View Full Version : mere curiosity - wtf is the hold up?

jin choung
05-31-2004, 10:48 PM

as i said, this is nothing but curiosity but what is lw 8 waiting for to get released officially?

why the discrepancy between the pre-orders and actual release?

isn't it unusual that there IS such a hold up?

as greater minds than i have said before me, "what's the dealio yo?"


05-31-2004, 10:55 PM
Just a guess-- I think they were waiting on the manual. I heard the order form just became available, so maybe the official release will be soon...

06-01-2004, 05:50 AM
AFAIK, there will be a last bug fix of the program. They are making it 100% proof this time. Pretty decent if you ask me.

06-01-2004, 08:31 AM
Well yes IIRC Chuck confirmed that a problem that gives some people slower rendering than LW7 will be fixed before final release, but i guess it will be a few more actually...
(but on my machine it renders ~10% faster...)

And well i just got my LW8 on friday (err...saturday due to postman strike...), i guess there are still a few people foe LW8 preorder, they'd be really pissed off :)

06-01-2004, 08:44 AM
I guess they don't want to say anything until the real LW8 is ready...

Question is what will be fixed in the final version...

06-01-2004, 02:07 PM
I'm sure we've mentioned in a number of threads that the manuals are still in preparation.

06-01-2004, 02:15 PM
Hi Chuck,

Are there any updates to the preorder shipping status ? I don't really want to call CS since I presume the support line is very busy.


06-01-2004, 07:05 PM
make cs earn their money and call them if you still havent gotten lw8

06-01-2004, 07:33 PM
Calling Newtek CS is probably the worst thing you can do...believe me, I know firsthand. :rolleyes:

06-01-2004, 07:47 PM
what they get ticked off?

06-01-2004, 08:01 PM
yes and then they take your personal info and have you declared deceased. That, of course, ruins your credit, your reputation and your sanity.

06-01-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by GeorgeDittmar
what they get ticked off?

No, but in my experience they don't return calls or emails, and in the case of my LW8 upgrade, they don't follow up.

I talked to a Marvin in CS who assured me he would get back to me when my upgrade was shipped to the wrong address...and nada...

jin choung
06-01-2004, 09:17 PM
but then again,

this is certainly not a flaw unique to newtek. customer service is universally horrible.

my dial up isp (verizon) is supposed to support usenet groups but they haven't been active in years! after weeks of wailing at them, i finally got them to admit that it doesn't work. and then - nothing!

either they should stop outsourcing call centers to india or they should start cuz what they have now is just insufficient and illegitimate in general.

that's why you guys should adopt my philosophy:

1. go ballistic... if you make enough noise, eventually, something HAS to get done... you have to take it to that level all the time. peg that meter to the red.

they'll either come around or you'll get hit with a tranq dart... and the effects of that are wildly exaggerated.

2. start cussing at them until they bump you up to their supervisor. i've always found that this results in me getting the supervisor.

3. if it gets really bad, start discussing really vile and intimate bodily functions until they threaten to hang up and then start shrieking. at this point, it will be highly unlikely that you have received any useful help but then again, you new this before hitting point 3.

but hopefully you will have traumatized to the degree you have been inconvenienced and annoyed.

lather rinse repeat.


06-01-2004, 09:39 PM
jin, dude,

It's really a shame that you have to go to that extreme. When I was doing IT support, my customers meant the world to me, they always knew I would be quick to respond and if not fix their problem immediately, at least give them a temporary work around until either one of us could come to an appropriate solution.

It's sad what customer service has come to these days, everywhere. It seems most businesses have adopted the belief that customers need them more than they need their customers and should their customer(s) leave, there is always another one waiting.

jin choung
06-01-2004, 10:22 PM
hey gruv,

yep... if i had a helpful cs rep that i dealt with (for me, it's been dial up verizon, kaiser permanente, ati) as i'm sure you were, they would never hear a profane word from my lips except for perhaps a, "that was fing terrific you son of a b! thanks!"

i don't exactly BLAME them... i understand that cs is bombarded by retards who forgot to plug the thing in and other such acts of incompetence.

and i understand how unbelievably expensive support can end up being for a company.

i'm actually quite sympathetic.

so in lieu of BLAMING them, i just play their game.

if they are going to make it so unbelievably difficult for me, i just have to take off the kid gloves and break out the air horn until i get what i need.

if i have to make a few reps cry before i'm done... that's the game that they set up.

it is out of my hands....


06-01-2004, 10:39 PM
well if a cs rep is giving me the run around you bet every thing you own that i have to start yelling at them before they will do any thing. never had to call newtek before so i dont know if it happens at newtek cs that much but most places's cs suck so much you could call it a black hole.

06-02-2004, 02:03 PM
Over four or so years the few calls I have made to NT CS they have all been worth the effort.

Olny the last call did I have to wait and that was maybe 20 min on hold. Anyhow CS by phone has allways been for me be the problem solver when there was one to solve.

