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View Full Version : Minor Lightwave 8 workflow downgrade



Carm3D
05-03-2004, 06:29 PM
I noticed today that was having to do extra steps today while modeling and I checked in 7.5 and sure enough, it's different.

Select some points, hit p to make a polygon. The points are still selected.

In 7.5, the points auto de-select. In LW8, I gotta take another step and draw a lasso around the points or click on the blank area to de-select them before I can proceed.

prospector
05-03-2004, 06:46 PM
Yea that and I found another minor teeth gnashing setback.

That little button in the corner of the windows.

because I am so used to LW for the last umpteen years of being a zoom button that may hand automatically goes to the corner.

ARRGGGGG single window now.........

Maby they can put it in the middle of each window bar and not on the corner for 8.5
but then I'll probably get use to it being in the new spot and if they change it, I will have to relearn all over.

I guess until I get use to this way, I'll just keep yelling at the monitor to do what I want and not what IT wants.

I think there are some coders in Newtek that may take joy in changing things just when we get use to 1 way.:D

Kinda like going into a blind persons 20 year live in home and moving furnature around.

I just know they are there in the offices, laughing.:D

Carm3D
05-03-2004, 07:01 PM
I like that little button. :)

ACLOBO
05-03-2004, 07:06 PM
I don't use that button - it is there for people on laptops. I use the "Ins or ZERO key" on the number pad to get a full screen.

Yeah the placement will take some getting used to - I am still trying to find where they put the hypervoxel stuff in [8]. While I am happy about getting a new upgrade with new features, it does seem that some things are amiss. We have new improved workflow over all, but some nasty bugs and some other little things that interrupt our respective trains of thought...

Hopefully there will be an 8.1 patch upon "official" release.

-Adrian

bloontz
05-03-2004, 07:10 PM
You can also hit the slash key to deselect point or polys, that can save some mousing sometimes.

mkiii
05-03-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
I noticed today that was having to do extra steps today while modeling and I checked in 7.5 and sure enough, it's different.

Select some points, hit p to make a polygon. The points are still selected.

In 7.5, the points auto de-select. In LW8, I gotta take another step and draw a lasso around the points or click on the blank area to de-select them before I can proceed.

As BV pointed out in another post - that new make polygon tool is broken. You would be advised to swap it for the old version that is still included until they fix it (it can crash modeler)

The default tool is Make Poly & is in the Modeler Tools section of the Keyboard Map list. The original version is Make Polygon & is in the Create section. Just swap the assignment for the letter p & you're off.

meatycheesyboy
05-03-2004, 10:51 PM
Something I noticed, when you have a tool selected in modeler and you press the spacebar, it drops the tool just like it always has, unless that tool is the Volume selection tool, in that case, the spacebar does nothing.

Guess its a good thing I rarely use the volume selction.

ACLOBO
05-03-2004, 11:58 PM
While I have been tinkering with [8] and enjoying some of the new things. I have to edit my overall first impression - which was totall favorable for one that is a little more even keeled....

Seems that [8] has a lot of cool stuff, but there are definitely some big holes in it... Bugs, interface tweaks that seem to have been changed for no good reason - or some of the minor workflow problems that others have mentioned.

Still, [8] seems like a pretty nice upgrade. However, it is starting to have that "rushed" feel to it. Given Newtek's situation with the whole developer debacle, I can sympathize... However, that doesn't make me feel completely and totally satisfied about what [8] is at the moment.

I figure the x.1 patch will hopefully address the issues that abound. Hopefully it will be available by the time the official release happens.

-Adrian

:confused:

Carm3D
05-04-2004, 03:18 AM
Thanks for the heads-up mkii. 8 hasn't crashed on me yet, but Make Polygon does de-select the points when it's done, which will be a time-saver!

KillMe
05-04-2004, 04:42 AM
thats DI power tool make poly its always done that =/ well originally it switched you over to poly mode =/ but yeah i hope they fix it to drop the point selection

on the upside it worsk in sysmetry mode and is pretty good about guessing the point order when you jsut lasso a load of points

TyVole
05-04-2004, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by prospector
Yea that and I found another minor teeth gnashing setback.

