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View Full Version : As a VT user, what does Lightwave mean to you?



robewil
05-24-2004, 09:58 PM
I'm posting this in lieu of the conversations going around about Lightwave's relationship to the VT. Depending on the responses, maybe Newtek can determine:

- Should VT upgrades include Lightwave upgrades

- Should VT users get Lightwave upgrades at discounted rates

- Should Newtek not bother including Lightwave with the VT if very few are using it anyways.

toasterhombre
05-25-2004, 01:29 PM
Well. . . .I think the percentage of people that us LW with VT is small. I am on a mission to change that though.

LW is one of the BIG differences between VT and strictly NLE systems. People need to realize there is more to LightWave than exploding spaceships and character animation.

Besides flying logos, LightWaves ability to map video on any surface is a boon to almost and video producer.

That is why we released the 3D Arsenal. We also have similar products planned for logos etc.

I also want to do an instructional video, called "lightwave for video guys".

No high end mumbo jumbo, just basic stuff that increases production value and makes MONEY!!!

robewil
05-25-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by toasterdude
Well. . . .I think the percentage of people that use LW with VT is small. You may be right although the poll (so far) is indicating otherwise. Mapping video onto 3D objects is huge for me and as you said, no other NLE offers this out of the box.

I saw some of the 3D Arsenal stuff at NAB and I have high hopes that products like this will open the eyes of some potential VT customers.

toasterhombre
05-25-2004, 02:23 PM
They will. At a show in Houston a guy came VERY close to buying LW just to use with 3D Arsenal!

The poll might not be totally acurate as many of the people that visit the online forums are the more "gung ho" VT users. There are a ton of guys out there that just use VT at work etc.

I am curious to see the results though.

bbeanan
05-25-2004, 04:36 PM
I want to learn Lightwave I just need to sit down and find a good place to start... Right now I am very good with AutoCAD doing 3D but I would love to go the next step and start using LW...

Way back when Ace Miles showed me his work and ever since I have wanted my own VT system and it wasn't until about 1.5 years ago that I could afford to do it... now I just need to learn what I think is the best tool LW

eon5
05-26-2004, 07:20 AM
"Should VT users get Lightwave upgrades at discounted rates " is a good solution.

3D people dont use LW... they work with MAx o MAyA


GO AWAY LW and sell a cheaper VT, please !!!

bbeanan
05-26-2004, 07:56 AM
Originally posted by eon5
"Should VT users get Lightwave upgrades at discounted rates " is a good solution.

3D people dont use LW... they work with MAx o MAyA


GO AWAY LW and sell a cheaper VT, please !!!

Ok I will be the first to say it you are so very wrong it's almost funny that you would make a comment like that...

I must assume you did not see any of the NAB footage that showed off the TV use and Movie use of LW... I'm sure Paul L. can post at least 5 pages of productions that used and still use LW.

toasterhombre
05-26-2004, 08:11 AM
Besides the fact that LW is used all over Hollywood etc etc etc.

The most important VT related point is. . . .for video type stuff, LW is MUCH easier and MUCH faster than Maya and xsi etc.

For motion graphics, logos etc, using Maya would be like hunting a squirrel with a howitzer.

eon5
05-27-2004, 08:07 AM
bbeanan:

I think that VT3 must be sold alone (a marketing decision).

and people will buy LW and AURA in a "special bundle"


VT standalone (cheaper) is:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle, ddr, switcher, vtedit, etcetc)

VT Artist bundle is:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle, ddr, switcher, vtedit, etcetc)
- LWave
- Aura

robewil
05-27-2004, 09:51 AM
I disagree eon5. Lightwave and Aura, are one of the biggest reasons why the VT suite is such a compelling product.

Lightwolf
05-27-2004, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by eon5
bbeanan:

I think that VT3 must be sold alone (a marketing decision).
VT standalone (cheaper) is:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle, ddr, switcher, vtedit, etcetc)

Great:
VT standalone (cheaper) is:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle,vtedit)
That would make it even cheaper and would be all I need. ;)

Or this one:
VT Artist:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle,vtedit)
- LW
- Mirage

After all, how many 3D users do live switching? :)

Cheers,
Mike

bbeanan
05-27-2004, 10:35 AM
Ok but myself I bought my VT2 system for only doing live switching...

...but since then I have ended up doing more editing than anything else... all because one of my clients said to me after doing a live event "can you edit" this footage for me?" I said I have never done much editing but sure I give it a shot...

Now I do mainly editing...

fast forward to about a month ago a client said they wanted a rough 3D rendering of a install I'm doing I said sure I have LW I can do that...

So by having these products it has enabled me to earn much more money by the very fact that I have the full system... as it is the VT3 system is cheap heck MAX and Maya will run you $1500 (I think may be more or less have not looked in a long time) a decent edit package will be at least $600...

