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anakranism
05-04-2004, 11:31 PM
the much anticipated and long awaited new version of lightwave arrived at my door last saturday. i guess i'm a dreamer, but i had hoped that newtek would change their mind and offer us loyalist, who "pre-purchased" the upgrade back in november (back when it was supposed to arrive by the end of december...before it was supposed to arrive in february or march, and way before it's final, triumphant arrival in may), a reference book.

that is to say, i wanted a book, i want a book, and i will continue to want a book. after all, i have been very patient. of course, newtek maintains that the upgrade was free, and what i was really purchasing was DFX+(i'm afraid i still don't understand how something i paid $500 for is "free").

this is the first software purchase i've ever made where there isn't any printed reference book included in the package. the truth is that i find the notion of not including a printed reference book with the cd to be unconscionable. for a beginner like me, the reference book is essential. reading off of a monitor just isn't the same. not to mention the fact that going to the new "virtual book" totally screws up work flow.

i guess what really bugs me is the fact that even the cartoon character on the front page of the new electronic documentation HAS A BOOK. and if you look really closely at his expression, you see him looking back at you reproachfully, as if to say "foo, why don't you have a book?" "i have a book. why don't you have a book?" "man it's great having a book!"

i don't think that i should have to pay $100 for a reference book on software that i've already paid $500. i would gladly trade in my uv editpro (a $100 value according to newtek), for a book.

am i alone in these feelings?

pauland
05-05-2004, 01:20 AM
That's the way it is. That was the pre-release deal. Go and buy one of the LW8 books about to hit the market.

Newtek isn't alone in not supplying paper manuals, and it was specifically stated that this would be the case in the pre-release deal. If the manual is such a problem you should have waited.

The DFX software that you received is worth rather more than the manual, I think.

Paul

Chuck
05-05-2004, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by anakranism
newtek maintains that the upgrade was free, and what i was really purchasing was DFX+(i'm afraid i still don't understand how something i paid $500 for is "free").

If you were already an owner of LightWave [7.5], and you purchased the DFX+ or REALVIZ special offer as a LightWave [8] preorder, then what NewTek maintains is that you purchased the LightWave [8] Electronic Upgrade Pack, a $495 value that is now an active SKU on our product list, and received DFX+ free. Please note, NewTek did not receive DFX+ or Interactive Studio free and the cost of including either of these was substantially more than if we had provided manuals, not to mention that the value is more than $1700 in the case of DFX+ and $1500 in the case of the REALVIZ bundle.

For owners of [6.5] or earlier who purchased a LightWave [7.5] upgrade with DFX+ or with REALVIZ, the LightWave [8] upgrade that they subsequently receive is indeed considered free.

It makes our communications a little awkward sometimes, but we have tried to make sure we always refer to both LightWave [8] "pre-orders and free upgrades" when discussing the upgrades and the offers.

JamesCurtis
05-05-2004, 10:04 AM
Hey Chuck,

I purchased my LW 6.xx to LW7.5 upgrade just after the anouncement that LW8 would be a free upgrade when released. My question isn't with the manual issue but in regards to the DFX+ program offer. I didn't get the DFX+ thing because it wasn't yet offered as part of any deal when I ordered my copy from Safe Harbor. [by probably no more than a few weeks or less]

I don't know about anyone else out there, but I feel like I'm the only guy on Earth that didn't get DFX+. If so, I feel really left out!!

But I'll say this, LW8 is definately nice!!!

Any possibility of me also getting the DFX+ program??

byte_fx
05-05-2004, 11:17 AM
I really can't understand the desire for a manual.

For one thing they're huge and have no chance of laying flat on your desk - or even staying open to a particular page.

The .pdf manual that came with 7.x has everything in the book all indexed and searchable. It stays open on your desktop to the page you selected so you switch back and forth with a mouse click. Add to that the 80- mb html manual that was a free sowlnoad and you're as set as you can be w/o aftermarket items.

Since I still haven' receuved 8 I assume it's electronic manuals or as good as better. Altogether that's the way to go imho.

Also - since you mentioned it - I wish the freebie was something like RealFlow. It would have been more useful to me. Doubt I'll even bother installing dfx+

Wanna trade a virgin RealFlow for a virgin dfx+ ? :smile:

byte_fx

Signal to Noise
05-05-2004, 12:06 PM
The [8] on-line documentation is missing a lot of stuff. If you notice something absent please contribute to this thread. (http://vbulletin.newtek.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22281) . Also, I'm hoping if NewTek listens and reads that thread they will also ensure the future hardcopy manual will be more accurate and complete.