That little button in the corner of the windows.

because I am so used to LW for the last umpteen years of being a zoom button that may hand automatically goes to the corner.

ARRGGGGG single window now.........



What's worse is that it resets your viewport settings (e.g., grid, subpatch cage, etc.) Very annoying.

Skonk
05-04-2004, 05:54 AM
Originally posted by TyVole
What's worse is that it resets your viewport settings (e.g., grid, subpatch cage, etc.) Very annoying.

It shouldn't, doesn't do that for me, works fine.

mkiii
05-04-2004, 06:19 AM
I've noticed that some things get randomly reset now and again, such as the default line colour (a new addition to the display options panel), which is a bit annoying.

Oh & Carm.... that default make Poly tool *does* have a config panel (along with some other tools) in one of the main menus... Modeler Configs or similar. Sorry I don't have 8 in front of me right now.... and there does appear to be an option in there to turn off points, but it doesn't work at the moment.

BV says that it will let you select points out of order!? to create a poly, so may be handy when it does get fixed.

theo
05-04-2004, 07:26 AM
Posted By TyVole
What's worse is that it resets your viewport settings (e.g., grid, subpatch cage, etc.) Very annoying.

Works fine for me as well. Could be the color of your work area- I find walls that have too much vermillion tend to disrupt the harmonic attributes of viewportian geometrics.:D

This extra step required just to make a poly is pretty ridiculous to be quite frank. And this needs to be fixed IMMEDIATELY. To be required to deselect a point chain after applying a poly is a huge efficiency killer. This is so elementary that it surprises me that it got past QC- there should be an option at the very least to turn this off as it is useful in some circumstances- BUT NOT IN POLY-BUILDING!

theo
05-04-2004, 07:34 AM
Ooooooh guys- I feel about 3 inches tall about now- MKii is right, in the Edit/Edit Modeler Tools/Make Poly check "switch to poly mode".

I have been several hours poly-building with points and had no idea this option was available..... AAAUAUUUGHGHGHAUAHGH!!!!

Sorry Newt Devers- I take back the tongue-lashing and may the fleas of a thousand camels infest my imaginary head for a millisecond.

anieves
05-04-2004, 07:36 AM
the "DI tools" need some fine tunning overall.

Cut doesn't have a cancel button, kinda annoying; you should be able to move the view ports like you can with bandsaw also.

Some of the tools don't work properly with 2 or more layers on at the same time. etc.

I'm sure NT is aware of this and I hope they get fixed in the next point release.

Chazz
05-04-2004, 07:45 AM
Evasion made a freebie plugin called 'Speedy Modeling' that mimics the behavior of Make Molygon, but let's you select points out of order and can keep new poly normals facing the right way. I remapped it to my 'p' key and never looked back. It also de-selects points when you're done.

Can't seem to find the link on their site anywhere, but the file is called 'speedy.p' if someone was searching the web for it.

Yog
05-04-2004, 08:12 AM
I've been hit hard with the make polygon tool most of the day. It was getting REALLY anoying, glad there's an alternative. But why make the different way of working the default ?

Another different thing that has been tripping me up all day is that Newtek have finally decided to standardise the undo, cut,copy,paste commands with other software (Ctrl key + z,x,c, or v). I've thought of switching them back to the old LW defaults, but as I use so many other programs these days the standadisation is probably a good thing, so I'm living with it. But after 7 years of ingrained motion, by god it's hard ;)

Anyone else notice Open-GL weirdness in LW8.
I'm working from CAD drawings as reference, so have Autocad open elsewhere. The only problem is every time I flip over to Acad, the flip back to LW, all the viewports are blank until I pan/zoom in each of the viewports individually.

Damn, this new way of working is slow :rolleyes:

theo
05-04-2004, 08:33 AM
Actually Mkii the modeller options panel WILL NOT- repeat- WILL NOT allow for deselecting of poly-points.

