave.
But I can't announce anything right now, so stay tuned ! Hey... guys... great news! :cool: :cool: :cool:

Samus
06-20-2004, 02:24 PM
This is a Small update of the Polychain SBD trick,
It's a combination of inward and outward constraint
on the multiple SBD chains.This gives you more control
over the freedom of the cloth.

note that horizontal and vertical are also possible
for desired effects.

Samus :D

GregMalick
07-19-2004, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by Samus
i wish!! i do not script but i'm sure the community can give a hand, What do you want the LScript to do? Create the poly chain in Modeler? :confused:

Samus
07-19-2004, 01:09 PM
Hi All,Hi GregMalick,

The Polychain sbd Trick can be long to process on high polycount
geometries.

What i wished an Lscript would do is:

- Based on the supposed cloth object, create the polychain
in a horizontal or vertical way.

- create the constrains( 2 pts poly) on each points of the
polychain , sizable, settable inward or outward of the
polychain.

-all that based on point selections or polygon selections.

-In modeler should be a little easyer than Layout i think.

i know it's a lot, but i'm sure guy's like Richard Brak or other
Experienced Lscript gurus can help.

I'm glad your interested in the lscript concept of the SBD Trick.:)

Thanks.

Samus:D

GregMalick
07-19-2004, 05:07 PM
Samus,

I actually think I can do this, but I'd need to discuss more details. Maybe we can link up on IM or ICQ and talk. That way I'll be clear on what you want. I actually have some ideas of my own... like do we need all those 2-point polys, or would it work and calc better with every other one.

Send me a PM or email and I'll check tonite when I get home.:)

tudor
07-20-2004, 02:24 AM
This seems a bit like SoftFX works, but with proper cloth calculations and not the sine curve 'jello' effect.

Way cool! :D

Samus
07-21-2004, 03:25 AM
hi all,

thanks Tudor.

GregMalick ,i'de be glad to develop this with you,But it seems
that i will have too little time for myself since work seems to
take most of my time,However in about two weeks i should
available.

Until then...feel free to start the Lscript.

Samus...lightwaver :D

GregMalick
07-21-2004, 10:07 AM
I pretty much have it done. Creating the cage, that is. I just want to put some sliders in so numbers don't have to be typed in. And It's only built for a cylindrical shape, so a flat shape and custom selection would be nice additions. Couple of weeks waiting isn't a problem. When you're available we'll fix it up.

aloha,

Bytehawk
07-21-2004, 05:36 PM
looking forward to this.

thanks for your time.

Samus
08-05-2004, 12:40 AM
Hi all,

Was i not Surprised this morning!!!:D :D :D ...

i was taking a look on flay before going to work this morning ...and then it Hit ME!!!

Fast Cloth!!! for Lightwave, i was like WooHOO!! :D
But Was i not Stunned!!! when i discovered that it was
based on the Polychain SBD thread your reading now.

Was it you GregMalick = Colin Cohen ??? Cause i have'nt tryed the Plugin but I'm so Pleased it's now a dot p (*.p) Extension.

Anyways i'm running to test it.

Thank's For the Plug Colin!!!!
Lw has a really cool Community :p

Samus


:D :D :D

tudor
08-05-2004, 01:06 AM
This is more than cool!
Someone get in touch with newtek. They need to include this in 8.1 :D

(I wonder if you can include this directly in layout without the modeler steps.. Like I said before, it looks like softFX, but with better motion. Not that sine curve falloff)

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 01:06 AM
Not me... I was waiting for SAmus to get back to me. Mine is an LScript. But hey, if this better...I'll have to check it out.:)

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 01:21 AM
But since we're sharing... this is what I had for modeler...
It's just a work in progress, but you can see the way I was going with it. I'm kinda having problems with the plane configuration part. But it's still kinda cool. No DOCS.

tudor
08-05-2004, 01:46 AM
I can't seem to get the plug to stay on a menu.. Every time I reload moder the plug is gone and I have to add it to the menu again. It is still loaded as a plug though. It never happened to me before with any other plug..

Anyone else experiencing this?

colkai
08-05-2004, 05:10 AM
I've had this with other LScript plugins.
I don't know why, sometimes they stick, other times I have to reload them and reassign keys/menu locations.
Frustrating but I can't figure out what causes it. :(

Castius
08-05-2004, 07:42 AM
it's been reported as a bug. what ever app you open first, layout or modeler is the only one that will save the plugins added. So if you want to add a modeler plugin open modeler first.

