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David
03-25-2003, 12:10 PM
Should I enable onboard audio on my P4DC6+ Motherboard? so I can install Avid3.5 with Toaster on same PC! Avid did not work with Toaster as audio card. Or should I just buy an Creative Audigy 2 soundcard? If anyone has experience with running a dual boot or Avid/Toaster setup let me know.

Only reason I need Avid DV3.5 is to export EDL's to work on projects in online suites and to batch capture DV footage. If Toaster 3 has these features I could get rid of Avid.

Rich Deustachio
03-25-2003, 12:15 PM
This is a quote from the Toaster 3 information section.

"ToasterEdit now supports EDL import and export, allowing the import of Grass Valley, CMX, Sony, and Excel; EDL list formats can be moved in and out of ToasterEdit."

vip3dran
03-26-2003, 01:48 PM
David,

Not sure if Avid3.5 you are referring to is the same as Avid's DV express, but I had tried installing it on the same system I have the toaster on (to see what it was like) and it messed things up so bad that I had to do a complete OS reinstall to get things back to normal.

For what it's worth.

Gordon
03-26-2003, 03:24 PM
Hi David;
You may want to use Decision Maker instead of waiting for VT[3]. Demo versions are available for download. There are three packages: DV, 422 and a combined DV+422.

BTW, although analog batch capture will be in the first release of VT[3], dealers were told that DV batch capture will be in an upgrade release of VT[3].

http://www.vionline.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=software-pc

SBowie
03-26-2003, 03:55 PM
Just a minor emmendation - the 422 version of DM is beta, and may not ever get around to being finished. It's shipped with a kind of "it was pretty far along, and mostly works - but it is what it is" understanding. Just to avoid misunderstandings...

Gordon
03-26-2003, 05:40 PM
Thanks Steve. I should have included that warning with DM DV422.

The DV version of DM is completed and version 1.0 may be the last.

SBowie
03-26-2003, 06:37 PM
Sorry, Gordon - not meaning to snipe. You know me, just a stickler for accuracy. I know you feel the same way, so wasn't worried about my little addition to your post :-)

ScorpioProd
03-26-2003, 08:45 PM
Well, all I can say is that really sucks for us DV users.

We had a working BC for DV in DM. That doesn't look like it's getting updated to solve the incompatibility with TC from it to TEd caused by Newtek's own updates for BC.

And now you're telling me BC for DV isn't in T[3].

I'm totally SOL for BC in Toaster[3] then! :mad:

Gordon
03-26-2003, 10:18 PM
You know Newtek is peddling as fast as they can. :) They know BC is important and they DID say that it WAS going to be part of VT[3.x]; just not in the first release.

David
03-27-2003, 12:30 AM
Originally posted by vip3dran
David,

Not sure if Avid3.5 you are referring to is the same as Avid's DV express, but I had tried installing it on the same system I have the toaster on (to see what it was like) and it messed things up so bad that I had to do a complete OS reinstall to get things back to normal.

For what it's worth.

I am running Windows XP Pro with Toaster and there seems to be no problems with it after I uninstalled AvidExpress DV3.5. Only problem I had was Avid had no audio. Used jv16 Powertools free program to clean registry.

SBowie
03-27-2003, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd

We had a working BC for DV in DM. That doesn't look like it's getting updated to solve the incompatibility with TC from it to TEd caused by Newtek's own updates for BC. I know Jeff stopped development on the 422 version of DM for a number of reasons, and that he's quite busy -- but I wouldn't give up all hope that he might in time get around to fixing the DV version to be compatible with current T[2] usage... that is, so the timecode is once again visible in Edit Props as it was before. I doubt it would be a major fix...

Liber777
03-27-2003, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by Gordon
...analog batch capture will be in the first release of VT[3], dealers were told that DV batch capture will be in an upgrade release of VT[3].

But we should still be able to batch capture from DV decks via Component or Y/C, right?

...and just control the deck via firewire as I'm currently doing in VT[2] for manual capture?

Thanks,
Stivan

Gordon
03-27-2003, 10:19 AM
Stivan;
That brings up a very good point. with the intial release of VT[3] you could still be able to have BC as you would with any other deck if you got the appropriate Addenda convertor.

This would mean that batch capture from DV decks that have RS422 control may be supported even in the initial release of VT[3]. For those DV decks that don't have RS422 control but have 'Lanc' there is the Addenda convertor, (accurate to about 3 frames), and Addenda also make a RS422-to-"Sony Serial" 9pin protocol for the Sony DSR-20.


I've noticed several posts now from people wanting to use the Sony DSR20 DV deck to capture miniDV and DVCam video into their NLE's. Addenda Electronics has just finished an RS422-to-DSR20 adapter that extends the industry-standard "Sony Serial" 9pin protocol to this cute little deck. Now, for $198 to Addenda, one can economically capture digital video.

Bruce Robertson
Addenda Electronics
877 ADDENDA (toll free)

ScorpioProd
03-27-2003, 04:27 PM
I don't see anything in the press release dated 3/17/03 that suggests that BC won't work for DV.

In fact, the press release emphasized that DV support has been considerably enhanced. This is a big part of T[3].