Crud- I will now revert back to my inital post filled with angst and disgustipation.

As of this stage I know of no other way to have poly-points deselected AFTER using the make polygon command. Man this is so inefficient!!

theo
05-04-2004, 08:42 AM
I need to clarify that last post when I said there is no way to deselect poly-points after make polygon. I meant there is no way the points AUTOMATICALLY deselect after the make polygon command is run as in 7.5 and previous.

This is extremely redundant especially for guys like myself who rarely use primitives.

hrgiger
05-04-2004, 09:04 AM
God, I hate that new little button to maximize the viewport. I hit it everytime I go to zoom. Is there a way to remove it?

theo
05-04-2004, 09:48 AM
I initialy hated it HR but after about 15 hours of modelling I actually like it where it is because of it proximity to the zoom.

You have to realize that the original interface has been imprinted on your cognitive reflex so you might want to give the new interface time to do the same. Like I said, after modelling straight for several hours it does seem to fit in my intuitive pattern rather nicely.

Mikeface
05-04-2004, 09:57 AM
I'm willing to forgive the new maximize button given that I don't have to hit the space bar so many times anymore. Hooray for whoever suggested that Volume be removed from the bottom menu!

I've also noticed that Subpatch is included in the undo queue - I remember Proton posting a movie showing that it wasn't kept.

BTW - anyone know what is the correct place to raise bugs / issues such as these? Should I email Newtek direct or post on one of the forums?

theo
05-04-2004, 10:11 AM
Face- Why do you want to raise bugs?

Don't we have enough of them running around as it is? Ahh- I get it, you have stock in pest control companies... hmmmm nice idea.

Mikeface
05-04-2004, 10:14 AM
Probably a remnant of the time I spent as a software tester...

My pendantry gets out of hand sometimes :eek:

claymation
05-04-2004, 10:25 AM
maybe we should start a lw8 workflow thread to put all our discoveries. seems like we are all going to have to relearn how to do somethings and find old tools as well.

KillMe
05-04-2004, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Chazz
Evasion made a freebie plugin called 'Speedy Modeling' that mimics the behavior of Make Molygon, but let's you select points out of order and can keep new poly normals facing the right way. I remapped it to my 'p' key and never looked back. It also de-selects points when you're done.

Can't seem to find the link on their site anywhere, but the file is called 'speedy.p' if someone was searching the web for it.

do you happen to know if it works in symetry mode?

Chazz
05-04-2004, 02:15 PM
It does not.

Also, I can't get it to load in 8, so I emailed Evasion to see if they are planning a new one. No biggie, I like the way 8 makes new polys.

miguel446
05-05-2004, 09:17 AM
Originally posted by Mikeface
I've also noticed that Subpatch is included in the undo queue - I remember Proton posting a movie showing that it wasn't kept.



Deuce explained at our Users group meeting last week that they had to back out on that particular aspect as it introduced to much feature-creep. Possibly in the future, but for now it's here to stay.

M

blabberlicious
05-14-2004, 11:09 AM
Why don't we have the option of being able to see unselected Points in the Hidden Line View Mode?

Apologies if this has been answered....

nuclearchutney
05-14-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Carm3D
I noticed today that was having to do extra steps today while modeling and I checked in 7.5 and sure enough, it's different.

Select some points, hit p to make a polygon. The points are still selected.

In 7.5, the points auto de-select. In LW8, I gotta take another step and draw a lasso around the points or click on the blank area to de-select them before I can proceed.

Okay i was at the local SF user group on wednesday night and we played with the demo.

The solution is there are two ways to create polys in L8

if you look in the Hotkey shortcuts, there are 2 commands for it
one is Make Polygon, the other is Create Polygon

Make polygon leaves the points selected after creation while Create Polygon deselects the points.