Anyway the point is you may not use it TODAY but maybe tomorrow... and you will be glad it's there.

robewil
05-27-2004, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by Lightwolf
Great:
VT standalone (cheaper) is:
- Hardware
- VT Software (cgtitle,vtedit)
That would make it even cheaper and would be all I need. ;)
Okay, what should this price be? Honestly, I don't see Newtek being able to sell such a package for a whole lot less thatn the current list price of $2995.00. Keep in mind, the R&D that goes into the VT system is focused on the switching and editing and Newtek needs to fund that R&D. Lightwave and Aura are developed separately so I don't really believe any of the $2995.00 price is going back to Lightwave development. Therefore, Lightwave and Aura are basically icing on the cake.

ScorpioProd
05-27-2004, 11:46 AM
It's like the suggestions for selling VT-Edit alone, which I also agree would be a good idea, if it was DV optimized.

BUT, it couldn't be sold for more than about $500 this way if it expected to compete. BUT, if it included LW and Aura, well, I could easily see it selling for $1000 or more.

robewil
05-27-2004, 11:55 AM
I agree with you Eugene as far as selling VT-Edit alone. But some others here seem to want the entire suite (VT-Edit, CG, DDR, Switcher, and hardware) without Aura and Lightwave at a substantially lower price. I don't think that's going to happen.

Lightwolf
05-27-2004, 11:55 AM
Originally posted by robewil
Okay, what should this price be?
I was just pulling your leg here. Basically, you can unbundle and sell everything in parts, but the nice thing about the VT3 is the out of the box character (even though it is not the box I need).

But as far as price is concerned: the competition would imho be a black-magic board and Premiere Pro, that would set me back at about 1200$ for SD uncompressed _with_ SDI, or 3200$ for HD.

I guess that sounds competitive enough for straight editing.

Cheers,
Mike

Paul Lara
05-27-2004, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by eon5
"Should VT users get Lightwave upgrades at discounted rates " is a good solution.
3D people dont use LW... they work with MAx o MAyA
GO AWAY LW and sell a cheaper VT, please !!!

HA! That's a good one, man.

I guess the following production companies didn't get the memo:


I Robot
The Passion of Christ
Daredevil
Finding Nemo
Gothika
Matrix Reloaded
Matrix Revolutions
Spy Kids 3-D
X2: X-Men United
Black Hawk down
...etc...


If you'd like to see a longer (but by no means complete) listing of productions who think LightWave is up to the task, go check out the LightWave Projects List (http://adh.best.vwh.net/lwproj.html)

jcupp
05-27-2004, 05:24 PM
Unbundling LW and Aura would be a big mistake, one of the major selling points for my customers has always been NewTek doesn't nickle and dime you to death with add-on this and upgrade that. You pay $2995 and you get everything you need.

This is a selling point even to those guys who never actually use LW. If they ever need it it's there. Plus how much cheaper does the VT need to be? If you can't afford a VT at it's current price you can't need one very badly.

Now, a standalone version of the editor that I could sell box loads of. It would be great for schools and PEG operations - one full VT and a room full of VTEdit stations or TV newsrooms - an editor on every reporters desk (or laptop). I don't even thing it needs to be that cheap, I think $750 with discounts with multiple liscense packs would be a big seller. Improve the color correction functions a little and you could probably get more.

-Jeff
Digital Arts

eon5
05-28-2004, 07:31 AM
Originally posted by Paul Lara
HA! That's a good one, man.

I guess the following production companies didn't get the memo... (etcetc)
[/URL]

ouuuuuuuu yeah !? ;)

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell, i think that the VT people like to buy/work with a VT+LW bundle with a LIGHTWAVE 8 version and NOT with a 7.5c [*gasp*NO-LITE sorry (BUILD_584 / 14-Apr-2003) WITHOUT ANY UPGRADE...

:p


pn: come on! ANY cheaper 3D program will do LOGOS easily! (like C______I T__E S___E)

--> VT+DFX bundle is (so far) better purchase decision !! (at this price)

toasterhombre
05-28-2004, 08:30 AM
VT does not ship with a "lite" version of LW. It is a FULL version of 7.5. 8.0 was just released. I am not sure what NTs plans are for including 8.0 in VT but 7.5 is more than most VT users will ever need, and upgrading to 8.0 is painless and I even got DF with my upgrade.

hruffin3
06-14-2004, 12:39 PM
if you look at history of these two you will see that in the early days the price of the hardware and software has not changed - about the same which made me jump at the animators edition, i knew it was a bargain. i even bought a windows machine too. i bought the system for live switching initially but had used a little 3d software - atari 1980's - 90 and was more than amazed at the advances in 3d by 2002! now i really like lw and animation used in conjunction with video, show me one other company that offers such a bundle and i'll show you a newtek wannabe. TOO many dead shows after dark got me hooked on this technology .... and now the light shows and lighting systems combined with custom gobos even project jpegs too.really like lw :)

lesterfoster
07-11-2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by toasterdude
VT does not ship with a "lite" version of LW. It is a FULL version of 7.5. 8.0 was just released. I am not sure what NTs plans are for including 8.0 in VT but 7.5 is more than most VT users will ever need, and upgrading to 8.0 is painless and I even got DF with my upgrade.

I am a VideoTOASTER user in Edmonton AB, Canada.
I have the complete system with breakout box <BOB> and all.
I am only 1 of 2 people in Edmonton with everything.
But the best part of my toaster is LightWAVE.

Can you tell me more about your upgrade?