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zecryan
06-07-2004, 05:11 PM
I must say the the CGI is Great in Day After Tomorrow but do you think the the next ice age will be coming any time soon, like within 100 year

hunter
06-07-2004, 05:37 PM
I think global warming will offset it and things will stay the same. :p

Hiraghm
06-07-2004, 06:42 PM
Get "Fallen Angels" by Pournelle, Niven and Flynn, published by Baen Books. It's a much better ice-age story than The Day After Yesterday.

theo
06-07-2004, 07:30 PM
I kind of meander in and out of this type of earth study on occasion and have found that the two or three scientific sides on this issue are so resolutely, and predictably so, theoretical ego-centric that it makes it almost impossible for the lay-person to make heads or tails of the whole thing.

BUT- in spite of this I do have an opinion based on the more solid and less-future based evidence which is that the earth has most certainly been through more than one ice-age and due to the fact that earth changes have been mapped and are most definitely a part of the earth's aging process, if you will, then we will more than likely be looking at some sort of ice age experience within the next 500-5000 years.

Global warming will not contribute to "controlling" an impending ice-age and may in fact help encourage one to happen. Global warming is another funky ego-fight between the so-called scientific community (so-called, because they seem to spend more time fighting like children) but the one thing that is agreed on, whether the warming is man-induced or natural, and that is that global warming creates very unpredicatable changes in the atmosphere- hence my point that it may in fact lend a helping hand to an impending ice-age.

An ice-age experience is also linked to changes in our solar system as well sun-cycles.

robewil
06-07-2004, 08:06 PM
What's the point of this poll? Unless some of us are climatologists, any votes one way or another are completely meaningless. Even a climatologist can only speculate. I'll just get my magic 8 ball and find out the real answer.

zecryan
06-07-2004, 08:11 PM
it just to see what other people think, or he guess.

Hervé
06-08-2004, 12:42 AM
it's happening in hollywood ..... right Now !!!!! aaahhhhh look that wave........ aaaaahhhhh nnnnoooooo, ........;


.......... gulp.


sooner or later, the destiny of the human kind is to disappear from this planet...... frankly the sooner the better.... coz we already started to damage the universe......:D

prospector
06-08-2004, 03:40 AM
Global Warming???
Did I sleep thru the Ice Age that enviromentalist were whining about in the 60's and 70's??
Now it's getting warmer?

I just bought all these Eskimo coats and boots!!!!!


What is the big deal about Global warming?

So Canada starts to grow Tomatoes in the Yukon, and the US gets to grow Bananas.

It's just a natural cycle of the planet as witnessed by the ferns (a warm area plant) in fossles in Alaska and the the Russian winter wonderland.

And so the poles melt, as seen in fossles again in Wyoming and other inland areas, the sea shells of long ago water areas.

It's just a cycle the Earth goes thru.
There is nothing man can do to either change it or cause it, we may (and I say may) speed it up by a few years, but it is coming none the less.

gjjackson
06-08-2004, 07:02 AM
Prospector, sounds like you're refering to the HAB theory.

theo
06-08-2004, 07:35 AM
I do, personally, feel that man has contributed to the global climate cycle whether in a good way (probably not likely) or in a bad way. BUT I am not a commie type that uses this information like a union ball bat over people's heads to change policy to more reflect my own.

I come from the camp that says- OK let's find and PROVE without a doubt that we have made mistakes and if we have, in time, let us work TOGETHER in a respectful non-political way to institute changes that will make right the accidents of the past to IMPROVE and minimize similar mistakes in the future to build AND foster an environment that our grandchildren will be comfortable in.

This is not because I think man is so powerful that he can throw the solar system out of whack mainly I feel this way because we should be good stewards of this beautiful orb we have been given. And to do this collectively, as much as I hate this word thanks to the pinkos.

hunter
06-08-2004, 08:47 AM
Well, just look at Venus. They cut down all their trees and drove the biggest SUV's you've ever seen. And now 900 degrees on the surface...but I've said too much.
:D

Wade
06-08-2004, 10:11 AM
next ice age - day after tomorrow! The answer is right there bigger than life for all to pay $8.50 to see.:)


Did you know that the earth has gone thourgh a snowball phase adn recoverd?

prospector
06-08-2004, 10:13 AM
HAB theory?

