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kmscottmoore
05-20-2004, 07:51 PM
From NewTek webpage:

http://www.newtek.com/products/lightwave/product/8/features.php#SpeedandWorkflowOptimizations

Speed and Workflow Optimizations:

Faster Rendering
Faster Inverse Kinematics
Faster Dynamics Calculations
Faster OpenGL Performance
New, workflow oriented, menu layout
Improved viewport manipulation


There is quite a heated discussion going on at:
http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22561
But so far, no one has shown Lightwave 8 to be faster than 7. In fact, it is almost always a little bit (10-15 seconds) slower.

wacom
05-20-2004, 08:33 PM
Yep...the render part is slower...

OpenGL does seem faster on my machine...as does IK (but not by much). Some of the dynamics are faster too (and easier to use).

I guess the maximize widget is the new viewport enhancment, along with OpenGL light texture view...hmm...

Lets hope the rendering part was left out at the last minute on the "pre-release" copies. The check I sent Worley says how much hope I have in that though...

Beamtracer
05-20-2004, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by kmscottmoore
From NewTek webpage:

Speed and Workflow Optimizations:

Faster Rendering

Maybe the marketing department got a bit carried away.

theo
05-20-2004, 09:41 PM
Maybe the marketing department got a bit carried away.

By whom or what? Ah...alas, by the winds of ebullition.

Edbittner
05-21-2004, 03:37 AM
Hey all,
Got 8 yesterday, and did my own benchmark test. A frame from a scene with vol. lights and heavy geometry& large maps took 35min.+ on 7.5c. Yesterday, I tried it on 8 ,(same frame), and it took 19min.+. NO B.S.! So, this keeps us under the"20 min. per frame rule around here". I'll post some examples later.
Ed
S*R* PRODUCTIONS

hrgiger
05-21-2004, 03:52 AM
Well, all the benchmarks I've done show Lihgtwave 8 to be slower then 7.5 by anywhere from 5 to 30 seconds a frame.

Dickigeeza
05-21-2004, 04:09 AM
Yes I'm with HRgiger my results show 8 slower that 7.5. But in light of edbittner's post I'm going to run some more tests over the weekend.

I'll post results next week.

Rich

Weetos
05-21-2004, 04:37 AM
makes me think that Fprime would be a better investment than LW8...

Seems like LW8 isn't much more than a pack gathering a reworked UI 7.5c and some plugins, I mean nothing has really changed in the core stuff

If one can't afford both, Fprime sounds way more interesting
Am I wrong?

Still waiting though

regards

Weetos

mattclary
05-21-2004, 06:28 AM
Personally, I think it's a revenue generator until the core can be re-written.

blabberlicious
05-21-2004, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by mattclary
Personally, I think it's a revenue generator until the core can be re-written.

Matt, I think your tattoo will probably have faded off by the time that happened :-)

mattclary
05-21-2004, 10:09 AM
That's ok, it's about time to have it touched up anyway. I like it nice and crisp! ;)

theo
05-21-2004, 12:03 PM
Seems like LW8 isn't much more than a pack gathering a reworked UI 7.5c and some plugins, I mean nothing has really changed in the core stuff

I agree in some respects- EXCEPT that the reworked dynamics system ALONE is worth the upgrade price. So, if you aren't into dynamics then you might have wanted to wait until the next LW.
I already had a lot of the tools that are now a core part of Modeller. I think now that these tools are now core then the next logical step will be advancements in the way we work with edges and subpatches.

The thing is, this is an evolutionary time for LW and I for one think the revamped approach to dynamics is a thousand percent better than in previous versions and if this is any indication of future advances then I want to be a part of it.

Sorry for getting off topic KM-

kmscottmoore
05-21-2004, 12:37 PM
To Weetos and theo,

I have FPrime, and I like it very much. It is a good product, and worth the price. Some people are using it for final renders. But, as a 1.0 release, I do not think that it is a complete replacement for LW's render engine. FPrime is a fabulous workflow enhancer. I think a more fair comparison would be viper.

So, if you're considering whether to spend the money on the LW8 upgrade or on FPrime, I would say . . . . it depends.

That is, it depends on what type of work that you do and what features are important to you.

As theo points out, there is a lot more packed into the LW 8 upgrade than the rendering part. The new dynamics are great, and much better than the old Motion Designer. I have already done one project with the new Cloth F/X that I never would have been able to do the old way. Just be prepared to spend a few hours playing around with the test scenes and all the buttons to figure out what is going on. As stated in other posts, I am not a fan of the new help system. Supposedly, there is a PDF coming, but no one knows exactly when.

There are also a bunch of new things specific to character animation, although I haven't had a chance to play with them yet. Also, I believe you can still get the DFX package if you upgrade now. (Don't quote me on this, the offer may have expired already.)

I was just trying to point out that one specific part, the "Faster Rendering" doesnt' seem to be there.

So, Weetos, my personal opinion is:

If you can only afford one, and your work tends more towards the product/architectural visualization/high resolution rendering category, then go with FPrime. The amount of time that you save in setups will make you wonder how you ever lived without it, even if you still use Lightwave for your final renders.

However, if your work is more in the category of animation, character work, etc., then I would go with the 8 update.

Dodgy
05-21-2004, 12:50 PM
I'd back KSM above.
Presumably the renderer is faster in certain areas, and it may be bug fixes which have slowed things down in others. If Ed got such a remarkable speed increase he must have been using all the stuff which was optimized more under 8.

Fprime is all round more generally faster, but doesn't render any of the volumetrics or effects, just any polys and their textures (including reflection + refraction etc, but no shaders) in any lighting conditions (point to area) so if you don't use any of the fancy stuff, Fprime is your man. You could of course then comp in anything it doesn't render by rendering just those elements in LW's own. Well worth it's price IMHO

Lw's upgrade is mostly animation driven, and is well worth it's upgrade price in those areas.

So it's up to you.

theo
05-21-2004, 01:19 PM
The two posts above are pretty much right on and it looks as though the LW crowd is coming to a sort of unofficial stance on LW8, I would include myself in this crowd.

I don't want to make a statement that will affect Newtek negatively (because they are a great company) but I will say this if you need dynamics and animation power upgrade now, it's money well spent. As an aside guys, there is a little tool in the Layout side that is making my life so much easier and it is the TCB path tool- awesome on-the-fly timesaver.

Weetos
05-21-2004, 02:35 PM
thanks all you guys for your replies

just to make it clear : I didn't mean to be negative against lw8, I just wanna make sure the eight update is what I need as long as I'm not much into animation. Maybe those new improvements and tools is the way to step forward and learn new things (motion designer has never been a friend of mine ;)) though I'd have appreciated rendering improvements as well, a faster renderer wouldn't have hurt at all

I think I'm going to first go for Fprime as it seems to be a must-have tool, and it sounds like I won't regret it (actually the instant preview thing sounds really great for tweaking things up). I just hope support for shaders and stuff will come out soon

Thank you KM for your explanations/opinion, you made it clear !

My apologies if this went off-topic

Regards

Weetos

wacom
05-21-2004, 04:09 PM
Hey, I'm an FPrime fan, but be careful before you make up your mind. You might want to wait for the demos of each to do that. Things like translate plus intergration are make'n my life way easier in 8. There are a lot of little things to like about it.

Still...I've done some renders that I would have sent to a netrender farm with FPrime...and it's soooo easy to setup things now that I'll never go back.

Tough choices ahead for you!