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View Full Version : LW7.5c is comming soon



Valter
03-21-2003, 06:35 PM
I heard about new release of lw cooming soon with all bugs repaired.

I don't doubt, but is this a speculation or true??

later

hrgiger
03-21-2003, 09:13 PM
Well, who did you hear this from? A man dressed in a hospital gown directing traffic or actually somebody who works at Newtek? Because that might be able to answer your question right there.

mix
03-22-2003, 07:49 PM
I 'v read on a plugin developers site, the guy who made RB rounder and parenter, that he wrote newtek concerning problems with the latest LWpatch, and that the reply was there should be an other patch to fix issuse with the patch, you still with me.
Lets hope the patch isn't LW8:confused:

faulknermano
03-22-2003, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by mix
I 'v read on a plugin developers site, the guy who made RB rounder and parenter, that he wrote newtek concerning problems with the latest LWpatch, and that the reply was there should be an other patch to fix issuse with the patch, you still with me.
Lets hope the patch isn't LW8:confused:

that would be Richard Brak. didnt deuce say something simliar over at the lw3d-disc group? hmm... bob says "he hopes." which means _he_ is ready. but that doesnt mean everybody else in the dev team is.

mattc
03-23-2003, 10:24 AM
Faulknermano,

Deuce did indeed say something to that effect.....but it was on the main LW list..

Message reproduced below.



Not the 'use' of LightWave as the charter states.

But fine -- NewTek is hiring.

The main issue that I responded about was the timeline on 7.5c being next year.

That isnt' going to happen. It's close to release now.


~~Deuce


Kind Regards
Matt

hrgiger
03-23-2003, 11:57 AM
You mean there's actually a credible source of some kind? :eek:

All these rumors that start here very rarely have any actual fact behind them, it just surprises me when they do.

Lynx3d
03-23-2003, 12:31 PM
What Bob Jood said in the mailing list was:


On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:06:07 -0800, webmaster wrote:
>_i have it and been tinkering with it and there are a few kinks in the code
>_but i am determined to get it running somehow thanks any idea when the ls
>_ver 2.6.1 _might be released ??????



My hope is before the end of March.


Render me gone, |||
Bob ^(===)^
-------------------------------oOO--(_)--OOo-------------------------------
I'm too disgusted with the world to have a pithy tag line just now...

Released...but then again i don't think this necessarily means LW 7.5c, so i still don't think they will release it THAT soon (if they ever do)
But we'll see of course.

Freak
03-23-2003, 04:10 PM
Yes 7.5c will be released sooner than later.......

Can i please plead to the Beta team.......

I'd rather wait the extra month and have it actually fix some problems, and have it tested with 3rd party plugins and lscripts.

Then for it to be released and cause the kind of whinging that 7.5b caused.

Don't make the same mistake twice!!

pixelmonk
03-24-2003, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by Freak
Yes 7.5c will be released sooner than later.......

Can i please plead to the Beta team.......

I'd rather wait the extra month and have it actually fix some problems, and have it tested with 3rd party plugins and lscripts.

Then for it to be released and cause the kind of whinging that 7.5b caused.

Don't make the same mistake twice!!

Unfortunately not all plugins.. or probably even half can be tested by a limited beta team. I'm not sure how many testers or who the testers are. My gut feeling (no.. no rumor talk), is that the beta testing structure could be the cause of some of the problems. Maybe there's not a wide range of testers.. maybe there isn't enough testers. Large studios with ties to Newtek may not have the time to beta every aspect of LW. Some people use only some portions of Lightwave based on job requirements. Who knows? Again, this isn't something I "heard".. it's just a gut feeling. Or maybe that's last night's pizza. Dunno. :D

Lynx3d
03-24-2003, 08:16 AM
I'd also like to know how beta testing at Newtek works...
i heard discreet has pretty strict conditions, you need to report in regular intervals etc...
On the other side Maxon just gives the Beta to almost any Artist etc. they think could help them, and then hope they actually do help :D (i know a few....they can just download the newest build and don't have any pressure to report)

But of course all Bet testers mustn't tell anything to the public before release...it's futile asking them :D

manfriday
03-24-2003, 11:30 AM
there must be a 7.5c comming cause that is what Larry is using for his demo video for the ortho plugin pack.
unless he has alot of time on his hands and just created an elaborate hoax to fool us.
;)

Jason

riki
03-24-2003, 04:53 PM
Are you talking about larry Shultz?? haven't seen him around much lately.

manfriday
03-24-2003, 05:18 PM
yeah, LArry Shultz. he did a demo/tutorial video for the irrational orthopedic plugins (which looks SWEET).
In that demo he was using lightwave 7.5c

Freak
03-24-2003, 05:47 PM
Nobody denies 75c is on it's way....
Deuce said sooner, rather than later.....