I don't know why two options and i know its a frustration but remap your keys

miguel446
05-14-2004, 02:51 PM
I prefer the new Make Poly command despite the lack of a deselection of points. I would like to create an Lscript that would run Make Poly and then deselct the polygons. Unfortunately on the Mac the Command history is suspiciously absent. Instead I remapped Drop Current Tool to the left bracket key ([). Now I hit 'p' for Make Poly and then '[' to desect. A slight inefficiency, but the power of Make Poly makes it worth it.

M

KillMe
05-14-2004, 08:21 PM
i've mapped the drop current tools button to the thumb button on my mouse and taht works like a charm - no more finding blank areas on the interface etc and amkes for very fast delection of those points though i liekwise wish it jsut driopped the selection completely

not sure i could work without it that way now

bolo
05-15-2004, 04:03 AM
here is a tip from 3d world magazine:

remap the [e] key in modeler to the Drop Current Tool function. Contrary to what you'd expect, this will not drop your current tool. It will, however deselect any points or polys, thereby eliminating the need to click a blank area of the screen.

I use it , works very well

McLeft
05-15-2004, 06:41 AM
you might to use simple LScript, something like this:

@version 2.6
@warnings
@script modeler
@name Make Poly Fix

main
{
cmdseq("Make Poly");
selmode(USER);
selpoint(CLEAR);
}

//you should check exact name for "Make Poly" on Alt+F9, some posts mention "Make Polygon".

melchior_
05-15-2004, 10:46 AM
you might also want to put in
selpolygon(CLEAR);
after selmode(USER); to clear the polygon selection in McLeft's example

Karmacop
05-15-2004, 11:11 AM
McLeft's script works fine.

The old make poly didn't clear poly selection melchior_, which makes it easy to se which polygons you've just created.

I was going to try and fix this the other day but I got busy .. and didn't even know you could do that :p Well done.

chikega
05-16-2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by prospector
because I am so used to LW for the last umpteen years of being a zoom button that may hand automatically goes to the corner.

I use the keyboard shortcuts:

Alt = Rotate(tumble)
Alt + Ctrl = Dolly(zoom)
Alt + Shift = Pan

:)

Lewis
05-16-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by KillMe
i've mapped the drop current tools button to the thumb button on my mouse and taht works like a charm - no more finding blank areas on the interface etc and amkes for very fast delection of those points though i liekwise wish it jsut driopped the selection completely

not sure i could work without it that way now

Hmm this is very interesting and should be extremly usefuly but it doesn't work on my mouse drivers :(. What mouse you have ? I use Logitech Mx500 and i have 5 more buttons (other than 3 normal) but i tryed to map keys liee F10, F11 and other but in Lw it's nothing happening while keyboard shortcut works normaly. I use Lw 7.5c now but i don't belive that Lw8 changed that part of code so i guess it's mouse driver ?

blabberlicious
05-18-2004, 01:55 AM
Saving a modeller Display layout:
Why can't you overwrite or update the current display preset- like...errr. pretty much every other app that allows you to save out layouts.

Hurben
05-24-2004, 11:12 PM
In 'Edit Menu Layout' there is an option to save your workspace config.

Hurben
05-24-2004, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by McLeft
you might to use simple LScript, something like this:

@version 2.6
@warnings
@script modeler
@name Make Poly Fix

main
{
cmdseq("Make Poly");
selmode(USER);
selpoint(CLEAR);
}

//you should check exact name for "Make Poly" on Alt+F9, some posts mention "Make Polygon".

I get the error : Could not load external plugin file :(
Any help?

davx
05-25-2004, 02:59 AM
Delete all the spaces at the end of every line...

That makes it for me.

McLeft
05-25-2004, 03:30 AM
Hurben, your script file should have .ls extention.... something like makepoly_fix.ls. You probably used .p extention.

Original1
05-25-2004, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by hrgiger
God, I hate that new little button to maximize the viewport. I hit it everytime I go to zoom. Is there a way to remove it?

I never have used the Zoom button always used CTL + ALT + Mouse

blabberlicious
05-26-2004, 02:48 AM
Using the Drag Too
If I set the Falloff to POINT RADIAL, I no longer get a blue size guide as I drag RMB.

Jeeze!

Anyone else get this?