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tumblemonster
06-08-2004, 02:30 PM
Has there been any progress anywhere getting Pro 3d cards to the mac? I just read that The new G5 speedbumps will have ATI Radeon 9600 XT graphics card with 128MB of DDR SDRAM. Still a gaming card.

-tm

eblu
06-08-2004, 03:54 PM
isn't that a RUMOR?
the speedbumps I mean.
why would you base your assumptions on a rumor? who knows whats coming out or when? certainly not anyone who believes rumors. They are entertaining, but the only way to gauge their accuracy is to wait till the moment passes. I personally believe that we'll have gaming cards only for some time, but thats based on trends, not rumors.
in any case, I've been talking to a some PC LW users. A few of them have pro cards, but many... many of them use "gaming cards". the general feeling is, that the difference in performance would not be worth the difference in price. Gaming cards bring a HUGE price/performance advantage to the table, when compared to "pro" cards. and I just can't see Apple ignoring that, especially when they have bigger fish to fry such as OpengL software acceleration, driver tuning, and advocacy to cope with. Pro cards now would be practically disabled in osx (sort of like the 4ForceTi was, but worse).

tumblemonster
06-08-2004, 04:07 PM
I haven't made any assumptions, but based on these "rumors" which, when we get this close and this detailed, are often quite accurate, we will have gaming cards for some time. The point is, pro graphics cars DO provide a performance boost in many instances, particularly in high poly animation. This is a topic that has been discussed a lot in the past, I was just wondering if anyone had heard anything new.

-tm

strongarm27
06-08-2004, 11:09 PM
9800 256meg special addition is available right
now. The only real difference between game
and pro cards from ati and nvidia is the drivers.
Some things are clamped off. The problem we
have is the drivers. A 9800 is a very capable
card. If we don't see the performance its a drive
issue and who knows when or if that will get fixed.
the cards are optimized for games. If your game
play is pour then you get lots of bad press but if
your workstation 3d is not up to snuff no one seems
to really care in the press.


strongarm27

harlan
06-08-2004, 11:18 PM
The 9800 Pro card is great, and works wonderfully with the G5 - albeit there could be some better drivers for it.

The 9600XT in the speedbumps is nothing more than a rumor. The speedbumps will definitely happen - how much of a bump, and what other modifications are made have yet to be seen, but a bump is on the way for certain.

If you want to base things on rumors & speculation - then I think the 'rumor' of the new Displays dumping ADC is phenomenal, and an indicator of good things to come - customizing PC cards to have ADC connectors for Mac machines was absurd (one of the major reasons we've yet to see pro level cards on the Mac). If they dump ADC, then the Mac Video Card pipeline is completely standardized with the PC platform - the only thing the GPU manufacturer would need to do is code Mac drivers (piece of cake). This would be a nice move on Apple's part - even if it's not as pleasant as the ADC on cabling.

Oddgit
06-09-2004, 01:25 AM
i have to disagree partly with the driver thing about apps being slow, yes more robust openGL drivers would be fantastic, but it is also up to the companies like Newtek and Alias to take advantage of them, i mean look at Maya's ui speed compaired to LightWave's, they use the same drivers and kexts but Maya is alot faster.
I have a 9800 pro se in my g5 i use the display overriders in Lightwave and maya and it is fantastic. Yes i would love to have a Quadro FX with CG but we all saw how much support nvidia cards get. Atleast ATi supports thier OEM cards they said they are even going to enable the functionallity of the retail cards on theri OEM products like the mobilitys and the ones that come with the g5, that is pretty cool of them.

tumblemonster
06-09-2004, 02:21 AM
As far as display rumors goes, who else is hoping the 30 inch display rumor comes true?! That would be so freakin awesome...

-tm

Zarathustra
06-09-2004, 09:27 AM
The 9800XT blocks one of the PCI slots! Damn.

Having only 3 slots is pretty weak. Now you only have 2 with this card.

Jimzip
06-09-2004, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
The 9800XT blocks one of the PCI slots! Damn.

Having only 3 slots is pretty weak. Now you only have 2 with this card.

Stop saying that!
:rolleyes: lol

Jimzip :D

tumblemonster
06-09-2004, 11:31 AM
Looks like the rumors were true...

-tm

pdrake
06-09-2004, 12:33 PM
just in case anyone is interested . . .

ati has a trade up program that gives you $100 off of the 9800 when you send in an old graphics card, no matter who made it. i know i have a few old ones sitting around including an old twin turbo.

http://www.ati.com/buy/traderebate/tradeup.html

euge04
06-09-2004, 01:14 PM
I'm looking to get a new dual G5. I know very little about the cards available for the G5. I just know there is a big price difference between the 9600 and the 9800 ATI cards. What kind of performance boost can I see if I spend $350 on the 9800?

