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smudge11
06-10-2004, 12:37 PM
I'm having two problems with Bone Twist in LW 8. I was wondering if anyone else had seen these problems, or had any answers. The first is that on certain bones, once I use the Bone Twist, the rotation axes are not updated when I drop the tool. The second, and more serious, problem is that sometimes when I use the Bone Twist tool, make my adjustments, and hit space to drop the tool, that bone and all decendents of it dissappear. They are still listed in the scene editor and Bones list, but nothing I can do shows them on screen. The are in fact gone, just the names remain. The only thing to do is delete them, so they are gone from the lists, then redraw.
Has anyone seen either of these problems?
LW 8 on Mac OSX 10.3.4.

óLou

blabberlicious
06-11-2004, 01:40 AM
Read this post (if you are brave enough) and you'll see that there are serious bugs with Bone Twist, Tip Move.
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23577&highlight=infinity

The functionality of them isn't good either - no undo at all. There is no way to bail out of a move, because even if you don't hit the spacebar, the edit is still performed.
Worse still, there is no undo, so I suggest mapping the "reload scene' to a key, because you'll be using this ALOT.

Scott at NT has noted these bugs (along with quite a few others related to Open GL).

Incidentally, he mailed me to say they having a week long LW Mac Dev meeting.


:-)

Der Elf
11-14-2004, 05:53 PM
Well I have upgraded to LW 8, migrating back from MAYA, and I was curious if there has been any motion on the question of the BONE TWIST issue. I have had the same problem with it mentioned on this and other threads, pivot point is not updated after the tools is dropped.

Any Word on this? I have spent two days trying to do a rig that would have taken me 5 hours in MAYA, this is an observation on functionality not a religious comment. Please just answers no flames or I will start to gibber.

blabberlicious
11-15-2004, 02:42 AM
Well I have upgraded to LW 8, migrating back from MAYA, and I was curious if there has been any motion on the question of the BONE TWIST issue. I have had the same problem with it mentioned on this and other threads, pivot point is not updated after the tools is dropped.

Any Word on this? I have spent two days trying to do a rig that would have taken me 5 hours in MAYA, this is an observation on functionality not a religious comment. Please just answers no flames or I will start to gibber.

Tell me about it!.

I have bad news:

On Friday, I got a post back from NT support, saying that the Bone Tools Fix may (or may not) be included in the next point release update (when?), even though I was mailed by them weeks ago to say they had appeared to have discovered the cause of the Mac bone tools bug and that we could expect a fix soon.

I have been posting NT about the BT bugs since (almost) day one of the release.

NT gave me the impression that it was a quick fix - and even explained what was causing it.

Now they are saying it still not finished...

C'mon guys!

I'm not asking for n-gons, SPD, bleeding edge whatever - I just want the tools they (continue) to advertise to WORK!

Contrary to what some people think, I take no satisfaction in banging away about this like a cracked record, but as DER Elf says, it US who have to live with the faliure of NT to deliver. In in the case of these tools, it adds HOURS & HOURS of needless time, working with bones in the 7.5 way.

Really poor.


Perhaps NT should put a mac 'health warning' on the LW8 box along the lines of:

Some of the advertised features in this release don't work on a mac, and may or may not get fixed at some point - but until then, please buy a PC or quit your moaning - we've got important stuff to think about - like spending your upgrade money and announcing Wintel Roadmaps..."



Finally, I should add that I rate Scott highly, but get the distinct impression that he's not being given the support or resources that he (or the platform & it users) deserve.

What else can explain this situation?

smudge11
11-15-2004, 04:20 PM
That is really disheartening news. I was so looking forward to 8 before it was released just for these bone improvements, and now I feel completely let down. I have been quite patient about things being fixed, and I always thought Newtek made an effort to keep the mac version up, but I'm really starting to question that. I have also resisted looking to other packages because I really like Lightwave, but it may be time to seriously consider a switch. I'm not willing to deal with the PC world of viruses and lack of security, especially when there are now other options on the mac. I really hope something is done soon, or I may be along to other things.

Lou

PeteS
11-15-2004, 05:15 PM
first off, i understand it's not easy working out coding and my heart goes out to the poor chap that has that job. BUT....i'm starting to feel like the red headed stepson here. i think the MAC comminity has been pretty patient with this bug, but when is this thing going to be finished! It's not like it's a small featuer of the upgrade...it was one of the main reasons i got 8! common guys! help me out here..at least give me a work around like standing on my head on a tuesday between the hours of 5-6am!!!


really. please. we paid for it..we want it!!!

Pete

Der Elf
11-15-2004, 07:57 PM
Well I want to clear up that MY problem is not on a MAC but on a PC.

It is disheartening to find that after upgrading all my LW software and plug ins that many key feature are still not addressed. Simple things that are readily available in MAYA (Freezing tranformation/rotations, IK set-up etc.) are sadly lacking in LIGHTWAVE.

