View Full Version : Proton question

06-08-2004, 03:12 AM
On your soft FX video
Cutting cloth one

you manipulate points towards the end (well A point)

My question is, you say it is the motion path of that point and you can manipulate it.
Where is the motion at so I can bring it into motion mixer?
Or can I save the motion to bring it into motion mixer?

I'm looking all over and can't seem to find a window that has it (like a graph window or something) to save it.


06-08-2004, 09:31 PM
The motion is saved to an MDD file so it wont be something you will find in Motion Mixer.

06-09-2004, 07:20 AM
speaking of .mdd files, could you please tell me what setting were used in the jump_dress scene on the content CD?

I can't for my life get any decent cloth simulation without the collision objects going through the cloth! :nuts:

06-09-2004, 07:33 AM
so for anything else but a specific scene, I can't use the same motion over and over in other scenes without re-creating it?

06-09-2004, 08:03 AM
MDD files is stored information about teh points of teh object. You coudl use metalink to use that info on another object as well

06-09-2004, 12:32 PM
Maby I am not making it clear;

Where are the MDD files so that I could SAVE the motions.

Say I have a particular point in a persons face that needs to have something happen to it at different times (like a facial twitch),

So I make the twitch
but I need to save that motion file for the point so I can use it later in animation at different frames during animation by bringing that point motion INTO motion mixer.

Like setting up a bone motion and saving it to bring into motion mixer at different times.

Or maby my idea of a motion file (savable, copy/pastable, re-useable) isn't the same type of motion that the point uses.

06-09-2004, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by prospector
Maby I am not making it clear;

Where are the MDD files so that I could SAVE the motions.

MDD files are saved where ever you saved them......I would suggest you look at a few of teh sample scenes or have a read thru teh Manual....you might be mistaking MDD files for something else.

06-09-2004, 06:47 PM
I could be misunderstanding the question here, but MDD files are Motion Designer Data files, not Motion Mixer. Can't remember right off the top of my head what files Motion Mixer saves out, but it's not compatible with Motion Designer, afaik.

FWIW, I can't seem to get any newly created scene with dynamics (not shipped with the content CDs) to actually read the saved motion path after closing the scene (without reloading the file, though it's there in the requester to begin with) - perhaps this is what's causing the confusion?

06-09-2004, 08:33 PM
Originally posted by Maxx
Can't remember right off the top of my head what files Motion Mixer saves out

at least in 7.x: *.hmot (hirarchial motion files)

06-09-2004, 10:20 PM
I just aged another 10 years:D

I read everything I could find in the help files and looked over the soft FX video again, maby this pic will help because one of my synapsis isn't firing right and I am not connecting anything here.

In the pic I moved the point for a motion (green circle on left)

Now, I love that motion so much that I want it on the point with blue arrow.

Where in the panel do I save the motion and load it on the other point?

If I can find that answer then I can use that point motion that covers 23 frames in any animation using motion mixer during any 23 frame segment. So I should be able to load it to a point in someones face and have that point do the same thing.

06-10-2004, 08:17 AM
You cant do that....You can only save the MDD file that stores all of teh points that make up that object and their motions. MDD files are not used in Motion Mixer....

06-10-2004, 09:39 AM
This does bring up an interesting option though doesn't it Proton?

06-10-2004, 09:59 AM
No disrespect, but where would this be used in a real life situation prospector? If you wanted to make a motion mixer motion for the entire skirt, that'd make sense, but to copy a single point's motion and apply it to another point seems .. umm .. useless to me :confused:

06-10-2004, 10:31 AM
I can see many situations where this level of control can be useful.

06-10-2004, 11:11 AM
Umm .. when? Why not just edit the motion of the point? Sorry, I just can't think of a situation where you'd want a point to have the motion of another point :(

06-10-2004, 11:32 AM
Well...me neither :)
I'd rather use a bone and weightmaps to make several points to follow the same path.

We're talking about dynamics after all, a situation where you usually want every point to have its individual movement...?!?

(and i still don't know how to calculate that dress properly to match the mdd file from the CD...)

06-10-2004, 11:33 AM
not that this is the world's best solution, but you can give 1 point a vertex map and put a bone on it. Animate the bone, then save that motion. Then, take the point you want to apply that same motion to, and give it a different vertex map with it's own bone, and load the motion to that bone. Ofcourse you can't use this method when doing MDD stuff....


06-10-2004, 11:50 AM
Yes it is dynamics but in far too many cases dynamics are too "dynamic" and need to be controlled to a certain extent to achieve a particular look or feel.

If point editing was such a foolish idea then why include a new interface in the FX menus to do so. This idea here is just another step in the direction of minute control over points. And as far as using bones that would be a lot of extra steps and weight maps are good but limiting in some respects.

For example- In breaking objects it would be useful to apply a preset motion file to nodes of the broken pieces to control movement rather than allowing the dynamics to "completely" run the effect. If a couple of pieces that are crucial to the look are not responding correctly with the dynamics in play grab the motion from another node in the object or create one separately and apply this to the node or nodes in question.

And even better yet use this file with motion mixer and mix motions at the node level using motion files. What's so weird about this? Makes perfect sense to me.

This is just one example there are many others. And it all comes down to personal style and the way you prefer to work.

06-10-2004, 03:01 PM
Theo has it EXACTLY

I want to save a point motion and bring it into Motion Mixer for animation at any time.

And it might not be a single point tho.

If you can save a point then in motion mixer you can bake several points to 1 motion file.

Say some X-File FX for bugs crawling under skin and you want the bump to follow along as vein or something.

Maby a faciaL BLOOD VESSLE needs animating but not for the whole animation, but brought in at specific times thru motion mixer.

Or even a solid object like a door that gives a bit if something trying to come thru and quits but comes back later.

Yes you can do all this with bones or other ways but bones slow Layout down, displacement maps take up ram.

Would be easy to just put a 'save point motion' button to a file motion mixer uses.
I think it should.

But to have point control like that would be simply great.

Facial twitches, morphs and such.

Good example;

got a small ship going thru blood vessle, enters the heart, heart pumps by point morph using above point recordations.

Drop in motion mixer timeline,LW plays it and forgets it.

Other ways to do same
Bones....LW needs to at least look at bones throughout complete animation to see if change is needed, thereby slowing down LW.
Morphs..made in modeler as usual way to do...LW STILL needs to constantly look at Morph mixer to see if any morphs need changing in scene, again thereby slowing down LW.

We NEED point manipulation for motion mixer files!!!!!

06-10-2004, 03:27 PM
I hope the developers take a serious look at this. This is called out of the box thinking and it is ideas like these that allow an application to move into new territory.

06-10-2004, 06:55 PM
Here's an idea (it's 1 am so bear with me :))

Use EditFX to save out the motion for that point to a null.
Go into modeler and add a Selection set which consists of the points you want to move with that trajectory.
Add Sockmonkey after the dynamicFX in the Deformation list.
Select the Selection set and the new null in the relationship panel. Add relationship. Turn off 'Use rotation'.

The Null should now have the points following it.

You may need to used the selection set as a mask in EditFX to Smooth the motions from those points in case the null's motion is added to their dynamic motion, but I'm not sure about that. I think Sockmonkey just overrides motion beneath it, so it might be okay.

06-10-2004, 07:46 PM
man, sockmonkey!!! Gee, I forgot about that one...