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David
06-11-2004, 03:49 PM
Is there a patch that will include realtime DV out (maybe Patch4)?

Or is there a major overhaul of VT3 on the horizon that will have a HD option.?

Which of the above is more likely to happen first?

Also, I use Avid on my laptop will there be a stand alone Ted(Toaster Edit) soon?

ScorpioProd
06-11-2004, 07:19 PM
Only the shadow knows...

I'm sure Newtek must be working on new things, but with nothing announced at NAB, I wouldn't expect anything too soon.

Better not to raise hopes too early and then have people complaining "is it ready yet?"

As for a patch 4 for DV out, I wouldn't expect that, I would expect something like that in a new version of VT, though I want it, I wouldn't expect it to be given away for free as a patch.

As for HD, depends what Newtek decides to do. HD is currently more useful in a post environment than in the current live production environment that Newtek is pursuing, though in the future it will be needed in both.

I would expect real-time DV out to come first, based on the evolution of other NLE systems that followed the same path.

As for a stand-alone VT-Edit, depends what Newtek decides on that. It's up to them.

David
06-14-2004, 11:36 AM
I have a daul Xeon 2.4Ghz supermicro P4DC6+ (860 chipset) with 1ghz of ram and 4 old 2inch u160 10,000RPM 73GB seagate Cheetah's. The system will only run real time (1 1/2 streams, 2 will make system stutter) with Ted cache at 60 Mb/s and CPU cache limit at 4.1. Which are the auto config settings. I think it has a lot to do with the U160 drives being slow.

Would it be worth it to upgrade to a a supermicro X5DA8 (E7505 chipset) with 2ghz of DDR ram and 4 u320 15,000RPM 73GB seagate Cheetah's? Would the cost be worth the improvement in speed and stability.

Or should I stay with what I've got and wait untill PCI express comes out at the end of the year?

Jim_C
06-14-2004, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by David
I have a daul Xeon 2.4Ghz supermicro P4DC6+ (860 chipset) with 1ghz of ram and 4 old 2inch u160 10,000RPM 73GB seagate Cheetah's. The system will only run real time (1 1/2 streams, 2 will make system stutter) with Ted cache at 60 Mb/s and CPU cache limit at 4.1. Which are the auto config settings. I think it has a lot to do with the U160 drives being slow.


David,

Something may be amiss on your system.
I have almost the identical.
SMicro P4DCE+ same as yours w/out onboard scsi controller so I use a LSI. I only have dual 1.8's. Gig of rdram and 4 36 gig IBm Ultrastars. They are 15k tho, not 10.
Anyway, I can get many more streams than that with DV or RTV.

What does autoconfig give you for your stripe speed.

I would start by lowering your cpu limit and raising your ted cache to just below what your autoconfig says.

Anything else running in backgrouns, indexing, nvidia etc?

Jim

David
06-14-2004, 12:57 PM
No nothing in background, no Nvidia Desktop Manager, No indexing. I think it is the U160 10K drives slowing things down! If I had U320 and 15k Drives I think I would see allot of improvement?

I just priced it out and it would be $1822.64 for :


SUPERMICRO X5DA8 Motherboard = $478

Two Intel P4 XEON 3.0GHz (3066 MHz) FSB 533FSB 1024K Cache (1MB) = 2X435.00= 870.00


Two DDR 1GB PC-2100 ECC REG Single Module by Samsung/Major Brand DDR1GBECC = 2X229.00=458.00

And thats not including at least 3 k15 SCSI drives!

David
06-14-2004, 01:09 PM
I think I should just get a U320 controller and 15K drives like you!

Jim_C
06-14-2004, 01:10 PM
Just my IMO,

But I still think you have a lot of horsepower left under the hood you have, something is just slightly amiss holding it back.

I would try faster drives first. For all that $$ you are only increasing 1.2 total in CPU.

Ultrastar 15k's are relatively cheap comparatively.

just my couple sense....

John Perkins
06-14-2004, 02:33 PM
Something definately sounds wrong there, you should be running great.

When you get a chance, break the stripe set and test each drive individually for speed. I bet you have a bad one in the bunch slowing them all down.

Ever checked for bad termination/cable or Adaptec driver problems?

Are you 100% sure those Cheetah's are u160? I've got a few older (UW maybe? ) Cheetahs that are dog slow. Seriously slower than a 5400 RPM IDE drive these days.

Good luck, just don't throw money away until you figure out why this one doesn't run.

PIZAZZ
06-14-2004, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by David
I think I should just get a U320 controller and 15K drives like you! But would that take up too much bandwith away from Toaster on the 64bit PCI slot?

Your Toaster Card should NOT be in a 64bit slot. It should be living in a 32bit slot and the storage array would be in the 64bit slots.

Something is definitely funky with your system. I would start looking into it first and then look at other options once you exhausted the possibilities.

Jim Capillo
06-14-2004, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by David
Would it be worth it to upgrade to a a supermicro X5DA8 (E7505 chipset) with 2ghz of DDR ram and 4 u320 15,000RPM 73GB seagate Cheetah's? Would the cost be worth the improvement in speed and stability.