Theories are suppositions as yet unproven

fossles are hard evidence, fossles are factual
ferns need warm weather to grow, therefore Alaska and points north that have fern fossles were at one time warm.
If it is getting warmer then we are in the final stages of the last ice age,and those spots that were warm at one time will be so again.


Yes, they drove the HumHummers
short for HUMOUNGUS HUMMER
Got 5 gallons of gas to the mile,
but when hit by a PUPRIUS, short for PUNY PRIUS, the drivers of the Puprius, were instantly returned to the soil in the form of an oozing, bubbling, liquid.
Therefore saving precious land from being used as graveyards, and saved for parking lots for the HumHummer.:D

beverins
06-08-2004, 11:20 AM
Anyone know a process to garner waves and water in Lightwave to look as good as from Day After Tomorrow? Hard question, I know, being that they no doubt used proprietary algorithms to assist the dynamics engine they used.... I know there are two plugins for Lightwave that do water effects and dynamics (or just use what Lightwave has in it, per various tutorials) and then its a lot of surfacing and layering.... but can anyone shed some light on some specifics, experiences, or tips that can be collected from your personal attempts and successes at making a stormy sea that can interact with objects in the scene in this manner?

Just curious. I know its a rather generalist question, and some research on the web would doubtless answer the question - just wanted to know if anyone has first-hand tales they wish to tell on this. :-)

gjjackson
06-08-2004, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by prospector
HAB theory?

This was a book written in the 70's if I remember. It has been recently republished by the press that specializes in reprinting books. As I recall it was very well written. The writer had used science from many different fields and then postulated a theory to explain a number of anomolies. e.g. tropical weather plants in what is now cold weather climates. One of the scientific principles was the fact the earth has a wobble of about 70K yrs, If I remember, and this wobble effect will eventually cause the earth to tip on its side, thus causing catastrophic climate changes. Those tropical plants in the poles were due to the fact at one time that area was actually the equator. I had heard that there plans to make a movie, then Armageddon came out and it was shelved. HAB was the scientist who postulated the theory. Because the author developed the theory from actual science it made the story really compelling. I had never forgot the book as also with LOTR. I did forget the title though and sometime back I did some searches with just the concept and finally found the title again. Here's a link to where I found it again. Thanks to Amazon I've found many elusive things, books, music etc. that no one else seems to have heard of. I bought the book on Amazon but haven't had time to reread it.

http://www.habtheory.com/

Chazz
06-08-2004, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by prospector
What is the big deal about Global warming?


According to the theory put forth in the movie, global warming causes the poles to melt, the influx of fresh water into the oceans changes air currents radically and sets into motion a massive series of large storm that freezes the entire northern hemisphere.

Here's a interesting read about it: (http://www.technewsworld.com/story/34092.html)

prospector
06-08-2004, 03:54 PM
freezes the entire northern hemisphere.

Then that's not global warming, just changing the ice places.
Cool, now my eskimo coat won't go to waste.

Yea I remember that now.

I think that there was the same explination for the magnitic rocks that have thier north poles pointing south.
And I think that was also an explination for the band of oil around the planet, that formed when thousands of tons of plant and animal life formed it, which most likly would be at the equator and is now running thru Alaska, Siberia and back down to the Mideast and around to Florida and the mid west.

If the planet started to go back to it's original rotation, would they blame the SUVs?
HMMM

And would we spend hundreds of billions in trying to stop it?

TripD
06-08-2004, 05:43 PM
Yah, as gjjackson said the earth does have long time orbital changes about the sun. Earth precession <sp?> is one of them. I seem to remember one of them being on the order of 40,000 years. I can just take a 10 minute drive from where I live and see the geologic results of a huge *ss glacier that was sitting in my backyard just a few thousand years ago. It's all a bunch of huge cycles. We may effect it drastically in the short term, but in the big picture, I have my doubts.

hunter
06-08-2004, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by prospector
HAB theory?