I mean it is not as bad as when the only way you could find info in the docs was looking in the index under "U" (for "Using IK", this is actually how it was listed in the LW5 docs) but it is bad.

I also want to slap that smirk of the Rasta Guy's face on the docs.

Chuck
11-16-2004, 09:54 AM
The development team has determined that there are several issues affecting Bone Tools, and these issues affect both platforms. The team is working on resolving them and expects to have them corrected in the next point release.

Chuck
11-16-2004, 10:00 AM
Finally, I should add that I rate Scott highly, but get the distinct impression that he's not being given the support or resources that he (or the platform & it users) deserve.

What else can explain this situation?

Thanks for the kinds words for Scott. As for resources, we certainly do want to improve those for the Mac and so are in the process of recruiting an additional Mac programming specialist.

PeteS
11-16-2004, 12:35 PM
well chuck,
what more can we ask for!
i (we) really don't mean to be pissy about this stuff. but for some it is more than a hobby. i a way to make a living. and we want what's best for MAC's. it's a bit frustrating when all we here is how MAYA is really catering to the MAC community.

thanks for your quick efforts! looking forward to the point release..BTW..ANY timeline you'd like to give for that release?

Pete :o

Ramon
01-17-2005, 11:37 AM
The development team has determined that there are several issues affecting Bone Tools, and these issues affect both platforms. The team is working on resolving them and expects to have them corrected in the next point release.
Hello Chuck, hope all is well!
Thanks for the feedback also. I'm sure we all appreciate it. Fixing all the bone tool problems is of course VERY important, for me, it's on the PC - right now it's with bone twist - I can't even make the darn yellow handle move at all. So no effect at all.
If these tools worked (as advertised) they'd be GREAT! Really forward to that in 8.2 Is this still the eta?
Thanks!

blabberlicious
01-17-2005, 11:53 AM
Hello Chuck, hope all is well!
Thanks for the feedback also. I'm sure we all appreciate it. Fixing all the bone tool problems is of course VERY important, for me, it's on the PC - right now it's with bone twist - I can't even make the darn yellow handle move at all. So no effect at all.
If these tools worked (as advertised) they'd be GREAT! Really forward to that in 8.2 Is this still the eta?
Thanks!

FYI saw something in the 8.2 update page, but - if I recall correctly, it only mentioned Bone Scaling being fixed. Since the majority of the Bone tools scaling /twisting functions are broken, this worried me somewhat. Not very clear.

BUT

Chuck did say that the 8.2 list posted was just a draft - but I really hope the final what's been fixed list makes it CLEAR which bugs have been fixed for which PLATFORM.

Here's hoping :-)

Ramon
01-17-2005, 12:17 PM
FYI saw something in the 8.2 update page, but - if I recall correctly, it only mentioned Bone Scaling being fixed. Since the majority of the Bone tools scaling /twisting functions are broken, this worried me somewhat. Not very clear.
BUT
Chuck did say that the 8.2 list posted was just a draft - but I really hope the final what's been fixed list makes it CLEAR which bugs have been fixed for which PLATFORM.
Here's hoping :-)

Yeah, no kidding! Hey blabberlicious, the thread you linked was certainly "spirited". I just read it. Thanks for that. It's nice to read what the programmer's points of views are of course. To be honest, it must be difficult for them, there's a lot of stuff going on. Anyways, as you said, here's to "hoping"! Those bone tools, working as they should, would be a very excellent thing.

PeteS
01-18-2005, 01:12 PM
Since the majority of the Bone tools scaling /twisting functions are broken, this worried me somewhat. Not very clear.

i get a bad feeling on this too...
killed me when i read it. hope it just a "draft" issue. i've been holding off on a job for 2 weeks for those exact upgrades.

he did mention the fix in a previous thread.
got my fingers crossed. will update tonight!

NigelH
01-18-2005, 03:14 PM
Not to get anyone TOO excited, but on some VERY simple preliminary tests, Bone twist, Joint move, Tip Move, and Scale Hierarchy seem to be working as advertised in 8.2.

I haven't tested extensively on an actual character rig, but on a chain of bones attached to a null, they seem to work fine. ...yay...

Now if they can just start looking into expression builder...

PeteS
01-18-2005, 08:20 PM
Not to get anyone TOO excited, but on some VERY simple preliminary tests, Bone twist, Joint move, Tip Move, and Scale Hierarchy seem to be working as advertised in 8.2.

I haven't tested extensively on an actual character rig, but on a chain of bones attached to a null, they seem to work fine. ...yay...

Now if they can just start looking into expression builder...

don't toy with me man! i am a man on the edge :eek:

if so...this will be a big thanks to the chuckster!

NigelH
01-19-2005, 06:58 AM
Dude, I wouldn't lie to you! I need all of my fingers - and my kneecaps. :p