That's pretty much the exact system I have (2.8 Xeons) and I have no stuttering at all. Do yourself a favor, though...... have a reputable Newtek dealer build your box for you - they are familiar with what works with the VT and what doesn't. It will cost a few bucks extra, but you won't get any of the headaches that come with building it yourself.

PIZAZZ
06-14-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by Jim Capillo
That's pretty much the exact system I have (2.8 Xeons) and I have no stuttering at all. Do yourself a favor, though...... have a reputable Newtek dealer build your box for you - they are familiar with what works with the VT and what doesn't. It will cost a few bucks extra, but you won't get any of the headaches that come with building it yourself.

I could not have said that better myself Jim. Thanks for the dealer support.

ted
06-15-2004, 10:20 AM
As Jim said, it MIGHT cost a few dollars more at first, but if you gotta change out parts, you've lost, and MOST importantly, if you lose one day of production, or a client due to embarrassing system problems, you've really lost out, not to mention your time.
A good dealer built system and support is a HUGE bonus.
We wish you well.

David
06-15-2004, 12:58 PM
I get alot of work done with my system the way it is, I just want more realtime streams. My Toaster was put together buy Blaine at Video Hardware. He did a good job but Because of VT 3 I upgraded myself to a xeon system. It is my old drives that are holding me up. I had one go bad, it was the only 1 inch in the stripe set and it was under warrantee. The rest are 2 inch old SCSI drives, the 1 inch drive was probably working harder. I am sure that is what is holding up my system. The auto config says 119 Mb/s but only sets the stripe set drive to 60 Mb/s.


Your Toaster Card should NOT be in a 64bit slot. It should be living in a 32bit slot and the storage array would be in the 64bit slots.

I do have the Toaster in a 32bit slot. I was just thinking an on board controler would work better! Take up less bandwidth on the system.

And I do support dealers I have used the services of Blaine(Video hardware), Hank Teller(Videology), and I brought a MiniBOB from PIZAZZ.

DonN
06-15-2004, 08:52 PM
It's my understanding that in the video stripped harddrive set, the slowest dog in the pack dragges all the others down to that size and speed. They should all be 10K U160 Cheetah's I believe for performance in the 120MBs range.

Jim Capillo
06-16-2004, 04:51 AM
Originally posted by DonN
It's my understanding that in the video stripped harddrive set, the slowest dog in the pack dragges all the others down to that size and speed.

That's correct.

David
06-16-2004, 03:04 PM
I increased the CPU cache to 4.8 (I have two 2.4 GHz CPU's) and it seems to have resloved the problem. I also just ordered a X5DA8 motherboard and 4 seagate cheetah 73GB 15K drives.

Thanks for all the help guys!

eon5
07-07-2004, 09:16 AM
WHY IS EVERYTHING TOOOO QUIET !?


Please PAUL !

Tell us about newsssssssssssssssssssssssssssss,
PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

MediaSig
07-07-2004, 02:18 PM
....it would be nice to hear something about what's in store for VT's future.

Greg

ScorpioProd
07-08-2004, 01:58 AM
Well, in the Community section I posted a couple polls to see what we need from Newtek...

First I asked about what we use VT[3] for...

Of the 39 votes, 53.85% were post production only, 43.59% were live and post, and only one vote, or 2.56% was live production only.

That tells me that POST is really where the user base represented here wants and needs VT[x] to improve in. I'm not saying live improvements aren't welcome as well, but POST moreso.

I then conducted a poll on HD needs...

Of the 27 votes, two people (7.4%) expressed a need to edit ANY type of HD this year. 13 people (48.15%) expressed a need to edit ANY type of HD next year, and 12 people (44.44%) don't think they'll need HD till 2006.

What all this tells me is that we need Newtek to work more on POST in the next VT version and we really need HD (and HDV) support to occur NEXT year, not later.

As for if Newtek will do this, I don't know.

RayLarson
07-08-2004, 06:44 AM
I've been too busy to chime in on some of the threads on the board lately but this one rattled my cage. When I first got T2 back in March 2002, the updates were fast and furious. I was excited to be part of a forward thinking group and each update became more excited with the new features. Well, I paid to update to T3 and so far...outside of a sorely needed maintenance update...nothing. Other companies (Abode, Avid..and others) are moving forward and T3 seems to be stuck in a time warp. I am not complaining since I pump out revenue daily with mine as it stands but certainly would like to see some forward motion. The rumors that Newtek is focusing on live switching is somewhat disturbing since I mainly do post production but I think both can co-exist.

Newtek, we die hard toasterholics need some news as far as direction and focus. Right now I am at the point that I will be needing to upgrade to take advantage of any further updates requiring additional power. I don't want to make that investment unless I see the direction Newtek is headed. I am and always will be a Newtek supporter but business is business.

Hope we get an idea soon of what's in the pipeline and what we can expect.