Theories are suppositions as yet unproven

fossles are hard evidence, fossles are factual
ferns need warm weather to grow, therefore Alaska and points north that have fern fossles were at one time warm.
If it is getting warmer then we are in the final stages of the last ice age,and those spots that were warm at one time will be so again.




Yeah, but wasn't that mostly do to plate tectonics? Alaska was, in fact, at or near the equator at one point. Just because the fossils are there now doesn't mean it was ever warm that far north.

prospector
06-08-2004, 08:58 PM
Yea, if you want to go all the way back to Gonowandaland.
But most of the fossles are from later epocs. And they are above the gold belt layers, and because the gold fields stretch from the Alutions into the Yukon and down to BC, they were all formed at roughly the same time (geologically speaking), which means Alaska was in it's present day position.

Randog
06-08-2004, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by beverins
Anyone know a process to garner waves and water in Lightwave to look as good as from Day After Tomorrow? Hard question, I know, being that they no doubt used proprietary algorithms to assist the dynamics engine they used.... I know there are two plugins for Lightwave that do water effects and dynamics (or just use what Lightwave has in it, per various tutorials) and then its a lot of surfacing and layering.... but can anyone shed some light on some specifics, experiences, or tips that can be collected from your personal attempts and successes at making a stormy sea that can interact with objects in the scene in this manner?

Just curious. I know its a rather generalist question, and some research on the web would doubtless answer the question - just wanted to know if anyone has first-hand tales they wish to tell on this. :-)

The waves (done by DD) were in fact created using proprietary tools that, at this time, do not exsist within Lightwave - or any current plugin for Lightwave.

Rendering was done using VMantra (Houdini) and our in-house voxel renderer.

It would be nice to see tha power contained within Lightwave; but that is a considerable amount of work and cost that NewTek would have to invest.

badllarma
06-09-2004, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by Randog
The waves (done by DD) were in fact created using proprietary tools that, at this time, do not exsist within Lightwave - or any current plugin for Lightwave.


So basically lightwave was not used at all, to create the water, correct?

Randog just out of intrest if some work comes along that needs say you to do something you have not done much at work (DD) or personal example a digital forest / woodland (and I'm sure you have done loads of these in the past but this is just an example)
Would the department go out see what is commercially avalible and see if it fits what you want it to do, or would you have a look then think sod it we will do it ourselves and get better results?

Another example would be crowd simulation would you just go and buy several seats of Massive? Or would you think no, I think we can either develop a new x application to do it or if we used a, b and c we can get simlar results?

just intrested thats all sorry to be slightly off topic.

:)

mattclary
06-09-2004, 06:25 AM
By any chance, were the wolves done in LightWave?

grafikimon
06-09-2004, 07:48 AM
This HAB theory does it take into accoount that at one point the world had one large continent (Pangea) that broke up as the plates shifted? From what I recall of the Pangea maps Antartica was closer to the equator and parts of North america where underwater, which is why we have aquatic fossils in the middle of the plains.

As much as I love science it does seem like more and more of it is fighting over a small theory without reguard to all the science that came out before or that just ignores any research that doesn't support it.

A million years from now the plate california is on will have continued to turn and LA and all the rest will be up in the arctic circle. This does not mean that in artic had been warm and palm trees grew there.

It was a fun movie, loved the special effects, but it would of been more plausable for a comet/asteroid to smash down and blow up the north pole and cause all the problems. A deathray in space accidently goes off and "POOF" no more south pole. Hell godzilla could of came up out of the ice and passed gas and melted the ice... Anything would of been more plausable than "well it just kind of, you know, happened really quick, because it was cool"

Lightwolf
06-09-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by grafikimon
Anything would of been more plausable than "well it just kind of, you know, happened really quick, because it was cool"
Lol, hehe. Well, at least the only thing that isn't plausible in the theory used, is the _speed_ of the change (Well, o.k., and the fact that Europe should get the cold spell, but I ain't seen the movie yet).
...and I think Roland Emmerich had his share of even _less_ plausible disasters, this seems to be like a "back to the roots" thing for him (you know, when he did his first movie with hardly any budget...) :)
Cheers,
Mike

sketchyjay
06-09-2004, 10:08 AM
I wholy beleive that they must be role playing gamers because it seems like every movie is "okay here is what I do. I go get a pile of Early pregnancy tests and use it on Godzilla's piss"

"I never said he pissed"

"well he's a lizard they piss"

"but, sigh okay fine.... roll your dice"

or....