NT do have a fairly wide, and varied beta team.
But yes i agree with Pixelmonk....

In a sense you are better off letting some newbie members and technical or programmers be on the beta team...
rather than major studios and talented artists.. (weird i know)

I know some current Beta testers, and they spent too much time playing with splinemate, rather than looking for bugs IMO...

Beta testing, will never remove all the bugs, it needs to be released to the wider public, for a more general beta test...
to remove quite a few of them....

So many setups, hardware configurations, software setups....
It's impossible to get it 100% right...

But i do believe that more could be done, to test it with the major
Lscripts and plugins being used.

The Mac version being pulled is also fairly bad for a new beta
team, i was hoping that Deuce was going to be a better team leader than past beta teams.

A major raytracing bug with Sasquatch, is not really acceptable...
Considering that Saslite is actually included with LW.
And is our only choice for fur and hair.
(This also affects many other plugins)

I think the Rendernode, most likely stole much of the attention
and time during this release. It's being used by almost nobody,
and should of been left until LW8.

CIM was right to attack NT over the compiled Lscripts bug....
Treecage or any useful large compiled Lscript, was a really obvious bug.....

It means nobody tested a single commonly used compiled Lscript through the beta team....That is not acceptable.

Most major plugin makers for LW, should be a part of the beta team. So they can be aware before the release, if there are to be problems with plugins etc...

Bugs are a part of life, and they will always appear.....

But when the general public can find bugs in minutes, that the beta team can't find in months... Something is wrong!!!!

It also seems we tried to fix some of Joe Alters, LW hassles,
and broke a hell of a lot of other stuff instead.

I'd like a sticky Bug thread to be placed on these forums,
Better yet we should have a BUG forum.

This way bugs can be tracked and traced, and we can make sure they are implemented in future revisions.

We can spend time looking for workarounds, rather than spending days wondering if it's just stupidity or an actual bug.

Thats why i'd like people to mention actual bugs, rather than complaining how NT is slow or crap....

I think Discreet have the worst beta teams on the planet!
I think NT have the ability to be much better than they are showing currently.

Public Betas are a great idea. I just wish NT would tell people
that they are a member, before releasing it as a production ready application. :)

I'd prefer LW 7.5c to be as stable as 7.5 and not 7.5b....

Rant Mode: Off

riki
03-24-2003, 06:27 PM
It's not just about finding bugs, making lists or reporting bugs. We can report bugs till the cows come home, but it amounts to zilch if nothing is done to fix those bugs.

It's even worse if a new release comes out with bugs in features that previously worked fine.

Newtek needs to get anal and come up with a methodical approach to reporting and dealing with bugs.

BTW does anyone know how to spell 'Subdivision'??

http://www.suture.net/files/0001.gif

It's should be about taking pride in your work and making sure that things are done properly.

Valter
03-24-2003, 08:32 PM
I really agree with FREAK

something is very wrong in Newtek specificaly with LW.

really is very strange raytrace with saslite bug not have been find out before release.

later

Freak
03-24-2003, 10:50 PM
Riki Wrote:
It's even worse if a new release comes out with bugs in features that previously worked fine.

Well that can't really be avoided.
Bugs will always exist, humans are flawed, humans make 3D software, 3D software is flawed.

When you fix one bug, you can usually bet you will create 3 more as a consequence.

Testing every inch of LW and every option and combination of options at the same time is almost impossible..

You will always release new bugs, after fixing old ones...
That's how it works.

The word here is "Harm Minimization"

NT have had a hard year, The old staff just left us in the lurch...
You can't have that happen, without NT having some grief as a result.