(end of rant)

David
07-08-2004, 11:57 AM
I just finshed building my X5DA8 based VT[3] system and the Ultra 320 15k drives make a world of a difference. It Smokes!!! I have the following configuration:

X5DA8 motherboard

2 2.8 Ghz Xeon CPUs

1 GIG of RAM

Quadro FX 3000 Video Card

3 15K 73GB Seagate Cheetah's (Hot Swapable) had 4 but one didn't work!

1 10K 73GB Seagate Cheetah U160 System drive (Hot Swapable) . Windows loads alot quicker

2 NEC 2510A DVD+RW/DVD-RW DL(Dual Layer) burners only $89 at newegg.com

Western digital 250GB 8MB buffer IDE drive for storage and used as effects drive.
*If anyone has suggestion on how to impove this configuration let me know.

Can somone say satisfaction! Well Supermicro just release there new PCI express Intel® E7525 (Tumwater) Chipset based motherboards. When Newtek wakes up there should be alot of options for an HD or HDV based solution.

ScorpioProd
07-08-2004, 04:31 PM
I agree that the longer one waits to come up with new technology, the better the host system you can put it in, but...

The simple fact is HDV certainly wouldn't stress ANY VT[3] host system now, at a data rate lower than DV. So there is certainly NO need for a new host system for that.

And as for HD, if one compresses it in real-time to an RTV data rate, which is the solution other NLEs do, it is also fully usable in just about ANY current VT[3] host system without lossing multi-stream real-time ability.

I have personally done this with the PicVideo M-JPEG codec and had VT-Edit playing 1080i in real-time scaled to SD, so I know it works.

eon5
07-27-2004, 07:45 AM
Hello NEWTEK !

Anybody hommmeeeee ?

Paul Lara
07-27-2004, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by eon5
Hello NEWTEK !
Anybody hommmeeeee ?

Yes. There are a lot of people home, in fact.
We value customer feedback, and we monitor these requests, and when possible, we incorporate such requested features into the NewTek roadmap.

At the moment, the feature-set of VT[4] is not publically available.

eon5
07-28-2004, 05:18 AM
There are a lot of people home, in fact

lololol :D

At the moment, the feature-set of VT[4] is not publically available

WOW !!!COOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !
:cool:


--> VT4 will be available next year ?

David
07-29-2004, 01:09 AM
Yes,

Paul let us know what is going on.

Will VT[4] be a 64bit application with a new HD card? That would be nice!!!

pnelson
07-29-2004, 07:46 AM
I wish that I could give you more info but I can't at this time.

We are not making any HD announcements because Practical HD isn't quite here yet. Even with all of the HD talk at NAB the "experts" say it is still 1 to 2 years away.

That being said, we have some cool stuff coming in the short and long term!

I can speak for NewTek when I say that we sincerely appreciate the passion and support of the NewTek community! You guys are the reason we keep pushing the envelope on power, quality and value!

Thanks for everything,

ScorpioProd
07-29-2004, 11:23 AM
Who's looking for "practical" HD? I'm looking for cutting edge, out before the mass of everyone else HD. The early bird gets the worm, the market share, and the cash inrush. Heck, I did this on a personal scale when I went digital before the rest of my market did.

The good news is I now know we don't need ANY help (or upgrade) from Newtek to do HDV on VT[3], so I'm happy! :)

SD as output, but hey, that's not a problem for me for the next year! Cause the early need of HDV, at least in my market, is to future proof new camcorders I need to get within the next year.

Check out the story in the Community part of this forum if you are curious...

I want to keep going with the VT[3] I know and love, even for HDV, and now I know I CAN.

Eric Pratt
07-30-2004, 03:01 PM
I just had some thoughts on the poll because it doesn't seem to jive with the customers I know and what they do with Their VT3. I would say it's pretty evenly split between editing and live production, but post gets over represented because VT3 for a post environment is usually in an edit suite with an internet connection and VT3 for live is usually in a church or a stadium far from an internet connection (or at least one to surf on).
I do know that Live production is an important key to VT3's success, even it's post success (how do you think it got to be realtime? :) ) and I'd hate for NewTek to get the idea that the entire product line's future needs to be weighted in the post side of things.
That said, I'd like some HD too please, live or post.

SCS
08-11-2004, 02:27 PM
Will the current boardset, sx-8, rs-8, sdi etc. hardware be compatible with the upcoming VT[4]?

robewil
08-11-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by SCS
Will the current boardset, sx-8, rs-8, sdi etc. hardware be compatible with the upcoming VT[4]? What upcoming VT[4]?

Richvideo
08-11-2004, 03:45 PM
"That being said, we have some cool stuff coming in the short and long term! "

Is that Newtek's concept of short term or the rest of the world short term?

SCS
08-11-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by Paul Lara
Yes. There are a lot of people home, in fact.
We value customer feedback, and we monitor these requests, and when possible, we incorporate such requested features into the NewTek roadmap.

At the moment, the feature-set of VT[4] is not publically available.

This one.