Try it you might like it.

Wade :)

06-02-2004, 04:06 PM
Hi jin

My last 'real job' was in PC Support. It actually covered a multitude of sins ranging from kick-starting old IBM servers (quite literally once or twice :D ) to coming up with a novel way of using a PC spreadsheet to generate graphical representations of some bore hole data from a mainframe for a place I cannot talk about. For about 12 years it was great work. The team I worked with prided ourselves on creating a great working relationship with the users we helped out on a day to day basis. We were always honest with them and usually did more than was asked of us. Both sides were on friendly first name terms even though it was a large company. This resulted in users cutting us some slack when things didn't go quite according to plan. There were very few 'heated exchanges' and lots of friendly banter. So it worked well for all involved. Then 18 months before I quit, we got sold into slavery....er transferred to an external facilities management company. We were ordered to never, ever do more than was stated on the job sheet or asked for specifically by a user. We were not to build up one-to-one relationships with users. The user had to be accustomed to dealing with a different person everytime they called in a problem. Apparently this was the professional way to do things. 18 months later, I and quite a few colleagues parted company with the new organisation. I'm proud to say, in my farewell speech while remaining polite and fairly restrained I told the managers I was leaving exactly what I though of their approach :D

The point of all this ? The way Customer Support people deal with users is dictated by their managers these days..and is often very much against the way they would like to operate. Shouting, screaming and bellowing at them isn't going to change or help that situation. So cut them some slack....please :)

06-02-2004, 05:32 PM
From Despair.com (http://despair.com):

I have a friend who was getting the CS run around. He asked the phone monkey for the supervisor's or manager's name. When he got the name he hung up. Then he called back and this time simply asked to be transfered to [insert supervisor's name here] and magically got through to the person who could fix the problem. I think it wasn't tech support but still, a fun little strategy.

jin choung
06-02-2004, 08:02 PM

i LOOOooooooooove despair.com! they are truly brilliant.

as for CS kev,

well, if they're following the program to keep me tied up for minutes at a time and they're not helping, know that they probably can't help and yet keep me tied up and from someone who might be able to help....

well, it's simply out of my hands at that point.

but the verbal salvos are a... ummmm... 'professional' kinda thing though... like soldiering. sometimes you gotta take out the other guy but there's no animosity to it... it's just your job.

and if i reduce enough of the infantry into blubbering, traumatized casualties, perhaps i can convince the generals to change strategy.

believe me. when i'm berating their mothers, it's not personal....


06-03-2004, 01:18 AM
but the verbal salvos are a... ummmm... 'professional' kinda thing though... like soldiering. sometimes you gotta take out the other guy but there's no animosity to it... it's just your job.

Actually, pull that stunt in the UK...and you could find the 'boys in blue' banging on your door soon after in advance of carting you off to jail. Deliberate abuse of a CS person over the phone like that is classed as assault with all the long term prison sentence possibilities that go with it !

and if i reduce enough of the infantry into blubbering, traumatized casualties, perhaps i can convince the generals to change strategy.

They will...they'll have you locked up.

believe me. when i'm berating their mothers, it's not personal....
Try using that line to a judge !

There are no smileys in this post. It's not a joke.

jin choung
06-03-2004, 02:33 AM

good thing for all parties then that i'm not in the uk.

we yanks tend to be a heartier breed. for cops to get involved, you usually have to have some combination of a 'wife beater' tank top, a furious foot pursuit/freeway chase and/or some form of light artillery.

take it as seriously as you like kev.

i simply don't.

and here on this side of the atlantic, my remarkably apt yet cutting remarks fall far short of criminality.

if unrestrained rudeness were a crime, i would imagine most of the part-time teenage work force would end up behind bars before the end of july - not to mention 2/3rds of all dissatisfied customers.


06-03-2004, 09:15 AM
This thread has gotten to the point that it no longer has anything to do with the original question, and it is coming dangerously close to turning into personal attacks.

There have been several moderation notices on this topic, but in case anyone has missed them, if you are having trouble contacting Customer Service, contact one of the moderator's privately and we will see what we can do to assist you.

If anyone wants an answer to the question that was used to start it, the following messages, or variations of them, have been posted by Chuck in a number of other threads:

To repeat, LightWave [8] has not been officially launched. The printed documentation is still being completed. The printed documentation for LightWave [8] will include a reference manual and a tutorial manual. The regular SKUs for upgrades and for new licenses will still be available and will still include printed manuals. There will also be options available however, for those who do not wish to have printed documentation.

I should note the reference manual is somewhat larger than the current reference manual - and we did not have a tutorial manual as part of the 7.x documentation. So, as opposed to there being a lack of a printed manual, there will be two and these amount to substantially more printed documentation than we've delivered in the previous version.

The tutorial manual is a different set of tutorials, and will not be available in PDF format.

Because our agreement with the publisher producing the tutorial manual precludes letting us provide it in electronic form. A longer version with additional tutorials will be available through retail booksellers.