"she is sick, what do you do"

"well what are the symtoms?"

"Fever, cold palms, hairy tongue..."

"okay I use my research skill to find a medical book and the symtom in it"

"but it's a figgin library with millions of books, half of which you burned already, those medical books have no less than a 1000 pages each. There must be a dozen kinds of illnessess with similar symtoms, you got to be kidding!"

"I have the skill so I get to roll!!!!"

"okay fine... roll..."

"HA! I made the roll!"

"miraculously the book in your hand happens to be a medical book on infections and opens to....."

You got to love these guys for pulling off these movies,

The characters do stuff I could see them doing but that no professional would even attempt to do.


I'm with the 1000+ years before another ice age. I don't think we'll have another for quite some time.


:)

Darttman
06-09-2004, 10:35 AM
But what about magnetic pole fluctuations/reversals? Now I think poles moving around is the real reason for "global warming"

Of course it's all theories... :p

gjjackson
06-09-2004, 11:33 AM
Another cause of supposed global warming is the recent volcanic eruptions under the ocean. These eruptions have caused some changes in the ocean currents etc. Ah, too many submarines in the water. Those evil capitalists pigs!

prospector
06-09-2004, 12:08 PM
These eruptions have caused some changes in the ocean currents etc.
Well why don't we fix it?

Alls we gotta do is to get all the boats lined up in a certain direction.drop anchors, start morors, and just go full speed ahead, damn the torpedos, and get the current changed.

Kinda like ya can do with a tub of water and dragging your hand down the side.
after awhile, the water starts to flow in that direction.

Would only take 50 to 100 years to get it going at that rate but why wait? We need to get this going now.
And for Cilifornia, we just need to tie a lot of ropes from telephone poles in Calif to a bunch in Arizona, and problem solved.

Randog
06-09-2004, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by badllarma
So basically lightwave was not used at all, to create the water, correct?

The water elements had no Lightwave content in them.

Randog just out of intrest if some work comes along that needs say you to do something you have not done much at work (DD) or personal example a digital forest / woodland (and I'm sure you have done loads of these in the past but this is just an example)
Would the department go out see what is commercially avalible and see if it fits what you want it to do, or would you have a look then think sod it we will do it ourselves and get better results?

Another example would be crowd simulation would you just go and buy several seats of Massive? Or would you think no, I think we can either develop a new x application to do it or if we used a, b and c we can get simlar results?

While I am not involved in these decisions I can venture to guess that there are a number of things that would be considered before any development work is done. Many times we will arrange to have a demo of most (if not all) current tools that do what we want to do; it is not uncommon to get demo versions so we can put the appliction(s) through a number of tests to see if the products will do what we need it to do.

I am sure at the same time there is a cost analysis that takes place to look at the cost of all the products, what they offer, and what they may lack.

Opening an ongoing communication with the companies to discuss what it would take (and cost) to add features.

We also look internally; and we would put our own development team through pretty much the same thing (cost development).

It is most certainly not something that people look at a film and what it may need and say, "Dang! This needs lots of water. Let's write a water sim!" It's expensive. DD has been around for over ten years now - and that is not by chance. They know what they are doing (they being the executive staff).


just intrested thats all sorry to be slightly off topic.

:)

No worries - I hope that I answered your question fully - if not feel free to drop me a line privately. I may not be able to answer all of your questions because of NDA restrictions, but I can try.

badllarma
06-10-2004, 12:36 AM
thanks for the reply :)

jamesl
06-10-2004, 12:38 AM
...I prefer George Carlin's take on it. The planet earth is way more powerful than we are, and the only reason it tolerates us is because it NEEDS us to make the one substance it cannot make on it's own: Plastic. Once it has enough plastic, it will turn up the heat, kill us off, and be happy with its plastic. Makes sense to me.

j

harlan
06-10-2004, 01:59 AM
hahahaha...true...true...