Your hardware suggestion, though interesting, isn't a good idea for two reasons:

1) It costs additional money for a hack we shouldn't need to buy.
2) It isn't frame accurate. LANC isn't a frame accurate solution, firewire is.

I've been batch capturing DV frame accurate when needed with Premiere via firewire for a year. Unfortunately, this doesn't get me the TC into TEd, either.

It all depends what market Newtek wants. I totally support BC and EDL support being needed in the high-end RS-422 market, but it is certainly needed in the DV market where everyone else has it as well.

Gordon
03-27-2003, 10:09 PM
Hi Eugene;

It all depends what market Newtek wants. I totally support BC and EDL support being needed in the high-end RS-422 market, but it is certainly needed in the DV market where everyone else has it as well.

Newtek wants as much market as they can get and know that DV batch capture with EDL support is important. They must have counted the development time and decided that it couldn't be done and still make the release date. I personally feel that you have to set a target date for release and figure out what you can have finished by that date; then go for it. In software development you have to set a target release date and you have to set limits, (draw the line), somewhere.

I bet they wish they could just wave a magic wand and have it all programmed, debugged and working!

ScorpioProd
03-28-2003, 02:24 AM
Yeah, I understand, but it's quite fustrating for DV based users like myself. DV native solutions can be VERY appealing.

The new DV features announced for T[3] help a lot, but when "basic" stuff like this isn't there, that hurts.

No one wants to wait for upgrades on a new product to get what they need. And though Newtek programs as quick as they can, and release lots of useful incremental updates, remember how long ago BC was planned. As you said, software doesn't always get developed as quick as people think it will.

I still try to convince other wedding, event and corporate video people in my area to go Toaster, and I am happy with Toaster myself, but they see things they can get in DV based NLEs that they just can't get in Toaster yet and that hurts the view of Toaster for them.

I'm not totally convinced Toaster is a one-size-fits-all solution as many would like it to be. In many ways DV gets the short end of the stick, though less than in T[2]. Thing is, there's nothing wrong with Newtek wanting to aim for a higher-end market, but they should say so. Other NLE companies consider DV to be a high end market, but they don't have uncompressed like Newtek does.

And as for the market segment I belong to, in terms of wedding/event video people in my area, 100% of us shoot DV or DVCAM. And I believe this is true for a majority of wedding/event people in all markets. And it would be nice to bring these customers into the Newtek fold.

Gordon
03-28-2003, 10:31 AM
I think most would agree with you that DV BC/TC support needs to be the next priority once a stable VT[3] is in everyone's hands. That would be the perfect companion to a multicamera live shoot.


And as for the market segment I belong to, in terms of wedding/event video people in my area, 100% of us shoot DV or DVCAM. And I believe this is true for a majority of wedding/event people in all markets. And it would be nice to bring these customers into the Newtek fold.

With the multicamera live DV camera switching of the T[3], it will be a compelling reason for most event videographers to purchase a Toaster. Shoot, switch live and 95% of the edit is done. Add the assurance that DV timecode support is just around the corner and there wouldn't be anyone that I can think of that wouldn't see the benefit of the Toaster above a shoot now and re-edit hours of footage from multiple cameras later.

Newtek's best chance at getting more market share is to offer something to the videographer that they can't get anywhere else. Something that will save them hours of time in editing later. Live DV switching is just one.

ScorpioProd
03-28-2003, 01:00 PM
Interesting point, that could be a good selling point... IF one wants to switch live. And definately cheaper than a SX-8 BOB.

But personally, I hope that one of the next features after the ones we've already talked about, is a TRUE MCE program for the Toaster.

Though it is quicker to switch live, I much prefer the safety of doing my MCEing in post. A lot less equipment to bring on site as well.

Again, I'm spoiled by what the Classic Toaster/Flyer had with proper third-party support.

And for event people, there are true MCE programs for Canopus, Pinnacle, Matrox and Leitch. Heck, Canopus even supports three firewire stream capture in real-time to make syncing for MCE easy.

SBowie
03-28-2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by ScorpioProd
Though it is quicker to switch live, I much prefer the safety of doing my MCEing in post. A lot less equipment to bring on site as well.[/B] Which brings up yet again one of my wishlist entries:

Live switching multiple sources and capturing to the HD is cool, but it would be rockin' if we could have those switcher actions recorded (along with the relevant timecode). That info would then be the basis for creating a TEd project. Afterward, I'd also like to be able to tell the Toaster "kindly batch digitize all that again, but please be so kind as to pad the clips by x secs on each end, overwriting the existing files and updating the project.

ScorpioProd
03-28-2003, 02:51 PM
Ironically, that's sort of what the Classic Toaster/Flyer did.

Instead of reinventing the wheel to make the NLE do transitions, the NLE (Flyer) was really a disk recorder that used the Switcher(Toaster) to do its transitions.

Worked quite well.

SBowie
03-29-2003, 01:24 PM
Irony is so ironic... :D

ScorpioProd
03-31-2003, 10:57 PM
Excellent news!

I have confirmation from Chuck and Andrew that Batch Capture of DV via firewire WILL be in the initial release of T[3]! :)

Gordon
04-01-2003, 09:58 AM
Excellent!:D
Never underestimate the power of alien technology developers.

ted
04-01-2003, 11:06 AM
Never Fear, NewTek is here!