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 09:03 AM
Here's some explaination for the above "SBD" LSCRIPT.

1. Ring Plane is the most important. It is the major plane that the object's center-line traverses... in the picture Z is the correct plane to choose.

2. Paste into Layer - it defaults into the first empty layer. I don't know why I made this chooseable... because I could, I guess.

3. Create Selection Sets... Good for tweaking the radius/length after exiting the plugin. Otherwise you need to select by hand :mad:

4. Use Layer Number in Selection Set Name... useful only when creating multiple cages in different layers.

IMPORTANT: You need to select the geometric type that best approximates the form. Cap & Bowl are just half versions of the sphere, but the center points are properly set at their bottom/top.
Plane is only working for the Z-Ring Plane... I'm having problems figuring this one out.

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 09:30 AM
After pressing OK comes the fun part:

Based upon Samus' model I designed the following.

1. Cage radius allows you to dynamically alter the Ring's radius
2. Poly Length (even) allows you to set the length of what I call the "spike".
When LINK is on, the odd/even sliders follow each other
3. When FREE is on... you can set alternate lengths of the "spikes"
4. FLIP is a button that flips the odd/even spike values
5. Auto FLIP allows the automatic flipping of odd/even values as you create a Ring
6. Alternate Row Values will pick up the Initial values from two Rings back instead of the previous Ring
7. OK moves on to the next Ring
8. FWD/BWD set the direction of movement when pressing OK
9. Make Remaining Sets allows you to to just finish making the rest automatically
10. Show/Hide is a lame attempt to simplify what you see in the viewport... a little slow and not well tested
11. Cancel leaves the plugin

IMPORTANT: When you move to an existing Ring, you are in EDIT mode and can change the Values

Samus
08-05-2004, 01:22 PM
Hi Greg,

I just got back from work,and i finished reading your
Tutorial,I'm stunned how Concrete and ordered this
plugin is, i'm looking forward to test it .

From what i see, you've invested quite some time
codding this.You have my salutations, Lscripting
is not easy from far.But you can pull quite some utilities.
All i have to say is you got the idea Right on!!!

Thank's for making this an easy process to task.

Samus :D
:cool:

brap
08-05-2004, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by Castius
it's been reported as a bug. what ever app you open first, layout or modeler is the only one that will save the plugins added. So if you want to add a modeler plugin open modeler first.

Thanks for that tip, Castius! I had been meaning to try and figure out why plugs weren't sticking sometimes! :)

GregMalick
08-05-2004, 02:38 PM
Thanks Samus.:D

This is actually my first Modeler LScript and I learned a lot doing it. I've been doing more Layout stuff. But this LScript isn't actually done. I need to check out that Bounding Box option and the Plane option isn't working like it should.

You know ideally ClothDynamics/SBD should be used for... well ...clothing. Which means (unfortunately) that you have to cut apart pants/jackets/etc that you've modeled in order to use this Plugin to make a cage. Then you have to merge all those layers back (I would imagine). Still too much work.


Oh... Important!!! I notice that in my first screen capture I cut off the Z-Dimension in the UL viewport. Z is pointing UP in the that first picture. All calculations are based on that Ring-Plane. Stange things happen if you choose incorrectly.

Samus
08-06-2004, 10:39 AM
Hi Greg,

I've tryed the SBD shell Plugin you Scripted,It's really great,
However a major bug has been noticed :

When ever you create a mesh, as long as it's not
deformed or jittered ,the script will work.
Otherwise it bugs.

is there a way around this???

otherwise the interface is eazy to process including
the visual feedback.

cya :D

GregMalick
08-06-2004, 02:12 PM
Aloha Samus,
Could you zip up and attach a problem object? Either that or email the zip to me. It will be easier for me to debug that way. Hopefully it's something simple to fix. :eek:

Samus
08-06-2004, 03:35 PM
Hi Greg,

here is the Problem subject,What i did
is perform a jitter of 0.1(x,y&Z) metter on the mesh,
Also if you bend the mesh some funny but
Coherent artefacts happens...Ill Beta Test
the plugin further more.

debugging the script can make this a must have
like Fprime ...:D

GregMalick
08-06-2004, 07:03 PM
Samus, now you're being silly... :p FPrime is totally UNREAL!!