Cheers!

fourd
05-05-2004, 12:32 PM
Try paying 3500 for max, then having to fork out another 100 for the manuals! They been doing that for a while now...boo on Discreet.

bluehand
05-05-2004, 02:56 PM
I can't seem to locate the pdf of the manual for LW8. I know it has that online help thing. But, I still like a pdf of the actual manual, it's a great way to search quickly. Anyone know where the pdf is?

anakranism
05-05-2004, 04:59 PM
it isn't in pdf form. the documentation was done in flash. it's found under help. boy i guess nobody else really misses the book at all!

Kurtis
05-05-2004, 05:05 PM
bluehand,

If you would like to do a search of the Help System, you can do so. Click on the Search button at the top left. The entire thing is keyword searchable, and I do mean entire. You will want to be as specific as possible with the terms you use though.

pauland
05-05-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by anakranism
i guess nobody else really misses the book at all!
I'd love to have the books, but it wasn't part of the deal. I chose to go for online docs + DFX, rather than the manuals, just like you did.

Paul

Silkrooster
05-05-2004, 07:01 PM
There is nothing like a manual. Taking it to a nice comfortable chair and just read for hours. On the other hand when working on the computer it is also nice to have a searchable reference to use. Nice job Newtek. I see some pages seam to be a little shy on detail, but I beleive your on the right track. I definately enjoyed the free programs that Newtek has graciously provided. I miss the manual, however since I recall Newteks decision to sell the manual later. I am able to wait for it to be printed and become available. It must be one monster of a manual to be $100.00 but if it has everything that should be in there, then it will be worth it. I am hoping Newtek will place several tutorials and very detailed explanations of how and why things need to be done a certain way.

MysticMage
05-13-2004, 09:51 PM
For some of us out there we depend on the book as we have tiny tiny screens, and your right he does have that look on his face. So for those of us who can't afford the space or the money for a second monitor, it means we need the book open to increase our workflow for whatever project we are working on.
Also I know a few people who have visual disabilities, but have been doing digital work for the better half of the life successfuly thanks to the reference manual.


So I want a book NOW.

WizCraker
05-14-2004, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by MysticMage
So I want a book NOW.

So buy one.

Signal to Noise
05-14-2004, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by MysticMage
For some of us out there we depend on the book as we have tiny tiny screens, ...
So I want a book NOW.

Two things:

1. Anyone doing CG need to have as big a monitor (if not dual set-up) as they can afford! Minimum 19" imo.

2. Books. Take your pick:

link to knowledge (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=blended&field-keywords=lightwave%208&pg=1/ref=s_b_xs_ap_pp/102-9300373-0276955)

:rolleyes:

sfriedberg
05-14-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by anakranism
it isn't in pdf form. the documentation was done in flash. it's found under help. boy i guess nobody else really misses the book at all!

No, anakranism, I miss the book. I'd happily settle for the PDF version of the book. I don't care for the on-line help system at all, and would much prefer a PDF.

Maimo
05-17-2004, 03:32 PM
I too am a bit dissapointed in the flash docs ive not head to many successfull serches. I was hoping on a replica PDF version of the REAL printed manual. then i could at liest print the pages i like. My plan was to see how much i could get kinko's to print the a few choice sections. If the printed manual is like this Flash version i wouldnt wat to pay $100 at all.

Is it that the manual isnt ready yet? if so when it does ship will we be able to get a PDF copy?

Kurtis
05-17-2004, 03:47 PM
This has been posted by Chuck in a few other threads, but I know it can be hard to keep up with them all.


Bear in mind that the Help File is a complete reference manual. When the version of the docs that we are preparing for print is complete, it will be supplied in PDF format as well.

Maimo
05-17-2004, 05:36 PM
thanx, your right, it's hard to keep up with all the bitching that goes on here :)

inquisitive
05-24-2004, 03:28 AM
hehe so do we have a date when the PDF will be ready?

UnCommonGrafx
05-24-2004, 06:05 AM
I bet they will be ready when they finally release [8]; right now it's in pre-release status, I believe it could be termed.

Tips for the Flash Help:
- "Open Frame in another Window or Tab" is your friend.
- Most of the new stuff is rather well documented. And an easy print away.
- Print any and all of the new stuff as it makes great road trip reading.

To the crew making the Help document, could you please make it so that it will print subheadings, as well. Kind of a bummer when wanting to print multiple levels of a heavy topic. LScript readily comes to mind.

Turner
05-24-2004, 03:45 PM
"Bear in mind that the Help File is a complete reference manual."

Of course it is!

But is sure falls short of being a "help" file.

What I need is instructions, not definitions. Maybe I looked in the wrong places, but I want to know HOW to use the new physics stuff, and I can't find anything other than descriptive text - and it's incomplete, at that.

I'm sure there are people much more familiar with LW than I am; why is it, though, that the Manual is going to be different than the Help file?

Hopefully it'll be more thorough; for now I guess I'll have to stick to Robohelp and trial-and-error.

byte_fx
05-24-2004, 05:20 PM
Kurtis - hanks for the info on the forthcoming .pdf - looking forward to it becoming available.

byte_fx