So if a bug existed in Motion Designer, and the programmer of MD was no longer available. It would lead us to our current situation. "being up **** creek without a paddle"

So i do have faith that with a new bunch of programmers
and a little time, LW8 and NT will be back to their best.
We must be patient. But at the same time the clock is ticking.

Buglist:

By having a publically listed bug-list i believe this is the best method to reducing the problem, and at the very least .
a good first step.

Despite most software companies thinking a public bug list, can hurt their reputation. It actually only improves the customer relationships. The good far outweighs the bad.
(We have a feature request forum already)

It's a simple thing, that does not cost money, that can have a positive affect on NT, LW and it's users.

It should of been done a long time back...
Don't make me ask again!!!!! :)

I will start lobbying congress if i have too... :)

riki
03-24-2003, 11:30 PM
How many people does it take to change a lightbulb?

Ok you need 20 people to report that the bulb is broken, you need 2 custommer service reps to handle the reports. You need 10 beta testers to check to see if the bulb is in fact broken. You need a production assistant to analysis their reports and pass on recommendations to the development team.

Eventually we get back to the beta testers, back to the service reps, and back to custommer only to find that a fuse has blown during the installation process.

"Of course the Lightbulb 7.5c has to want to change, dosen't it!" :-)

faulknermano
03-24-2003, 11:47 PM
There should be an active mailing list / forum on bugs, for sure. if you look at the lscript mailing list, bugs are reported and then subsequently confirmed by other members of the list. bob has established a system by which he can only process bugs that have been confirmed... then he confirms it for himself.

of course, there is no substitute for active participation for the one doing the bug-fixing. in this case, bob is, more often than not, on top of the situation and always helping. but you have to understand as well the the lscript mailing list (at least those active), is very small compared to lw users as a whole.

Freak
03-25-2003, 02:16 AM
Yep Faulkermano you are correct:

The Lscript list is a perfect example,
You report a bug with BUG in the title:

Others either confirm or deny and Bob will check the outcome
and even adds it to known bugs list on his website.

So the next time i'm confronted with a possible bug, i go straight to Bobs site look at known problems, and decide i'm not just a stupid idiot, and it's not just me. Saving me hours of wondering,
and trying to fix it. I know ahead of time, things to avoid.

I respect honesty over silence, i think most do.

The only downside that i can see, is if you have 1000's of bugs
and you have no intention of fixing them. Then we should not have public bug list (hmmmmm) perhaps.

It can only help people like Deuce, minimize the crap and filter the real bugs, from the clueless people who just write Bug everytime
they have a problem.

This way the community would confirm or deny bugs...
And leave NT more time to actually fix them.

The other benefit for NT... It minimizes the chance for 59 paranoid alarmists ranting about non-existant bugs in every possible forum when 7.5c is released. Headlines, NT could do without with the next release.

I'd think it would be better from a marketing perspective
to contain the fire to just one room. Rather then allow it's
burn out of control everywhere.

Anyway, it's one suggestion to help ease the problem in the future.

riki
03-25-2003, 02:32 AM
:-) Yeah that's really going to happen.

Chuck
03-25-2003, 11:30 AM
One should note that the support areas are in fact intended to deal with bugs and difficulties in the software. That is their purpose. That's why "Tips and Techniques" and "Feature Requests" are separate sections - so that people can address "how to do" issues and feature requests separately from the areas intended for working on actual problems in the product.

Using the term "Bug" in the message title if you think you have discovered a bug is very certainly a good idea; by all means, folks should do so, and the appropriate NewTek staff can locate and follow-up such issues.

We have in fact posted lists of known problems in the past, and I know of no reason why we could not make a more consistent practice of that, most likely in both the forum and in our online FAQs, as those are redeveloped. I would defer to the product teams for a decision on that. I would note that while this has many aspects that make it worthwhile, among them would not be that it will reduce the number of posts of bugs that are not in fact bugs. No amount of correct information posted to any internet resource reduces the volume of posting of inaccurate information. It's a law of digital nature.

It is certainly true that a great many changes have gone on in our development of LightWave 3D, and some of these changes did lead to some difficulties in the current release, particularly on the Mac side. We're making adjustments to address the deficiencies that crept into the process this time around, but I think the most important change is simply that all NewTek software development will be overseen by Dr. Andrew Cross, and we are now at the point where all our development teams can be implementing the processes we've prototyped in the video development team, and which have proven very successful there.