I have an old dual 450mhz G4 that I started learning Lightwave on and I'm looking forward to get some speed boosts. The 9600 or the 9800 could decide whether I get a 1.8 ghz dual or a 2.0 ghz dual. Which is better $500 for 400mhz or $350 for a 9800 ATI card?

Zarathustra
06-09-2004, 01:22 PM
You can go to Apple and get whichever G5 with whichever card.

So, what's the difference if any between 9800 and 9800XT?

On that tradeup page there's a link for a 9800 for $299 and a hat. So you could order the crappy card in your new G5 and then order the 9800 from ATI - you'd save $50 and gain a hat.

WShawn
06-09-2004, 02:14 PM
Howdy:

I'm anxious to put my order in for the new Dual 2.5 Gig G5, but I'm trying to decide which video card to go with.

Regarding the 9800XT, I could possibly get by with two PCI slots (I'm currently using 3). On my Dual Gig G4 Quicksilver I have an Nvidia GForce4 MX (64MB?) driving my primary CRT monitor and an ATI Radeon something or other (32MB) running a CRT menu monitor.

I could run both monitors from the 9800XT and drop the second monitor card, but I'm wondering what kind of performance hit I would take by dividing the resources of this new card between two monitors. Do dual display cards allocate a fixed and equal amount of memory to each monitor, or do they allocate more resources to the primary monitor doing the heavy 3D lifting?

Would I be better off by saving the $300, using the stock 9600XT card and continue to use a separate PCI card for the menu monitor? Money is not my primary concern, performance and efficiency is.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

TheDynamo
06-09-2004, 03:33 PM
Nice future monster Shawn. I think the extra pipelines afforded by the 256MB 9800XL card would handle 2 monitors pretty efficiently. Unfortunately my point of reference would be from knowing a couple of gamers with that card that run it on 2 monitors. You get some pretty darn high frame rates with some of the more complex modern games.

As for me, lightwave is for me at home, my current company doesn't want to buy a 3D app so I went and bought my own darn copy with a 9800pro card on the PC at home. Works nice and quick. Say hi to Lisa for me.

Viva La Portland!

-The Dynamo (ex KATU Monkey by the initials RH)

(Mac @ Work User, PC @ Home User)

Studio Dweller
06-09-2004, 04:08 PM
Regarding the 9800 and 9800XT. Can someone confirm that the 9800 does not intrude on the adjacent PCI slot and it's only the 9800XT that does?

I also see on the ATI site that they have two variations of the 9800 in the Mac products section:

9800 Pro (128MB)
9800 Pro Special Edition (256MB)

I wonder if the Special Edition also eats into the PCI slot?

Zarathustra
06-09-2004, 04:16 PM
IS the 9800XT the same card as the 9800 Pro Special edition?

Studio Dweller
06-09-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by Zarathustra
IS the 9800XT the same card as the 9800 Pro Special edition?

I'm not sure, but I was wondering the same thing. They have a 9800XT listed under the PC compatible cards, but for the Mac, they only list 9800 Pro, 9800 Pro Spec Ed.

I'm planning on getting a 23" Cinema Display (or whatever replaces it) and I assume any 9800 card will drive it. However, I see in the specs that the "Maximum digital display mode" is 1920x1200 @ 60Hz. I've only used CRTs to date and I know 60 Hz = instant headache. As far as I know, that is not the case with LCDs or is that a spec I should worry about?

Studio Dweller
06-09-2004, 04:39 PM
Just found my answer:

"If the refresh rate is 60Hz, you'll want to turn it up -- preferably to 85Hz or more. If you have an LCD monitor, 60Hz may be your only option, but since LCD panels don't draw scanlines the way CRT monitors do, this won't result in ugly flickering and eye strain."

Studio Dweller
06-09-2004, 04:55 PM
One difference I found is that the 9800 Pro is listed as AGP 2X, 4X compatible and the 9800 Pro Spec Edition is AGP PRO 8X. I just need to know if the thing won't invade my PCI slots.

TheDynamo
06-10-2004, 09:51 AM
The heatsink and fan on the 9800 Pro I have in my PC at home (similar card) does obstruct the adjacent PCI Card slot. One of the downfalls to high performance graphics cards, well that and their honkin huge power requirements.

-Dyn

enggass
06-14-2004, 03:24 PM
Has anyone tried the 'new' ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 128Mb DDR yet? I just recieved mine and will be installing it tomorrow... 4x/2x AGP.
Thanks, Steve