Carlin's great!!!

The Day After Tomorrow was a waste of film however. Cool FX, but they'd of been better served up on a better film I think.

Red_Oddity
06-10-2004, 04:16 AM
Hmmm...i was gonna see it with a girlfriend yesterday, but she rather wanted to see Harry Potter 3...and judging by the remarks here, it was a wise decision (call it female intuition :D )...
Anyhoo, she could have taken me to any movie...kuddling in the backseats at a theatre is often enough for me :D

As for ice-ages... since it has been 12000 years since the last ice-age, and they judge your average ice-age comes every 28000 years, we still have 15000 years to go...but i guess the human race will have wacked it self even before that will happen...

theo
06-10-2004, 07:16 AM
Red_Oddity you are an oddity my friend.... what kind of cuddling can be accomplished in a theatre?

I guess a basic, almost partial-like, cuddling experience can be obtained but a full upper body cuddle where the chemicals in the ol' brain get manufactured is not possible due to the cuddle-restraint that is usually INSTALLED RIGHT BETWEEN YOU AND THE BABE that is alternately named an ARMREST!!!

Sooo.....hmmmmmmmm.....oooookkkkkeeeee. I never got into the "cuddle in the theatre" thing because it seems to be so protractive or something.... I guess that could be a good thing... which now that I recall, I think it was.... as I am now deliciously married to that particular babe.... ouch this attept to pick on Red has fallen miserably flat...... hmmmmm probably ought to kill this post.....naaaahhhhh

hunter
06-10-2004, 08:45 AM
I went and saw it, and to quote SideShow Bob It was,"...so formulaic it could have spewed from the powerbook of the laziest Hollywood hack." But, I liked it. No. Not the story or the dialogue but it is what it is and does get your heart pumpin' at times. Maybe worth matinee price. :)

And Theo, The armrests in our theaters fold up. You can basically have a 50 foot couch if no one else is there. If ya' know what I mean. ;)

theo
06-10-2004, 08:52 AM
Your armrests fold up? What the heck is this? I am an Ohioan and every theatre I have been to doesn't have this option.... cheap bastards.

sketchyjay
06-10-2004, 09:25 AM
I live in NY and EVERY theater out here has those fold up arm rests. Makes getting up and down an isle alot easier as well as yes you couold cuddle/lay out/nap if no one else is in an isle.

theo
06-10-2004, 09:35 AM
Oh geesh... from man's complete and utter destruction to fold-up arm rests....sigh.... probably a commentary in the utter insignifance of man and his trite problems, at least mine anyways.

Ah well.... my insignificant routine shall progress regardless of any and all bignesses.

Red_Oddity
06-10-2004, 10:20 AM
it's more a cuddling in a friendly teasing way...while trying to watch a movie (or atleast give the impression of watching), no fluids got into play sorta speak (urg...that does sound a bit disgusting doesn't it?)...anyhoo..back to Day after maybe Tomorrow

harlan
06-10-2004, 10:28 AM
Come to Los Angeles, Theo, and I'll take you to the Arclight. It's only like the sweetest f#ckin movie theather in existence.

theo
06-10-2004, 10:38 AM
LA's not on the agenda any time soon I would prefer being smooshed by a glacier than being dropped in the ocean due to my city cracking in half :D ....thanks anyways Harlan.

sketchyjay
06-10-2004, 10:56 AM
Theo,

no no no.... twisters....

LA is destroyed by twisters... new york drops into the sea and freezes over.... then wolves gobble up anyone still around. Who knew?!?!?!?

Whew glad we got that straightend out.

(its a movie reference if you haven't seen it yet)

Speaking of doomsday events I remember the news going on about NY getting earthquakes every 90 years or so and that we were due one and we were all doomed. We actually did have the earthquake. most people thought it was a large truck going past.

I bet when the time comes for the earth axis to turn that it will take a leasurely thousand years or more to do it.

The ice age I bet will also be just as slow and easily dealt with, but then we wouldn't have special effects that were as cool.

Randy:

Did you work on the ice effect or was DD even involved in that sequence? I was wondering how they did that.