Valter
03-26-2003, 09:31 AM
Thanks Chuck for reply.

I really hope that brilliant Andrew Cross look with good eyes ours request about lw8.

later

Freak
03-26-2003, 07:41 PM
Chuck Wrote:

I would note that while this has many aspects that make it worthwhile, among them would not be that it will reduce the number of posts of bugs that are not in fact bugs. No amount of correct information posted to any internet resource reduces the volume of posting of inaccurate information. It's a law of digital nature.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for response as usual Chuck, it's nice to know that you do hear our concerns, and it shows that at the very NT aren't afraid to talk publically, about problems, ideas and suggestions.

In regards to your law of digital nature, i agree....
But laws are designed to be broken..
Or at least try and bend them to suit your needs. :)

If you look at the feature request list as an example.
Less people post feature requests on the general disussion,
list, because you have a seperate forum for their needs.

Many people visit the feature request forum, to actually help people, who are asking for new features.... (But most of the feature requests are already implemented anyway) It just takes
a community member to tell them how to do it.

What this means for NT, is that they only need to skim the feature requests, because others have already dismissed the idea, or agree very much with the request.

If you just had an email address [email protected]
Most of your time would invlove telling people to RTM, as the feature already exists.

Out of the 100 or so people claiming to have major bugs, only maybe 10 are going to be actual bugs. So if those 100 people
posted to the bug forum. The community would very quickly confrim the actual 10 bugs, the community would also tell the other 90 paranoid alarmists, to think before posting non existant bugs. This would save Deuce from reading and replying to 90 peoples stupidity shortcomings. :)

It would also cause people who are trying to cause damage to NT's reputation, to be asked nicely to post their message to the bug forum, rather than posting 10 new posts on CGTalk without ever actually mentioning a single bug.

This is not a good thing! (and your competitors know it)

Newbie users who are just thinking of buying LW, will be quickly put off, when they see 7.5b BUG listed in every thread, in every forum, in every niche of the forum.

Having them contained to one forum, (as much as one can)
seems like a smart move from a marketing POV.
"Harm Minimization" :)

I think you would find that people would start using a methodical approach to reporting bugs, if NT let them.

Worley gives Tshirts away to bug finders.
It's a really smart way of making people forget about the bug, and making them happy that they are getting a free t-shirt, instead. (but i don't think you even need to go that far)

Simply putting Bug: in General Discussions forum, would not do the same thing,

It would also not really help if you were looking for a page that contained a bug list (like Bobs page) as you would have to search for every message scattered through the whole of NT's forums
with BUG in the title.

And i'm more likely to just post a Bug Rant instead of searching through 10 differen't forums looking for one particlar bug.

The whole idea, is i spend less time looking and more time knowing.

Anyway, i didn't mean to harp on the subject......
I have made my appeal to the UN.

Thanks again for your reply.

Tom Speed
03-27-2003, 03:49 PM
Hi Chuck,

I'd just like to comment on the subject of bug reports. I don't know if you follow Bob Hoods work on LScript that closely, but during development of v2.6, Bob kept an updated list of known bugs from previous versions online. He then made it known to the mailing list how to report a bug and how someone could confirm it.

There were definately less 'endless' threads about known & unknown bugs using this system. We all knew to check the known bugs list before even bothering Bob. We also knew that these bugs would be addressed before the new release.

I think you should consider doing something similar! :)

Cya!
Tom

faulknermano
03-27-2003, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Tom Speed
We all knew to check the known bugs list before even bothering Bob.

yeah... dont you dare bother the lscript god with stupid uninformed comments. :D that's why i love the lscript mailing list. less b.s. :D

Tom Speed
03-27-2003, 07:16 PM
Sorry!

Next time I won't skim through threads :)

Would I like a list of known bugs are in LW?...Yes please!

Do NT want to supply such a list and chance other parties thinking LW is bad? No.....understandable from marketing point of view.

Choice is your 'Users' or 'other parties'. If other people can't understand LW has bugs like any other program on the planet, and base a purchase decision on a bugs list........say no more :)

cya!
Tom