But thanks for the kind words... this weekend is really booked for me (good stuff like a department picnic) so I'll see what I find out tonite. I have feeling the trouble is because I'm calculating which points belong to a "group" by comparing their Z-values (must be equal) and then calculate the center point for that plane. When only one (or two) points exists in a plane, strange results occur. The first script I threw together (but never posted) averaged all the points. This skipped the problem, but the results weren't Spikes that were Normal to the surface (like your example showed). I also couldn't give cool control over setting the values dynamically. So that was the throw away script I mentioned a few weeks back.

It's been way too long since I studied Vector Geometry, but conceptually, these closed surfaces have a center line in them... I just haven't figured out how to calculate it. All the shell points ought to be a "normal" extension to that center line. A sheet/plane would have a center line, but not enclosed in the surface. Spheres have a center point. blah, blah, blah

Back to the problem... I think I'll have to build in a tolerance when considering a point for belonging to the same point "group". Right now the points have to have the same Z value (when choosing the Z orientation).... hmmmmm, luckily this is just a fun project... and I don't have to worry about a deadline.

If anyone is a Vector Geometry wizard, please help us figure out the math.

Samus
08-07-2004, 05:00 AM
Hi Greg,

Maybe use the normals like LW does when you select a poly,
I do'nt know how hard this is,but from what you said :

"...Vector Geometry, but conceptually, these closed surfaces have a center line in them... "

Hoolah!!! head ake's UP !!! :p , just take your time.
I just Hope some guys at Newtek Could Help....

Daisuke Ino San Help Us!!!!!!

dmind
08-09-2004, 07:21 AM
Hello,

In Fast Cloth Plugin, when i link the object to the cage in the layout, the message "No corresponding cloth object" appears and don't work .

somebody knows so that it happens?

thanks.

ColinCohen
08-09-2004, 09:57 AM
The problem is that it is looking for a cloth object named the same as the cage object, and you probably renamed your cloth object in Layout. I've changed the plugin so it now requires you to select both the cloth object and the cage object. Please download the latest version.

dmind
08-09-2004, 02:19 PM
thank you very much, it really works and is magnificent.

GregMalick
08-17-2004, 01:14 AM
Aloha,
Colin Cohen suggested I simplify my SBDcage program and that's what I did. It still does ring detection and allows setting the ring sizes and spikes.:)

Lscript attached:

GregMalick
08-17-2004, 01:21 AM
Here's the first screen... you no longer have to tell it the axis or geometric shape.

If your shape has an edge, choose OPEN.
If it's closed (like a sphere) choose CLOSED.

It shouldn't matter, but it will skip looking for an edge if it's a closed shape... just runs faster.

If you want to later select points or shells, also check the Create Selection Sets. You may want to include the Layer# option if you are creating a few.

GregMalick
08-17-2004, 01:27 AM
The next dialog is pretty much as before except the LScript no longer needs to calculate the center point since it's using point normals. So that option has been removed.

You can change the cage radius with the top slider and the spike points with the second slider. If you want to use alternate spike values, select the FREE option and the third slider sill be used for the "odd" numbered spikes.

I'll leave the other options for you to play with.

As always, free scripts should be used with caution.

Samus
08-17-2004, 03:47 AM
Hi all,

Hi Greg, Hi Colin,

I'm so glad you guys help each other ,Share Codes, Kinda like Teaming UP,
Thats Great. i'm Gonna try the plugin in a few min.

What a Community .

Samus :D Lightwave Community

GregMalick
08-19-2004, 04:18 PM
must work fine...huh? :)

Samus
08-20-2004, 09:26 PM
Hi Greg,


Yes the plugin works just fine,i Even tryed to tackle the
Script with a problem poly(Bended and jittered mesh)
And it works just fine.But one thing though...(cause there is one :p ) The script creates a whole lot of selection sets
instead of one. I think it should always give the same
selection set , as opposed to an series of incremented sets.

The rest is just Great work Thanks.

If i get new ideas for usefull scripts ill know were to
Knock. :D

Samus:D

GregMalick
08-20-2004, 09:57 PM
I purposely did that so after testing the cage in Layout you could go back to Modeler, select a single Ring or Spike Set, and and tweak them (probably with Size). It's easy to change.... would a single selection set for both rings & spikes - be better?

It would be an easy option to add.:)

Samus
08-21-2004, 03:22 PM
Hi Greg,

maybe just out of the load of Sets,Have one that is only
the Fix constraints,so that you can add this later in Layout
ClothFx.

Samus ;)

GregMalick
08-21-2004, 04:24 PM
Samus,
Do you mean have the different sets as an option AND always create a seperate PointSet for ALL the cage/ring points created?

GregMalick
08-21-2004, 11:38 PM
Here's a new version that corrects the problem with Selection Sets being an accumulated Set... It also creates a single set for all the points created called SBDcage. This SelectionSet is always created for use in Layout. I also dropped the seperation of Ring & Spike sets - they are now in the same SelectionSet (if you choose the option to make them at all).

Samus
08-26-2004, 04:59 PM
I love Updates :)

Mike Pauza
09-02-2004, 10:20 AM
Nice idea Samus. It's similiar to the hold structure setting, but with moving geometry, which is better. When the cloth motion doesn't have to be very complex, this technique will simplify cloth simulation quite a bit and help keep it from misbehaving. Keep up the good work guys! :)

In the Hulk movie BTW, the skin was simulated using a similiar method. Before they attached weak springs from the skin surface to the muscle (like what our bodies fat layer does I think), they had skin moving all over the place. Hulk even had his nipples move onto his back at one time! That must hurt.



-Mike Pauza

Piolla
09-27-2004, 05:40 AM
Wow! This is sooo F... cool!
I realy love this comunity!

Samus
09-28-2004, 05:26 AM
hehehhhe....It's not totally perfect.But helps a lot.

Samus :D

Exper
09-28-2004, 09:48 AM
Great stuff... Samus, Greg and Colin! :cool:

GregMalick
09-28-2004, 10:13 AM
It was fun. :D

HowardM
10-28-2004, 03:57 PM
YOU GUYS ROCK!
:D Lets see some cool anims youve made with this technique!

grafikdon
06-19-2005, 06:42 AM
This is cool stuff samus. D'ya know how frustrated I've been with SBD? Dang no matter what I did, it always came out wrong so I had to resort to displacement map and morph targets.

Whew! Anything that speeds up that sucker (SBD) is a rare gem.

Samus
06-19-2005, 03:32 PM
your Welcome,

Thanks to To GregMalik And Colin Cohen,
For coding The Plugs.

Let's Hope Next Lightwave Will have a New Sbd Engine.

SAmus :D

zapper1998
10-22-2007, 04:17 PM
cool thanks

Speedmonk42
10-22-2007, 04:24 PM
Is this really a conversation spanning .... years .... or am I reading something wrong....

zapper1998
10-22-2007, 04:26 PM
just noticed the dates also

wow

Roadwarrior
04-19-2008, 10:19 PM
Anyone want to post ColinC's Fast Cloth Plugin??
or any of his old plugins

Colin are you out there??
over and out:)

Thx
Roadwarrior

Samus
04-21-2008, 07:17 AM
Hi, Ill post it as soon as i find it.As far as i recall it does'nt work with
recent Lw versions.

Cheers.

Roadwarrior
04-22-2008, 04:42 AM
Ok Thx Samus:thumbsup:

Samus
04-22-2008, 10:08 AM
Hi,

Ah-haa there it is!!!

You have both Cloth.p and SBD Shell LSC
both working with the same principle.

Have Fun!! :)

Roadwarrior
04-22-2008, 03:25 PM
Thanks heaps Samus :boogiedow
It is a great plugin & script!!!!:thumbsup:

Greenlaw
11-17-2008, 03:35 PM
Hi,

Reviving an old thread.

I wanted to use the SBD plug-in today and I got the following error:

Line 67. invalid selection mode active for selpoint()

Could somebody confirm if this plug-in is broken with LW 9.3.1. Thanks in advance.

DRG

Greenlaw
11-17-2008, 03:45 PM
Just tested it with 8.5 and it worked a little further but then it gave me a different error. Rats. That's the earliest LW we have on line right now.

Anybody want to take a shot at making a cloth cage generating tool that's compatible with Modeler 9.5 and higher? :)

DRG